Ask a Mormon, Part 3

[Norseone]

Do you guys really have more kids than most people? or is that just a joke?

 

[bhsup]

We were killed and chased out of Ohio, Missouri and Illinois. We picked Utah because there wasn't anybody there to kill us.

Our lamentable part in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_Order

 

[downtown]

Do you guys really have more kids than most people? or is that just a joke?

We typically have larger families than the national average. This isn't because we frown on birth control (we don't)...we just take the whole "multiply and replenish the earth" this seriously.

It isn't always the case. My family isn't large.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Do you guys really have more kids than most people? or is that just a joke?

I think that LDS families are larger on average, at least in the US, but I don't have any statistics. I come from a family of 8 kids but we aren't all Mormon, and in my experience LDS Hispanic families have slightly fewer kids on average than other Hispanic families.

 

[GenMarshall]

I'd thought Hispanic familes, whether Mormon or Catholic would typcialy have a large family .

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

So would I; LDS Hispanic families are larger than most Anglo families but as far as I can tell smaller than most Hispanic ones. Again, that isn't statistics, just my impressions on my mission.

 

[Norseone]

I see...so my Mormon friends' jokes about the Mormon takeover looming on the horizon might be more than jokes...ill have to look into this

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Actually, apparently far more of our growth comes from conversions . . . but resistance is futile and all that.

 

[Murky]

What do you think of the article "Mormonism: A Racket Becomes a Religion" by Christopher Hitchens?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

What do you think of the article "Mormonism: A Racket Becomes a Religion" by Christopher Hitchens?

I read about half of it. The excerpt is very poorly, even amateurishly*, written, and he seems confused about several important facts (such as Joseph Smith not showing the plates to anyone - tell that to the 11 witnesses). All I can say is, if this guy is supposed to be the face of the "anti-God" movement, the religious need fear nothing.

*Is that a word?

 

[Elrohir]

How so? We aren't siblings in the sense that we have the same genetic parents, but that we are all spirit children of the same parents.

I dunno. It just seems like a weird idea that we're literally the children of God.

Not Adam and Eve, more like heavenly parents. In other words, they will have the same role that God the Father, and Mother, have in this . . . universe, I think, not planet. Adam and Eve were just (in some sense) the first mortal humans on this planet.

Well, I think that this universe, consisting of all the galaxies we know, have the same God. Whether there are other "universes", with their own heavenly parents, or whether that hasn't happened yet, and whether there are gods above our own, we haven't had revealed to us. As far as we are concerned only our own Heavenly Father matters.

Do you really think any human being - you, or I, or anyone really - is capable of becoming a god in the same way that Jehovah is?

 

[Ansar]

What does it mean by "Latter-Day" Saints?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I dunno. It just seems like a weird idea that we're literally the children of God.

I don't know what you mean by "weird".

Do you really think any human being - you, or I, or anyone really - is capable of becoming a god in the same way that Jehovah is?

Through God's grace, and the atonement of Christ, yes. And we aren't the only Chirstians to have thought that.

What does it mean by "Latter-Day" Saints?

We use "saint" to refer to disciples of Chirst, and members of his Church. "Latter-day" is in reference to the ancient Church, ie those of the 1st Century.

 

[Elrohir]

I don't know what you mean by "weird".

Weird as in, how are spirit children conceived and born? There are negative genetic consequences for marrying your genetic siblings; are there negative spiritual consequences for doing the same? (If not, how do you know?) The whole concept just seems weird to me. If it doesn't to you, then cool....

Through God's grace, and the atonement of Christ, yes. And we aren't the only Chirstians to have thought that.

Can you name any large group or influential Christian thinkers who thought this?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Weird as in, how are spirit children conceived and born? There are negative genetic consequences for marrying your genetic siblings; are there negative spiritual consequences for doing the same? (If not, how do you know?) The whole concept just seems weird to me. If it doesn't to you, then cool....

There clearly aren't negative consequences for marrying one's spiritual sibling, as that is the only option we have . . . it's not like there are negative recessive spiritual genes.

