Ask a Muslim, Part II

[aneeshm]

Is paganism "evil" (or even "bad") from the Muslim point of view?

 

[Thorgalaeg]

On the plus side, it is not commonly thought of as a crusader or colonial state as are many other European states.

And which European states are considered crusaders or colonial states?

 

[Salah-Al-Din]

That said, whats your opinion about the law in France's public school. Wiki article : French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools, though i'll add this to get a better opinion 1905 French law on the separation of Church and State

Asking this because most of the debate when the law was voted was around the Hijab. Religions in France are reguarded as private affairs. They stay at home. Do you believe Religions have a room in politics and laws? Is Islam compatible with laïcity. If so, do you have any example?

Hello, Brother.

I believe that the passage of this law--which was aimed at Muslims--has added to the long list of injuries and insults incurred upon the Muslim Ummah (nation) at the hands of the Crusader states. This law angers me a great deal, and I believe that the hypocrisy of the West is fully exposed. They talk about freedom of speech...what freedom? We hear all about how religion is oppressive, but what about the secularists who enforce their ways upon others? How does a girl wearing Hijab (headscarf) affect anyone else?

The leaders of France are Munaafiqeen (hypocrites). It is yet another proof that they have declared war upon Islam, and that they seek to destroy Islam.

My heart goes out to all the brave young women in France who have risked their welfare and well-being to wear the headscarf, despite the bullying, persecution, and oppression they face at the hands of the Crusaders. They will all be remembered as heroes in the Muslim world, much like the blacks in America during the sixties who were rejected from their schools for their race. Likewise do the Muslim girls face discrimination and rejection due to their faith. They will have their reward with Allah.

Take care.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

As you know, the state of France is atheist. How can they be "crusaders"?

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Salah-Al-Din's reference to a crusader state is historical and quite anachronistic. All the world's major faiths have had their mistakes and faults. I see nothing wrong with wearing a hijab, and while such laws that prohibit it is quite discriminatory, it would be wrong to call it a complete war on Muslims. Likewise, people of other faiths experience discrimination, sometimes worse and/or systematic, in Muslim nations.

 

[Salah-Al-Din]

As you know, the state of France is atheist. How can they be "crusaders"?

They are not atheists. They are Christians who are laicists.

 

[Salah-Al-Din]

Is paganism "evil" (or even "bad") from the Muslim point of view?

Hello, Brother.

Prophet Muhammad's main message (s) to the Pre-Islamic Arabs was for them to leave paganism and come into the folds of Islam. Paganism was commonly referred to as Jahiliyyah (Ignorance).

Take care.

 

[Salah-Al-Din]

it would be wrong to call it a complete war on Muslims. Likewise, people of other faiths experience discrimination, sometimes worse and/or systematic, in Muslim nations.

Crimes have been committed on both sides. However, the crimes of the imperialistic and colonial regimes far outsurpasses any crimes of the Muslim world due to the simple fact that the one who has more power has a greater ability to do harm to the other. Life for life, there is no comparison.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

They are not atheists. They are Christians who are laicists.

Who are "they"? The République Française is not "Christian" in any way. In fact Laicist means not related to any religion, and that law you are speaking about forbids ANY religious symbol in public places. Of course you use the term "crusader" with very obvious political and propagandsistic objectives but it is not accurate and does not improve your argument in any way.

 

[skovac]

Hi, may I ask you some simple questions, just out of curiosity?
what is the opinion of Islam (or what does Koran say about):
a) contraception (pills, condoms and so...)
b) abortions
c) masturbation
No, Im not a perv, just curious because Catholic Church holds firm stands in this matters and I want to compare them.
Bye!
P.S. Salah-Al-Din, you are making a great work here

 

[GenMarshall]

Why do you use the term "Crusaders" when discribing these people? As well as "Crusader states"? Eventhough the two terms archaic that harks back to the Middle Ages.

Just wondering since I notice that term being used a lot in this thread.

