Ask a Turk

I am going to say that I certainly am not motivated by racism. I like every Turk I have ever met. I think the Turkish state is a good example that the Middle East would do well to follow. I am not some Armenian propagandist. But their whitewashing of history really bothers me.
 
i dont wanna start a fight here but you're just looking one side here.

Why was the crusader burn every village and kill women and children on their !holy path!

or what germans did in WW2

or during the colonisation era Spanish and Great Britain slaughter american natives

ı can write lots of things here because there is no civilization which did not enter war in their history

so don't see only the one side turn and look the other one too

peace..


who massacared the christians seeking refuge in jerusalem? yes the turks!

who joined in ww1? yes the turks!


but i digress turkey is a good example.
 
who massacared the christians seeking refuge in jerusalem? yes the turks!

who joined in ww1? yes the turks!


Who started World War II? Why the Germans!! Whats your point? So Turkey has been in wars. Yes. So has every other bloody country in the world. So? Is that supposed to mean something?
 
Who started World War II? Why the Germans!! Whats your point? So Turkey has been in wars. Yes. So has every other bloody country in the world. So? Is that supposed to mean something?

but at least germans recognise when they commit genocide.
 
Do turks from Turkey still acknowledge themselves as Ottomans?

Wasn't it the Ottomans that took christian boys has slave warriors?
 
I think "useless" has a personal "vendetta" due to some event that happened in his/her life. This is just a guestemate in my humble opinion.

Perhaps it is the increasing number of Turkish guest-workers in Germany, specially their rising birth rate against Germany's overall rapidly declining birthrate??? Soon Germany will be ruled by Turks!!:crazyeye: ...:eek:

So we will drink beer and eat doner kebab in Berlin.

jokes aside, really, there is a huge number of Turks in Germany, over 3 million? and thay are multiplying like rabbits. A similar case in Bulgaria as well, and they are only 8 million in population compared to Germany's 75+.

So we could be in EU sooner than you think people!! :p

Prost!!
 
I think "useless" has a personal "vendetta" due to some event that happened in his/her life. This is just a guestemate in my humble opinion.

Perhaps it is the increasing number of Turkish guest-workers in Germany, specially their rising birth rate against Germany's overall rapidly declining birthrate??? Soon Germany will be ruled by Turks!!:crazyeye: ...:eek:

So we will drink beer and eat doner kebab in Berlin.

jokes aside, really, there is a huge number of Turks in Germany, over 3 million? and thay are multiplying like rabbits. A similar case in Bulgaria as well, and they are only 8 million in population compared to Germany's 75+.

So we could be in EU sooner than you think people!! :p

Prost!!

as long as the turkish deny the armenia genocide then that will be along time before they enter.

funny you should say turkish workers, as i live next to an estate FULL of them.
 
*just needed to put this on the first page of the Thread posts*

What's the most death causes in Turkey right now?
 
I don't know if this has been asked before but why did the turks abolish the ottoman sultanate? I mean plenty of other nations keep their royal families as royal even in a democracy of sorts.
 
Parallel Study involving several "suspected" ethnic cleansing, massacre and genocide:

1.Germany in WWII

It's very important to see that Nazism is almost "cleaned" and "suppressed heavily" in post WWII era. The liberal democrats and conservatives in the FRD, the communists in DDR, both are heavily oppressed in Nazi's rule. They don't feel "unnationalistic" to talk about Nazi's crime, which is also conceived as "German crime at that time". So they aren't burden with nationalism to stop them talking about Nazi's genocide. In fact, German nationalists will blame Nazi with their every opportunity.

2. Japan in WWII

The post WWII era in Japan is a hard time under occupation and lack everything you can image. The conservatives, "slow expansion" advocates who are not in the center of power in the 20 years of rapid expansion and big wars, retook the power. Liberals, democrats, left-wing intellectuals and even communists, were legally publishing their materials criticizing the imperialism and invasions, and are also represented in post-war Japanese politics.

The power structure was heavily reformed. However, Emperor Hirohito is still Head of State, and one minister who is jailed for 8 years, took the Prime Minister in 1955. The "old factor" and "new factor" co-exist in post-war governments of Japan.

The co-existence could lead to an explanation of contemporary Japan, where people can express about "genocide", "massacre", "war crime" committed by former Japanese government without being labeled as "traitor", "commie" by mainstream media; while people who sympathize with the "war-heroes" are not automatically "fascists", "nazies". Quite like in US, where people can praise Confederacy without being labeled as traitor.

---

3. PRC in Sinkiang (Uyghurstan)

When the Chinese Civil war was nearly over, a new, strong-hand government run by communists replaced a more-decentralized, weak dictatorial Nationalist government. The communist government in Beijing decided to militarily conquer lands that belong to Chinese government in paper only since the fall of Qing Dynasty.