Can you name any large group or influential Christian thinkers who thought this?

CS Lewis, for one. He said several times in some of his books that all the Biblical references to becoming like God were not merely symbolic.

 

[Elrohir]

There clearly aren't negative consequences for marrying one's spiritual sibling, as that is the only option we have . . . it's not like there are negative recessive spiritual genes.

But you can't know that, because you've never observed the children of a marriage of two non spiritual siblings. You're speculating at best.

CS Lewis, for one. He said several times in some of his books that all the Biblical references to becoming like God were not merely symbolic.

I don't think he intended it in the sense that you're using it. I don't think he imagined humans creating universes or being worshiped. If he did, do you know where?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

But you can't know that, because you've never observed the children of a marriage of two non spiritual siblings. You're speculating at best.

I am sure that if this way is somehow flawed and God could have done it better, He would have.

I don't think he intended it in the sense that you're using it. I don't think he imagined humans creating universes or being worshiped. If he did, do you know where?

Well, first of all, I am not sure what bothers people so much about this doctrine . . . be that as it may, I am not sure what other sense he could have meant. It comes up a lot in The Screwtape Letters; I realize that not everything Screwtape said should be taken at face value, but everything he said about the ultimate fate of human souls reflected what Lewis thought. If I get a chance I will find others.

 

[Elrohir]

I am sure that if this way is somehow flawed and God could have done it better, He would have.

Why?

Well, first of all, I am not sure what bothers people so much about this doctrine . . . be that as it may, I am not sure what other sense he could have meant. It comes up a lot in The Screwtape Letters; I realize that not everything Screwtape said should be taken at face value, but everything he said about the ultimate fate of human souls reflected what Lewis thought. If I get a chance I will find others.

I think there are a couple of reasons people don't like this doctrine. First, it seems rather idolatrous to suggest that there are other gods in existence, even if you don't worship them. (Or even that there could be, even if you aren't making a definitive statement that they do) Second, I don't think anyone is really up for being a god - and I think most people realize that. I'm not god material, and no offense Eran, but I don't think you are either. Even awesome people would make crappy gods.

I've read the Screwtape Letters, and I don't recall anything in there like that....

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Why?

Because God would want what is best for us?

I think there are a couple of reasons people don't like this doctrine. First, it seems rather idolatrous to suggest that there are other gods in existence, even if you don't worship them. (Or even that there could be, even if you aren't making a definitive statement that they do)

Why was idolatry considered so bad? Because it took the focus off of God, who should be worshipped. But we would always be subordinate to God. Our greatness would come through Him.

Second, I don't think anyone is really up for being a god - and I think most people realize that. I'm not god material, and no offense Eran, but I don't think you are either. Even awesome people would make crappy gods.

God made us; are you saying He is unable to create a being that can become (at least almost) as great as Him? We are nowhere near gods now, but it is through God's power that we would hope to be. Or are we the rock so heavy He cannot exalt us?

I've read the Screwtape Letters, and I don't recall anything in there like that....

If I get a chance, I will find it. I think he mentioned something like that in the last chapter.

 

[Elrohir]

Because God would want what is best for us?

But why would He set up such a system in the first place?

Why was idolatry considered so bad? Because it took the focus off of God, who should be worshipped. But we would always be subordinate to God. Our greatness would come through Him.

But why should we worship "our" God then, if we aren't sure that He's the original? If we, as gods ourselves, would get our greatness from the Father, wouldn't Jehovah receive His greatness from the God who created Him, and so forth? Why bother with worshiping a "lower" God at all?

God made us; are you saying He is unable to create a being that can become (at least almost) as great as Him? We are nowhere near gods now, but it is through God's power that we would hope to be. Or are we the rock so heavy He cannot exalt us?

I think the idea of multiple omnipotent beings is rather contradictory. Could God do so? I dunno. Would He? Well, I see no reason to believe He would.

If I get a chance, I will find it. I think he mentioned something like that in the last chapter.

OK.