 

[El_Machinae]

Sorry for the delay. I'm replying this post here by Knigh+. I cannot quote directly because the thread is locked.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4998612&postcount=500

I'm not going to address everything, because some of it has such vague language that it cannot really be debated - IMHO, some of the text can mean anything. People will read what they want to read sometimes, and there is no swaying those types of opinion.

Layers of atmosphere/space/universe/multiverse (I am not sure what is what, but the second one seems like talking about lightning and ozone layer. Or if Allah defines down as out, as up and down are arbitrary for universe, then it would be about Auroras and ionosphere, which equally fits to the second verse, but less likely. Or atmosphere is lowest layer, than system space, Kuiper belt, Oort cloud, interstellar space, intergalactic space, the place outside the universe...fits better.)

2:29 - It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; then He turned to the heaven and made them into seven firmaments. And of all things He hath perfect knowledge.
41:12 - So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.
67:3 - He Who created the seven heavens one above another: no want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (Allah) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw? 67:4 - Again turn thy vision a second time: (thy) vision will come back to thee dull and discomfited, in a state worn out. 67:5 - And We have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

This doesn't really mean anything useful, because we'll never agree on what's meant by the 'lamps' referenced. My natural reading is that he is referring to stars and shooting stars. We then get the amusing picture that Mohammed thought that shooting stars were used to protect earth against demons. Of course, because people think the Qur'an is infallible, they will not agree with this interpretation.

It should be noted that the Greeks, too, referenced the Seven Heavens in their mythos; symbolised by the Sun, Moon, and 5 visible planets.

World turns, or Tectonics

27:88 - Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, Who disposes of all things in perfect order: for He is well acquainted with all that ye do.

A similar verse is this:

If there were a Qur'an with which mountains were moved, or the earth were cloven asunder, or the dead were made to speak, (this would be the one!) But, truly, the command is with Allah in all things! Do not the Believers know, that, had Allah (so) willed, He could have guided all mankind (to the right)? But the Unbelievers,- never will disaster cease to seize them for their (ill) deeds, or to settle close to their homes, until the promise of Allah come to pass, for, verily, Allah will not fail in His promise.

I pull from that that it's impossible for anything but the will of Allah to move a mountain OR cleave the earth. That no instruction is available to do so (or the Qur'an would be it). Well, it's easy to see that this is false. We can well know that it is possible for humans to move a mountain; at least that it's technically feasible.

Sorry, I gotta go. So, only one last one.

Three embrionic stages:

39:6 - He created you (all) from a single Person: then created, of like nature, his mate; and He sent down for you eight head of cattle in pairs: He makes you, in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness. Such is Allah, your Lord and Cherisher: to Him belongs (all) dominion. There is no god but He: then how are ye turned away (from your true Centre)?

Keep in mind that people will see what they want to see. If the text had said that there were four, seven, eleven, or a thousand stages - people would be able to find them and justify the text. The truth is that there are thousands of events that occur during the development of a fetus.

Finally, I urge you to investigate Mohammed's opinion on what thunder and lightening was.

 

[Steph]

Hello, Brother.
I believe that the passage of this law--which was aimed at Muslims--has added to the long list of injuries and insults incurred upon the Muslim Ummah (nation) at the hands of the Crusader states. This law angers me a great deal, and I believe that the hypocrisy of the West is fully exposed.

The law of 1905 about separation of state and church was made at a time when muslims were very few in France, and was aimed mostly at catholics in fact.
The more recent laws (abusively called "vail law"), are just updates of this law.
I won't try to explain why they are here and what are their benefits, I don't think you could understand

 

[Steph]

Why do you use the term "Crusaders" when discribing these people? As well as "Crusader states"? Eventhough the two terms archaic that harks back to the Middle Ages.

Could it be because the muslims represented by Salah-al-Din still live in the 11th century?

 

[Zardnaar]

Question why do you regard Israel as an illegal occupying power when the lands of Israel were seized by force from the Byzantine Empire by the Muslims? I'm a history buff and have a reasonably low opinon on Islam, Judaism and Christianity as they all have commited various atocities in their histories?