The Nationalists government didn't have the power and will to conquer far-away, poor land that belongs to Xibei San Ma, a Muslim warlord regime in Qinghai and Ganshu; Tibet, a Dalai Lama peaceful theocracy in Mountainous Tibet region; Sheng Shicai, a Chinese warlord who cooperated with Soviet Union in Sinkiang(Uyghurstan), and heavy-handed against Islam and Uyghur nationalism.

Although due to information blockade in PRC, I can't image the actual picture of the war going on in Sinkiang, Qinghai and Tibet. But one thing is certain, that by aiding local Muslim militia, the communists quickly established their control over warlords in Muslim area.

Then, after the warlords are defeated, the communists (Who are Han people from communist military and local communism collaborators) backstabbed Muslim militia: either to completely incorporate into communist system, and Han immigrants will settle in these area, or to face the consequences.

Yes, many Muslims who disobeys communist overlords were killed. Yet almost no Chinese dare to announce that it is "bad". Because doing this is 1) Opposing communist propaganda that denies death, 2) Opposing Han nationalism that believes Uyghurs are inferior and should be oppressed, and 3) Facing anti-Islam rant. Even if the communist government is replaced, the 2) and 3) is enough to stop Chinese from accepting "bad things happened there", even if they accept, they will think "bad things are good things indeed, racism is right".

I'm sorry, but Turkish nationalism is like Han nationalism. When you blame Han nationalists' cold-hearted of dead Uyghurs, calling them "inferior Uyghur jihadist who deserved to be genocided". Think about it!
 
Parallel Study involving several "suspected" ethnic cleansing, massacre and genocide:

1.Germany in WWII

It's very important to see that Nazism is almost "cleaned" and "suppressed heavily" in post WWII era. The liberal democrats and conservatives in the FRD, the communists in DDR, both are heavily oppressed in Nazi's rule. They don't feel "unnationalistic" to talk about Nazi's crime, which is also conceived as "German crime at that time". So they aren't burden with nationalism to stop them talking about Nazi's genocide. In fact, German nationalists will blame Nazi with their every opportunity.

2. Japan in WWII

The post WWII era in Japan is a hard time under occupation and lack everything you can image. The conservatives, "slow expansion" advocates who are not in the center of power in the 20 years of rapid expansion and big wars, retook the power. Liberals, democrats, left-wing intellectuals and even communists, were legally publishing their materials criticizing the imperialism and invasions, and are also represented in post-war Japanese politics.

The power structure was heavily reformed. However, Emperor Hirohito is still Head of State, and one minister who is jailed for 8 years, took the Prime Minister in 1955. The "old factor" and "new factor" co-exist in post-war governments of Japan.

The co-existence could lead to an explanation of contemporary Japan, where people can express about "genocide", "massacre", "war crime" committed by former Japanese government without being labeled as "traitor", "commie" by mainstream media; while people who sympathize with the "war-heroes" are not automatically "fascists", "nazies". Quite like in US, where people can praise Confederacy without being labeled as traitor.

---

3. PRC in Sinkiang (Uyghurstan)

When the Chinese Civil war was nearly over, a new, strong-hand government run by communists replaced a more-decentralized, weak dictatorial Nationalist government. The communist government in Beijing decided to militarily conquer lands that belong to Chinese government in paper only since the fall of Qing Dynasty.

The Nationalists government didn't have the power and will to conquer far-away, poor land that belongs to Xibei San Ma, a Muslim warlord regime in Qinghai and Ganshu; Tibet, a Dalai Lama peaceful theocracy in Mountainous Tibet region; Sheng Shicai, a Chinese warlord who cooperated with Soviet Union in Sinkiang(Uyghurstan), and heavy-handed against Islam and Uyghur nationalism.

Although due to information blockade in PRC, I can't image the actual picture of the war going on in Sinkiang, Qinghai and Tibet. But one thing is certain, that by aiding local Muslim militia, the communists quickly established their control over warlords in Muslim area.

Then, after the warlords are defeated, the communists (Who are Han people from communist military and local communism collaborators) backstabbed Muslim militia: either to completely incorporate into communist system, and Han immigrants will settle in these area, or to face the consequences.

Yes, many Muslims who disobeys communist overlords were killed. Yet almost no Chinese dare to announce that it is "bad". Because doing this is 1) Opposing communist propaganda that denies death, 2) Opposing Han nationalism that believes Uyghurs are inferior and should be oppressed, and 3) Facing anti-Islam rant. Even if the communist government is replaced, the 2) and 3) is enough to stop Chinese from accepting "bad things happened there", even if they accept, they will think "bad things are good things indeed, racism is right".

