Ask A Red V: The Five-Year Plan

[Cheezy the Wiz]

A little excerpt from Eleanor Marx, daughter of Karl, during a May Day speech in 1890, to celebrate the holiday.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/eleanor-marx/works/mayday.htm

We have not come to do the work of political parties, but we have come here in the cause of labour, in its own defence, to demand its own rights. I can remember when we came in handfuls of a few dozen to Hyde Park to demand an Eight Hours' Bill, but the dozens have grown to hundreds, and the hundreds to thousands, until we have this magnificent demonstration that fills the park today. We are standing face to face with another demonstration, but I am glad to see that the great masses of the people are on our side. Those of us who have gone through all the worry of the Dock Strike, and especially the Gasworkers' Strike, and have seen the men, women and children stand round us, have had enough of strikes, and we are determined to secure an eight hours' day by legal enactment; unless we do so, it will be taken from us at the first opportunity. We will only have ourselves to blame if we do not achieve the victory which this great day could so easily give us. There is in the park this afternoon a man whom Mr. Gladstone once imprisoned– Michael Davitt; but Mr. Gladstone is now on the best of terms with him. What do you suppose is the reason for the change? Why has the Liberal Party been so suddenly converted to Home Rule? Simply because the Irish people sent 80 members to the House of Commons to support the Conservatives; in the same way we must kick these Liberal and Radical members out if they refuse to support our programme. I am speaking this afternoon not only as a Trade Unionist, but as a Socialist. Socialists believe that the eight hours' day is the first and most immediate step to be taken, and we aim at a time when there will no longer be one class supporting two others, but the unemployed both at the top and at the bottom of society will be got rid of. This is not the end but only the beginning of the struggle; it is not enough to come here to demonstrate in favour of an eight hours' day. We must not be like some Christians who sin for six days and go to church on the seventh, but we must speak for the cause daily, and make the men, and especially the women that we meet, come into the ranks to help us.

"Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number,
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you–
Ye are many–they are few."

 

[ReindeerThistle]

A fitting May Day tribute, Cheezy. Thank you, Comrade!


Link to video.

Solidarity forever!
Solidarity forever!
Solidarity forever!
For the union makes us strong

When the union's inspiration
through the workers' blood shall run,
There can be no power greater
anywhere beneath the sun.
Yet what force on earth is weaker
than the feeble strength of one?
But the union makes us strong.

They have taken untold millions
that they never toiled to earn,
But without our brain and muscle
not a single wheel can turn.
We can break their haughty power;
gain our freedom when we learn
That the Union makes us strong.

In our hands is placed a power
greater than their hoarded gold;
Greater than the might of armies,
magnified a thousand-fold.
We can bring to birth a new world
from the ashes of the old
For the Union makes us strong.

 

[Richard Cribb]

My contribution, Brecht/Eisler of course, the Solidarity Song.

Link to video.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

My contribution, Brecht/Eisler of course, the Solidarity Song.

Link to video.

Link to video.

Link to video.



So, a question and it's a serious one however it might appear.

In the attempts that I know of for communism, corruption have been pretty rampant - is this something you'd believe is a regrettable side-effect or is it something you honestly believe could be rectified in the future attempts? In Russia or any other states that may go for it.

 

[red_elk]

May Day parade in Moscow, first time since 1991. Tens of thousands of people on Red Square:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_xvXZqTJeM#t=20

Unusual, Soviet-style May Day parade in Kharkov, Ukraine:


Link to video.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Happy Birthday to Karl Marx!

 

[Tee Kay]

Because I've been indulging a bit on campus politics I've often heard the phrase "at least I'm not a Trot" uttered by leftists of all stripes (except Trots, obviously). So, question: what's wrong with Trots? And how much of what's wrong with Trots can be attributed to Trotsky himself. I've always thought he was a swell guy (well, relatively speaking).

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Trotskyists' chief problem is that there are people in the world who are not Lev Trotsky.

 

[Traitorfish]

Trotskyists have a reputation for being insular, sectarian and desperately lacking in imagination. This is sometimes well-deserved, sometimes less so. The problem is often that while individual Trotskyists or members of Trotskyist groups (there's not the 1:1 overlap you might expect) are mostly normal, mostly reasonable people, the most visible Trotskyist groups are managed by absolute cretins.

