Ask a Russian

[FriendlyFire]

You seriously think lecturing patients about his language skills is a proper way for a doctor to operate?

The similar story was in Estonia a while ago - a doctor threw teenager's passport in thrash bin, after he started explaining what happened to him in Russian.

Is this common in Russia for immigrant workers ?
Treating people worse then animals ? Dose this also happen to Russian Citizens ?

'Like Being A Slave': Workers On Russia's Bridge To Crimea Report Abuse, Deceit

He was not given any of the 47,000 rubles ($718) per month he was promised.

The Kerch Strait Bridge is Russia's top-priority infrastructure project. At a cost of at least $4.5 billion, the 19-kilometer car-and-rail bridge will tie Russia to Crimea

Nonetheless, Kremlin auditors estimated in June 2015 that two-thirds of the money allocated for the bridge over the preceding year was unaccounted for

Abdullin returned from Kerch with another man from Zlatoust, Aleksei Loginov, who told a similar story.

"They treat people very badly there. They don't even consider them to be people. They treat them worse than animals," he said. "All day, you can't even sit down or take a smoke. There were no smoking breaks…. All 11 hours, you had to work, work, work. Without a break. If you sit down, you are fired. That's how they treated people."

Loginov recalled seeing one shift supervisor fire two men on the spot for allegedly "sawing crookedly."

"They'll fire you for nothing," he said. "That's how the whole Kerch Bridge project is built. They fire people and send them away without any pay. They are actually trying to break people because they know they are far from home and they don't have the money to travel home."

When one month of work was up and no money came their way, Abdullin and Loginov had enough. They caught the ferry to the village of Taman, on the Russian side of the strait, and started walking. They hitchhiked occasionally, slept in fields, and ate whatever food they could find.

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-crimea-kerch-bridge-workers-abuse-unpaid/27906011.html

 

[Yeekim]

You seriously think lecturing patients about his language skills is a proper way for a doctor to operate?

The similar story was in Estonia a while ago - a doctor threw teenager's passport in thrash bin, after he started explaining what happened to him in Russian.
http://rus.delfi.ee/daily/estonia/vrach-travmopunkta-vybrosil-pasport-podrostka-v-urnu?id=25397947

I really doubt those kids confronted doctors over language issues. They came to get treatment.

I'm not disputing that the doctor - the Estonian one at least - was being an ass about it. That's what makes this story newsworthy.
What is written between the lines, however, is that even 25 years after the end of USSR, lots of Russians haven't bothered to make the effort to learn the local language enough to make themselves understood on an elementary level, instead expecting others to speak Russian to them by default - and are routinely accommodated. So much so that if they aren't accommodated, like in that Latvian case - it makes international news.

Is it possible anywhere in Russia to be in 7th grade and not be able to explain "I fell yesterday, my leg hurts since" in Russian? This failure of our school system is really not the fault of the kid though.

 

[red_elk]

I'm not disputing that the doctor - the Estonian one at least - was being an ass about it. That's what makes this story newsworthy.
What is written between the lines, however, is that even 25 years after the end of USSR, lots of Russians haven't bothered to make the effort to learn the local language enough to make themselves understood on an elementary level, instead expecting others to speak Russian to them by default - and are routinely accommodated. So much so that if they aren't accommodated, like in that Latvian case - it makes international news.

If it was just accommodation issue, I'm sure it wouldn't get to the news. Normal doctor would say something like "Ok, I can't understand your language, let's get you another doctor or we can ask somebody for translation". In this case it's clear that the doctor could understand girl, but was upset that she spoke another language than he would prefer to hear.

We may argue about language and education policies, but confronting children over such things is absolutely inappropriate.

Is it possible anywhere in Russia to be in 7th grade and not be able to explain "I fell yesterday, my leg hurts since" in Russian?

Can't say for sure about Russia, but I can imagine such situation was quite common in USSR 30-40 years ago. When Russian speaking doctors were being sent to work in remote villages in Middle Asian republics, or to treat native people in Siberia.

 

[Agent327]

I'm not sure how you can be in 7th grade and not speak simple Russian. But its'comforting to hear that this was common in Siberia and 'Middle Asian republics' 30-40 years ago...

 

[Yeekim]

If it was just accommodation issue, I'm sure it wouldn't get to the news.

Well, what was it but an accommodation issue? And it made into news through RT, who picked up this Facebook post.

We may argue about language and education policies, but confronting children over such things is absolutely inappropriate.