I'm sorry, but Turkish nationalism is like Han nationalism. When you blame Han nationalists' cold-hearted of dead Uyghurs, calling them "inferior Uyghur jihadist who deserved to be genocided". Think about it!

good point, i think thats how the turkish felt about armenians...
 
scy12 said:
You refuse to call it by a single nations name ? That isn't how the term genocide works.

precisely.

Yet , you can show the statistics that prove that it was indeed a " mutual genocide."

I have already posted some references, including some by non-turkish sources. Here's a site I found on top of a quick google search - seems informative. Other than that I know a few people with some grand parents killed by Armenian gangs.

Those are amazing statistics you have there ..

I haven't given any.

The total number of Greek Cypriot casualties of the 1974 invasion was near 3000, of whom 1619 were reported as missing and the rest as killed.

Which includes hundreds of people executed during the Greek coup in the previous week. This is why I avoid writing any statistics for Cyprus. Noone seems to know how to separate the statistics between the two events.

160,000-200,000 Greek Cypriots became refugees.

Yes all of this one occured during the peace operation, but almost all of these people fled their homes by government-fed paronaia without any contact by Turkish troops.


to be honest turkish history hasnt been full of peace. example.. the slaughter of the byzantine empire by.. guess who? yes the turks! the attempted invasion of italy and hungry.... yes the turks! our peaceful friends!

First, everybody knows that it was the crusaders who mutilated Byzantine empire. Turks merely fiddled with the ashes.

Second, your comment mimics your nickname in the context of our discussion, as it just shows that Turkish history is similar to any other nation's history.

Third, If you don't increase the apparent age of your general posting style to two-digit numbers, I'll start ignoring your posts. We are trying to have a civilized discussion here. If other posters who don't like Turks or disagree with what I write (example:scy12) can hold an intellectual discussion, so can you (I suppose).


I am going to say that I certainly am not motivated by racism. I like every Turk I have ever met. I think the Turkish state is a good example that the Middle East would do well to follow. I am not some Armenian propagandist.

I didn't mean you, you are one of the people in the off-topic forums that I consider mature.

But their whitewashing of history really bothers me.

me too.


who massacared the christians seeking refuge in jerusalem? yes the turks!

If you haven't made that up on the fly, please provide the year for it. The only real massacre of Christians, Jews, and Muslims in Jerusalem that I know to be noteworthy is done by Christian crusaders.

who joined in ww1? yes the turks!

You are hilarious. OE did not start WW1 (or any war in the 100+ years before that). Also remember that Turkey was one of the few neutrals in ww2.


Do turks from Turkey still acknowledge themselves as Ottomans?

:worship: finally somebody is using the thread for its purpose of asking questions, rather than expressing bad feelings towards Turkey.

No, absolutely not. Everything Ottoman was shunned and vilified (often rightfully) by the early republic.

Wasn't it the Ottomans that took christian boys has slave warriors?

You could say that – technically – between 15-18th centuries. But while that practice was used, all citizens already counted as slaves of the sultan – same as any other European monarchy of the same era. So in its historical context it is more forced recruitment and assimilation than slavery. Another thing, they weren’t all warriors, they were classified in accordance to talents, some became ministers/governors/ statesmen, some became engineers/architects, craftsmen…the ones without any particular talent (or some physical talent) became soldiers.


jokes aside, really, there is a huge number of Turks in Germany, over 3 million? and thay are multiplying like rabbits. A similar case in Bulgaria as well, and they are only 8 million in population compared to Germany's 75+.

Germany and Bulgaria are different. The Turks in Germany are from Eastern Turkey rural areas, therefore have a very high number of kids per family. The Turks in Bulgaria aren’t immigrants at all, and their family size is not much different than Bulgarians.


What's the most death causes in Turkey right now?

Other than natural causes you mean? Traffic accidents I guess. It is about 5000 per year.


I don't know if this has been asked before but why did the turks abolish the ottoman sultanate? I mean plenty of other nations keep their royal families as royal even in a democracy of sorts.

Because Turkey fought Ottoman Empire during the independence war. Ottoman government relinquished all rights to leading the nation when they sided with the enemy, and sent the Caliphate army to attack the national forces.

The current system of Turkey is similar to democratic monarchies like UK, except that we have a president who is elected, instead of the royalty. Prime minister is the government head, while president merely acts as a supervisor.


I'm sorry, but Turkish nationalism is like Han nationalism. When you blame Han nationalists' cold-hearted of dead Uyghurs, calling them "inferior Uyghur jihadist who deserved to be genocided". Think about it!

good point, i think thats how the turkish felt about armenians...

Useless, since when are you a Turk? Please don’t clutter the thread.

I have not found of heard of any event in history or today that would point to Turks believing themselves superior to armenians or any other nation. If the same circumstances were to happen with Georgians instead, the outcome would have been the same. Moreover, Armenians specifically were the “trusted people” of the empire.