I don't think it's really anything to do with Trotsky, but really comes out off the local politics of the far-left in the post-'68 era. In the context of campus politics, in particular, Trots only became a meaningful force in the 1980s, when the various Soviet, Chinese, Cuban, etc. fan clubs lost their former lustres. This coincides with the breakdown of anything resembling a socialist mainstream, so the Trots founds themselves as big fish in small ponds, and their institutional cultures developed along those lines.

 

[Camikaze]

Sigh. Communism has a very specific definition. It either exists or it doesn't.

Isn't that rather essentialist?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Isn't that rather essentialist?

Yes I suppose it is.

 

[Camikaze]

I was under the impression that was a little unusual for Marxism. Is it?

A supplementary question would then be, what's the view on the importance of discourse?

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Discourse is the hallmark of Marxism-Leninism, to the exterior, we criticize the existing social order, and explain the necessity of a DOP in non-hackneyed phrases; to the interior, we hash out the particulars of our political line and strategic motion.

Discourse is how we came to our politics, and how we maintain it.

This is all proven in practice, though. Not just in intellectual debate. Correctness is proven in the work product.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I was under the impression that was a little unusual for Marxism. Is it?

I don't think a Theory of Ideas is mutually exclusive with Marxism, it just isn't likely to be something Marxists particularly care about. They would for the most part embrace the imperfections of our world. But in that sense, communism is not something which exists perfectly in idea but always imperfectly in form, because, well, we just don't think of it like that. Communism is the end goal, and it has a specific description. Perhaps it is an idea which we can only approach but never actually 100% become. But even if that's true, it does not mean that "communism is unattainable, and therefore not worth trying to reach" or other statements of futility on the part of anti-communists. Partly because when they say that it's just special pleading - they wouldn't care if it were reachable, they just don't want us to even try. But also because even if we can't reach it, we can still get pretty damn close, and even that would be worth it and would be much much better than capitalism could ever hope to provide, simply by virtue of its value system and power relations.

I want to be absolutely clear, here: communism is the end goal, the "ideal," the "utopia." Socialism is the process that gets us there, and fills the entire gap between capitalism and communism. It is not a matter of snapping one's fingers and either immediately succeeding or failing at going from capitalism to communism. Once we depart the capitalist path, we will be in socialism so long as we continue to try to reach communism.

A supplementary question would then be, what's the view on the importance of discourse?

There's an expression we use, when infighting begins to take over our internal communist discourse: "we argue not to win, but to agree." It's a fundamentally different form of interaction than a typical debate in the "real world." By holding ourselves and each other accountable, we aim for reaching a mutual understanding between two competing points of view, such that the discussion yields one single conclusion which both sides accept and understand. In this way we aim to continually learn from our past and improve our program, growing together as comrades and allies.

 

[plarq]

Once we depart the capitalist path, we will be in socialism so long as we continue to try to reach communism.

Feudalism is also a departure of capitalism..

There's an expression we use, when infighting begins to take over our internal communist discourse: "we argue not to win, but to agree." It's a fundamentally different form of interaction than a typical debate in the "real world." By holding ourselves and each other accountable, we aim for reaching a mutual understanding between two competing points of view

That always bring me to purges and posthumously denounce of former leaders. The same standard does not apply to capitalist countries because they don't declare themselves as running collective democracy. By declaring collective democracy, we have to assume the decisions by the Party is at least morally sound as it is made in good faith. Not by some posthumous denouncement of former policies or a palace coup, that greatly reduced legitimacy of the Party authority.

 

[Nares]

As I've discussed before, if you give people nothing to care about, why should you be surprised when they stop caring?

Isn't this a flaw in the communist system; that there's literally nothing to encourage a person to care?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Isn't this a flaw in the communist system; that there's literally nothing to encourage a person to care?

No, it isn't.

 

[Nares]

No, it isn't.

Then what motivates communists to excel?

If your increased effort cannot be rewarded with increased material wealth, what's on offer?

Love of country?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Then what motivates communists to excel?

If your increased effort cannot be rewarded with increased material wealth, what's on offer?

Love of country?

You do benefit with increased material wealth. As does everyone else. It's just not specifically yours.

 

[aelf]

Then what motivates communists to excel?

If your increased effort cannot be rewarded with increased material wealth, what's on offer?

Love of country?

You do realise that "motivates" does not operate independently of ideology/cultural hegemony, right?