America has put the boot into various Islamic countires but a few years ago the boot was on the Islamic foot (7th century AD-17th century AD give or take). and the world of Islam has been in decline since around the Siege of Vienna. The Muslim Caliph is gone forever and the industrial revolution bypassed the old power structures. Why can't Islam accept that the world has changed since the days of the Caliph?

Very few if any Christians wouyld ant the reestablishment of the christian Roman Empire and there was plenty of conflict between Muslim nations long before America was even a nation. The Muslim ideal of a pan Islamic state to me is just a dream of faded glory and the differences between cultures, geography etc would doom its reemergence even without interference form the west. Islam used to be a liberal religeon in comparision to most other religeon- 500+ years ago.

 

[knigh+]

After realizing that I was spending more time in CFC forums than on my thesis, I retired myself from some threads, including Ask a Muslim. But the quotes below required my brief return.

Speaking of Turkey I would like to know your stance on the issue of the Hagia Sophia. Cathedral turned Mosque turned museum. Would you oppose a christian praying at the Hagia Sophia, but not a Muslim, or would you oppose both?

There was an insanely active thread relevant to this topic a few months ago (I remember being online in it for an entire day with CivGeneral and Katheryn).

Hagia Sophia currently has Islamic calligraphy and christian mosaic pictures. I am not sure if there are any christians willing to pray under "There is no deity but Allah, Muhammad is his prophet". Similarly, muslims wouldn't pray facing pictures of Jesus. All of these are historical things, therefore untouchable (In Ottoman times they covered the mosaics with plaster, but those are cleaned up after becoming a museum). From prayer to prayer covering either calligraphy or pictures would be too much work (the place is big - you can fit Notre Dame cathedral or Tower of Pisa in it). Besides Istanbul has plenty of mosques and churches, so there is no need. Museum is the only logical and practical way to go.

Lets take it a step further, do you believe a Christian(or Jew, or Hindu, etc) has the right to step into a mosque and pray to God? And of course does a Muslim have the right to pray in a church/temple/etc? Or should everyone just stick to their own place of worship?

In medieval times, the Great Mosque of Damascus used to hold mass on Sundays. I personally don't see any problem with sharing a building, provided that the decorations are acceptable to adherents of each religion.

Whatever the case, the actions of a few errant Muslims cannot possibly be indicative of the faith as a whole. There are Muslims who drink alcohol, but this does not mean that Islam allows that. As for the example that you mention, which was the Hagia Sophia, this was converted into a mosque in 1453 by the Turks, but it was later restored to the Christians in 1935 and is now a Christian museum. The conversion of it into a mosque took place very late in Islamic history, nor was it done by any of the Four Rightly Guided Caliphs, who are the actual example to the Muslims.

The conversion of that church by the Turks was unjustifiable but it should be noted that the Turks and the Byzantines had been fighting for a very long time, and the Christians had committed many excesses against the Muslims as well. During the Crusades, it was the Christians who burned down mosques and converted them into churches, even forcing the Muslims to place a huge cross in their holiest place in Jerusalem. On the other hand, when Saladin (r) liberated Jerusalem, he perserved all the churches, and did not even take back the loot that the Christians had stolen from the mosques and the Muslims.

The Turks came to power after the fall of the Abuyyid Empire, the dynasty started by Saladin (r) and his family. The Christians had committed many excesses and had burned down many mosques with people inside of them, and the failure of the Abuyyids finally led to the rise of the Turks who did not respond with the kindness that the Abuyyids did. Instead, they responded to the Christians in a similar manner, and they got vengeance on the Christians.

Spoiler Salah-al-Din :

I really appreciate the shiploads of information on Islam you provide in the Ask a Muslim threads, Brother Salah-al-Din. You deliver meticulously gathered information in islamic matters. But you might not have put similar time for historical background in this occasion. Time to time you were annoyed in these threads by posts from other muslims (sometimes including myself) that gave incomplete and incorrect information. This is just like that, with roles reversed.