If you met a teen who couldn't do elementary level addition and subtraction, despite being in middle school, wouldn't you confront him about that? Obviously, a lot depends on the manner of the confrontation and yes, doctor's first responsibility is to treat his patients, but it's not as if she was thrown out of the door and left to bleed to death, is it?

Yes, the children aren't the only one to blame - chief blame lies on the education system, which makes such things even possible, and on their parents, who fervently resist any attempt at reform. And once these kids finish school, they wonder why they have trouble finding a decent job.

Can't say for sure about Russia, but I can imagine such situation was quite common in USSR 30-40 years ago. When Russian speaking doctors were being sent to work in remote villages in Middle Asian republics, or to treat native people in Siberia.

Indeed. And can you also imagine those people then pondering: "в какие органы власти или структуры мне обратиться, чтобы не осталась все произошедшее в стороне?"

 

[red_elk]

Well, what was it but an accommodation issue? And it made into news through RT, who picked up this Facebook post.

It's the issue with the doctor being nationalist a-hole. As I said, if it was just an accommodation issue, normal doctor would still try to help, instead of saying (or yelling) to a child "We speak Latvian here, go to your Russia".

If you met a teen who couldn't do elementary level addition and subtraction, despite being in middle school, wouldn't you confront him about that?

No, I wouldn't. It's not my business to confront children about their skills. They may have good reasons not to know what people expect them to know - and this is especially true for partially disabled children, like it was in this Latvian case. If it creates trouble for me, I would talk to his/her parents or ask my supervisors to resolve the problem. That doctor could as well put a sign on his door "We don't treat Russians here", and make another international news.

Yes, the children aren't the only one to blame - chief blame lies on the education system, which makes such things even possible, and on their parents, who fervently resist any attempt at reform.

I think if the country has 30%-40% of people who speak non-state language and resist attempts of the state to re-train them, the country has more fundamental problem than just a flaw of education system. And I'm not sure the national minority is the side to blame here. They resist because they feel that they are being assimilated, not integrated.

Indeed. And can you also imagine those people then pondering: "в какие органы власти или структуры мне обратиться, чтобы не осталась все произошедшее в стороне?"

If Tajik or Chukchi village didn't have a doctor, there were often no other options but to send Russian doctor to work there. Obviously, they knew where they are going to work and that they will need either to learn local language or make sure there will be someone who can translate.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I think if the country has 30%-40% of people who speak non-state language and resist attempts of the state to re-train them, the country has more fundamental problem than just a flaw of education system. And I'm not sure the national minority is the side to blame here. They resist because they feel that they are being assimilated, not integrated.

How come German language gets lump into that 40% of foreign languages as part of Russia complaining ? WHY I wonder would Estonia have no problem with German being a language spoken unlike Russian language.




Meanwhile Russian Minorities are sometimes treated worse then animals.
I am sure Russia can connect the dots so to speak.

 

[red_elk]

Meanwhile Russian Minorities are sometimes treated worse then animals.

I didn't claim Russian minorities in Baltic States are being treated worse than animals.
But in the two cases described above, in Latvia and Estonia, the teenagers were clearly mistreated.

 

[Verbose]

Considering the Russian speaking minority in Estonia effectively has its own separate school system, I'm not sure how surprised Russians should be by any of this?

 

[red_elk]

I'm not sure how surprised Russians should be by any of this?

What you mean - Russians shouldn't be surprised if doctor dumps their passport in thrash bin when they try to talk to him in their native language?

 

[Verbose]

What you mean - Russians shouldn't be surprised if doctor dumps their passport in thrash bin when they try to talk to him in their native language?

I couldn't find that RT article makes any mention of any passport?

 

[red_elk]

I couldn't find that RT article makes any mention of any passport?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14386758&postcount=259

 

[Verbose]

Well, what does it mean, do you think?

Is the problem that the Russian minority isn't learning the local languages? (Any actually good reasons why not btw?)

Is it that a member of the medical profession has turned out to be an idiot (not that uncommon), and that it manifests itself as bigotry against the Russian minority? Or is it that supposedly this means all/most Lithuanians are bigotted racists who have it in for Russians? At least how that is what enough Russians think?

Or is the problem why this is even news in Russia?

Possibly all of the above?

 

[red_elk]

Well, what does it mean, do you think?

This one I also already answered:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14387891&postcount=266

Is the problem that the Russian minority isn't learning the local languages? (Any actually good reasons why not btw?)

I don't know. Perhaps many of them think they are not supposed to?

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Both Latvia and Estonia have an official figure of a quarter of Russian ethnic population from the total. My guess is that the actual numbers are even higher. Thats something which cant be ignored...

 

[Yeekim]

I think if the country has 30%-40% of people who speak non-state language and resist attempts of the state to re-train them, the country has more fundamental problem than just a flaw of education system.

Tbh, as for that minority, usual 20/80 rule applies.

If Tajik or Chukchi village didn't have a doctor, there were often no other options but to send Russian doctor to work there. Obviously, they knew where they are going to work and that they will need either to learn local language or make sure there will be someone who can translate.

Fwiw, I went to school in 1989 in Tallinn. We had a school nurse who only spoke Russian well into middle school. She was a nice lady; I like to think she, too, finally realized where she had ended up and resolved to learn a bit of local language...

Both Latvia and Estonia have an official figure of a quarter of Russian ethnic population from the total. My guess is that the actual numbers are even higher. Thats something which cant be ignored...

Indeed. The problem seems to be that a few among that quarter do their best to ignore the other three...

 

[plarq]

@red_elk, I have a question about general political tendency among oversea Russians (you are one of them, although you returned after several years in Canada), what is their views about current Russian administration?

 

[red_elk]

On average, I think, the attitude among emigrants should be less favorable comparing to residents. From the people overseas who I know personally (not too many of them), the attitude varies from strictly negative, to the similar as mine. Judging from forums and social networks, there are also supporters of current administration.

Edit:
Very rough estimation - my personal views about Putin are most likely less favorable than the average views in Russia, but the similar or slightly better than the average views among emigrants.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Both Latvia and Estonia have an official figure of a quarter of Russian ethnic population from the total. My guess is that the actual numbers are even higher. Thats something which cant be ignored...

All the all the Russians are itching to be annexed by the Motherland. Fatherland , I mean the EU

How many Russians living in Baltics want to be part of Russia ?
Why is everyone learning German and leaving for the West ?

In the capital city of Riga, almost half of the residents have Russian roots. And as in all three countries, in Latvia there is a political party that represents the rights of Russians. It is led by the most successful politician with Russian origins in the Baltics: Nils Usakovs. His Harmony party is primarily supported by Russian minorities. But, the mayor says, "We are loyal to Latvia, to NATO and to the European Union."

When he was just 25 years old, Usakovs had already decided on Latvia and the West. A study last year found that the younger generation of those with Russian origins identify more strongly with their Baltic homelands than with Russia. Although these young people have a cultural affinity to Russia, they don't consider it to be their home either. It's a transition the older generation often doesn't make. Many never learned Latvian, Lithuanian or Estonian because Russian was formerly the national language, their language.

Raik is teaching 650 students, nearly all Russians, to be teachers here. Classes are taught in Russian, but students are required to speak fluent Estonian by the end of their studies. After their exams, many of Raik's students leave Narva to work as language teachers in Sweden or Finland. It's a trend Raik views as a success. "My students are looking to the West," she says. They don't want to belong to Russia.

There are myriad reasons, too. Estonia enjoys a good level of legal security. The retirement pensions are higher than in Russia and the hospitals are better. Raik's university was built with EU funds and the main streets, the riverside promenade and the electrical grid were all renovated with European subsidies.

In the Baltics, Europe won the battle for the Russians: more and more of them are coming over to the West.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...-baltics-over-resurgent-russia-a-1041448.html

 

[FriendlyFire]

Meanwhile in Russia,
Iam wondering if this is the Russian police looking for bribes, because you know In Russia Police rob you. Or this was an overzealous police officer targetting Germans speaekers

Is is urh "normal" for Russian police to carry out beatings ???

Russian Allegedly Beaten by Police For Speaking German

A Russian man has claimed that he was detained and beaten by police after speaking German in public, the Meduza news website reported Friday.

Vyacheslav Popov, head of logistics at Kudrin Foundation thinktank, wrote on Facebook that he was stopped by a policeman while talking German to a friend during a phone call in central Moscow.

He was taken to a local police station, where he was quizzed on his family's whereabouts and "why he was speaking a 'non-Russian language,'" Popov claimed.

When he refused to answer to questioning, the policemen promised to report him to the security services and threatened that he would be refused the right to leave Russia. They then proceeded to beat him, Meduza reported.

Popov has filed a complaint against the police officer who has since requested a transfer, the website reported.

The Kudrin Foundation was established in 2012 by former finance minister Alexei Kudrin. The foundation conducts research on economic development, entrepreneurship, financial, fiscal, budgetary, social, political issues, international relations, and Russia's legal system development.

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russian-allegedly-beaten-by-police-for-speaking-german-54976