Turks had the kindness of Ayyubids (not Abuyyids). Most of the relevant centuries, Turkish empires ruled with total freedom of religion, as that was the muslim way (Ottoman Empire's religious rule is not representable by civ4's religious civics, because it was a Free religion with state religion). Ottoman laws were very protective of non-muslims. That was a big reason for Jews to flee Europe to the land of the (relatively) free, i.e. Ottomans. If Turks were "unkind" as you suggest, do you think Greeks (not just of Greece, but also of Anatolia) or other non-muslim citizens would have kept their religion. Turks always adhered to the Islamic tradition of "no forced conversion". Some non-muslims citizens (namely Jews, Greeks, Armenians) actually prospered significantly more than muslims. Ottomans' tolerance to other people was noted by several renaissance authors of Europe, and is described by several (non-Turkish) historians.

Back to our topic: Even before the conquest, Constantinople had a significant muslim population but no mosques. Byzantine rulers did not allow a mosque despite frequent Ottoman demands. When Mehmed II conquered the city, he preserved all churches except one. (Give the boy a break, after two years of planning he conquered a quasi-holy city of Islam, saw the largest temple he has ever seen, and decided to pledge it to his God. It is unfair to judge him by ignoring all the tolerance he and other Turkish rulers showed over centuries, just because of his ruling regarding one building) If you wish, go visit many preserved old churches in Turkey, some still holding services.

So why the bad fame, you might ask... It starts with the decentralization of Ottoman Empire in the 18th century. This gave large powers to local governors, who used this to abuse their subjects (both muslim and non-muslim). By 19th century, minorities were fighting for independence from their cruel rulers, the Turks. This had nothing to do with religion, but as usual, religion was used as a cause to rally people for war. Most of the minorities were Christian while the sultan was Muslim, so there you go. Similarly, Arabs came up with Wahabism to come out of the Ottoman caliph's jurisdiction. Turks ruled non-muslims harmoniously for some 7 centuries, then mismanaged one, and totally screwed up one (and then did ok in the last century). Unfortunately, people remember the screwed up bit more.

Ok, enough cluttering the Ask a Muslim thread with a topic whose proper place is the first of all Ask a... threads (to my knowledge at least): Ask a Turk

 

[knigh+]

Sorry for the delay. I'm replying this post here by Knigh+. I cannot quote directly because the thread is locked.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4998612&postcount=500

I'm not going to address everything, because some of it has such vague language that it cannot really be debated - IMHO, some of the text can mean anything. People will read what they want to read sometimes, and there is no swaying those types of opinion.

And yet you chose to comment only on the relatively more vague examples, while avoiding the less-vague ones (what's the opposite word for vague?)

Here is the entire original post for ease of access:

Spoiler :

Relativity of time (this may also explain the creation in 6 days dispute, as 6 days can be any huge time)

32:5 - He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth: in the end will (all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning.
70:4 - The angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years


Astronomy:

21:33 - It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.
55:5 - The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed.
36:40 - It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to law).


Space travel:

55:33 - O ye assembly of Jinns and men! if it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority/knowledge/power shall ye be able to pass!


Layers of atmosphere/space/universe/multiverse (I am not sure what is what, but the second one seems like talking about lightning and ozone layer. Or if Allah defines down as out, as up and down are arbitrary for universe, then it would be about Auroras and ionosphere, which equally fits to the second verse, but less likely. Or atmosphere is lowest layer, than system space, Kuiper belt, Oort cloud, interstellar space, intergalactic space, the place outside the universe...fits better.)

2:29 - It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; then He turned to the heaven and made them into seven firmaments. And of all things He hath perfect knowledge.
41:12 - So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.
67:3 - He Who created the seven heavens one above another: no want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (Allah) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw? 67:4 - Again turn thy vision a second time: (thy) vision will come back to thee dull and discomfited, in a state worn out. 67:5 - And We have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.


Earth has layers too (I know I can consider subdivisions of layers in verious ways to change the numbers both for this and the previous. The point in nobody ever mentioned layers before Quran. Besides it doesn't specify the exact number in this one)

65:12 - Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends all things in (His) Knowledge.


World turns, or Tectonics

27:88 - Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, Who disposes of all things in perfect order: for He is well acquainted with all that ye do.


Oceanography - separation of seas at straits by currents / separation of currents (I read somewhere the guy who discovered this later converted to Islam when he read it in Quran)

25:53 - It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: one palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.
27:61 - Or, who has made the earth firm to live in; made rivers in its midst; set thereon mountains immovable, and made a separating bar between the two bodies of flowing water? (Can there be another) god besides Allah? Nay, most of them know not.
55:19 - He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together 55:20 - Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress.


Living tissue is composed mainly of water:

21:30 - Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?


Evolution (keep in mind that Islam totally rejects reincarnation):

30:11 - It is Allah Who begins (the process of) creation; then repeats it; then shall ye be brought back to Him.
30:27 - It is He Who begins (the process of) creation; then repeats it; and for Him it is most easy. To Him belongs the loftiest similitude (we can think of) in the heavens and the earth: for He is Exalted in Might, Full of Wisdom.


Three embrionic stages:

39:6 - He created you (all) from a single Person: then created, of like nature, his mate; and He sent down for you eight head of cattle in pairs: He makes you, in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness. Such is Allah, your Lord and Cherisher: to Him belongs (all) dominion. There is no god but He: then how are ye turned away (from your true Centre)?


Bacterial decay:

6:95 - It is Allah who causeth the seed-grain and the date stone to split and sprout. He causeth the living to issue from the dead, and He is the One to cause the dead to issue from the living. That is Allah: then how are ye deluded away from the truth?


I am not saying every one of these are sound evidence by itself. But all of them together, by one illiterate man from 7th century? I don't buy that, to me it is way obviously divine.

Additional to these, Quran is the most pro-science of the books. It has countless verses that just point to something and end in "there are signs in this for those who understand". It is like "go study biology, go learn astronomy, go figure out meteorology". Well I am a scientist and that may be the primary reason to hold on to Islam.

And to your comments...

This doesn't really mean anything useful, because we'll never agree on what's meant by the 'lamps' referenced. My natural reading is that he is referring to stars and shooting stars.

I already said that lamps aren't defined, and that's exactly why it is pro-science.

We then get the amusing picture that Mohammed thought that shooting stars were used to protect earth against demons.

Not really, as the verse does not have any mention of demons (Islam does not have demons in the sense Christianity has them anyway)

Of course, because people think the Qur'an is infallible, they will not agree with this interpretation.

It doesn't help when people interpret it while thinking "everything in here must be wrong" either.

It should be noted that the Greeks, too, referenced the Seven Heavens in their mythos; symbolised by the Sun, Moon, and 5 visible planets.

Number isn't my point, that's why I did not try to specifically count seven layers.

A similar verse is this:...
I pull from that that it's impossible for anything but the will of Allah to move a mountain OR cleave the earth. That no instruction is available to do so (or the Qur'an would be it). Well, it's easy to see that this is false. We can well know that it is possible for humans to move a mountain; at least that it's technically feasible.

The verse you quoted has no similarity to my example at all. Yours talks about God's limitless power. But mine says God has put things in a certain natural order.

Keep in mind that people will see what they want to see. If the text had said that there were four, seven, eleven, or a thousand stages - people would be able to find them and justify the text. The truth is that there are thousands of events that occur during the development of a fetus.

No, the truth is Christian doctors came up with the number of distinct embrionic stages, therefore it is not what muslims think. But it could also mean zygote-embryo-fetus. Or something else altogether (we don't really know what "veils of darkness" means), but this is not the point either.

Finally, I urge you to investigate Mohammed's opinion on what thunder and lightening was.[/QUOTE]

Mohammed's opinion on scientific phenomena, such as meteors or lightning, are irrelevant. Mohammed was not a scientist, and never claimed to be. His opinions on society, ethics and religion matter. When he said "pursue science/knowledge", that mattered because he was talking about lifestyle. When he speculates on lightning, it is his irrelevant personal opinion. (I am writing this without knowing the opinion on lightning you are mentioning)

My point in all these was not to show Quran can substitute a high school science textbook, it can not. As I said in the last paragraph of the original post, the imporant thing is Islam's pro-science stance, by sprinkling all these scientific bits within the religious text to spark curiosity and promote education. When God says that he has hidden secrets/signs in the life of this or that animal, any Quran reader, even the weirdest most radical fundamentalist, if he reads it with his brain, will have at least a moment of philosophy, or better a drive to educate oneself. Ignorance is one of the most efficient sources of evil in our world, so I find this pro-learning stance of Islam very plausible.


Ok, that's enough this month...I'll go back to lurk mode.

 

[Yeeek]

I was expecting this reaction. So, by your definition, is laicity wrong? Only religion should prevail in everyone's daily affair (work, school, politic) ect. Of all the women i know from arab origin, none of them wear the hijab. Their grand mother do, sometimes their mothers aswell. Are things changing for muslims outside Islamic countries?

 

[Azkonus]

Sorry but catholics have no right to ask questions about Hagia Sophia.

They first used it as a stable and later changed it into Catholic cathedral when they had the chance. Plus they had no respect to Orthodox people who for this reason trusted Ottomans much more than Catholics. (Ok, nowadays because of Cyprus problem etc they don't say this often but it was like that)

...The crusaders inflicted a horrible and savage sacking on Constantinople for three days, during which many ancient and medieval Roman and Greek works were stolen or destroyed. Despite their oaths and the threat of excommunication, the Crusaders ruthlessly and systematically violated the city's holy sanctuaries, destroying, defiling, or stealing all they could lay hands on; according to Choniates a prostitute was even set up on the Patriarchal throne. When Innocent III heard of the conduct of his pilgrims, he was filled with shame and strongly rebuked them.

In an ironic series of events, during the middle of the 15th century, the Latin Church tried to organize a crusade which aimed at the restoration of the Byzantine Empire which was gradually being torn down by the Ottoman Turks. The attempt however failed, as the vast majority of the Byzantines refused to unite the Churches. In a way, Greeks thought that the Byzantine civilisation which was centered at the Orthodox faith would be more secure under Ottoman rule, and preferred to sacrifice their political freedom in order to preserve their religion...

For Mehmet II, he entered the city and prayed in Hagia Sophia which was looking vast on the top of a hill overlooking the city during siege. He converted it to mosque and protected hundreds of other churches, patriach had all his rights.

Some pictures for you all. Check out how big it is comparing to city walls and cars.

Spoiler :

 

[Solver]

The excerpts from Quran posted here lead me to a question on conversion. It's my understanding that Islam accepts people who convert to Islam from other faiths. You've posted excerpts such as

"From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent to them...O People of the Scripture! Now has Our Messenger (Muhammad) come to you, explaining to you much of that which you used to hide in the Scripture, and passing over much that is now unecessary. Indeed, there has come to you a Light from Allah and a clear Scripture wherewith Allah guides him who seeks His Good Pleasure unto paths of peace. He brings them out of the darknesses by His will into the Light, and guides them to a Straight Path." (Quran, 5:14-16)

I see this as a message to Christians urging (or, rather, suggesting) them to convert to Islam. However, there's also this excerpt:

"Say: 'O you who disbelieve. I do not worship that which you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship. And I will not (ever) worship that which you worship, nor will you (ever) worship that which I worship. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.'" (Quran, Chapter 109)

This one seems to me like a strong message that people's faith doesn't change - "nor will you worship that which I worship". Sounds like a denial of possible conversions. How should one understand this contradiction, or is my understanding of the Chapter 109 excerpt wrong?