Even today when there are polls like “Would you mind if your kid gets married to an Armenian/Greek?” and the same question in those countries about marrying a Turk, the most positive answers always come from Turkey. I remember another in which they follow all news in top10 newspapers in Turkey and Greece for a year, and categorize them as positive/negative/neutral; Turkey’s were evenly divided while Greece’s were 85% negative.

I know myself and my people to confidently say that we don’t hate any nation at all. That does not mean we are not aware and wary of the hatred from two nations (and more importantly, their diasporas who keep the hate alive).


Please, keep in mind that this thread is labeled “Ask a Turk”. If you have some buried hatred inside you, this is not the place for it. It is also not the place for you to express your opinion of what Turks might be thinking, based on your weird prejudices. You are free to go and start your own “I hate Turks because…” thread.
 
precisely.



I have already posted some references, including some by non-turkish sources. Here's a site I found on top of a quick google search - seems informative. Other than that I know a few people with some grand parents killed by Armenian gangs.



I haven't given any.



Which includes hundreds of people executed during the Greek coup in the previous week. This is why I avoid writing any statistics for Cyprus. Noone seems to know how to separate the statistics between the two events.



Yes all of this one occured during the peace operation, but almost all of these people fled their homes by government-fed paronaia without any contact by Turkish troops.




First, everybody knows that it was the crusaders who mutilated Byzantine empire. Turks merely fiddled with the ashes.

Second, your comment mimics your nickname in the context of our discussion, as it just shows that Turkish history is similar to any other nation's history.

Third, If you don't increase the apparent age of your general posting style to two-digit numbers, I'll start ignoring your posts. We are trying to have a civilized discussion here. If other posters who don't like Turks or disagree with what I write (example:scy12) can hold an intellectual discussion, so can you (I suppose).




I didn't mean you, you are one of the people in the off-topic forums that I consider mature.



me too.




If you haven't made that up on the fly, please provide the year for it. The only real massacre of Christians, Jews, and Muslims in Jerusalem that I know to be noteworthy is done by Christian crusaders.



You are hilarious. OE did not start WW1 (or any war in the 100+ years before that). Also remember that Turkey was one of the few neutrals in ww2.




:worship: finally somebody is using the thread for its purpose of asking questions, rather than expressing bad feelings towards Turkey.

No, absolutely not. Everything Ottoman was shunned and vilified (often rightfully) by the early republic.



You could say that – technically – between 15-18th centuries. But while that practice was used, all citizens already counted as slaves of the sultan – same as any other European monarchy of the same era. So in its historical context it is more forced recruitment and assimilation than slavery. Another thing, they weren’t all warriors, they were classified in accordance to talents, some became ministers/governors/ statesmen, some became engineers/architects, craftsmen…the ones without any particular talent (or some physical talent) became soldiers.




Germany and Bulgaria are different. The Turks in Germany are from Eastern Turkey rural areas, therefore have a very high number of kids per family. The Turks in Bulgaria aren’t immigrants at all, and their family size is not much different than Bulgarians.




Other than natural causes you mean? Traffic accidents I guess. It is about 5000 per year.




Because Turkey fought Ottoman Empire during the independence war. Ottoman government relinquished all rights to leading the nation when they sided with the enemy, and sent the Caliphate army to attack the national forces.

The current system of Turkey is similar to democratic monarchies like UK, except that we have a president who is elected, instead of the royalty. Prime minister is the government head, while president merely acts as a supervisor.






Useless, since when are you a Turk? Please don’t clutter the thread.

I have not found of heard of any event in history or today that would point to Turks believing themselves superior to armenians or any other nation. If the same circumstances were to happen with Georgians instead, the outcome would have been the same. Moreover, Armenians specifically were the “trusted people” of the empire.

Even today when there are polls like “Would you mind if your kid gets married to an Armenian/Greek?” and the same question in those countries about marrying a Turk, the most positive answers always come from Turkey. I remember another in which they follow all news in top10 newspapers in Turkey and Greece for a year, and categorize them as positive/negative/neutral; Turkey’s were evenly divided while Greece’s were 85% negative.

I know myself and my people to confidently say that we don’t hate any nation at all. That does not mean we are not aware and wary of the hatred from two nations (and more importantly, their diasporas who keep the hate alive).


Please, keep in mind that this thread is labeled “Ask a Turk”. If you have some buried hatred inside you, this is not the place for it. It is also not the place for you to express your opinion of what Turks might be thinking, based on your weird prejudices. You are free to go and start your own “I hate Turks because…” thread.


I have already posted some references, including some by non-turkish sources. Here's a site I found on top of a quick google search - seems informative. Other than that I know a few people with some grand parents killed by Armenian gangs.

I am not going to debate this.I am just going to state the facts. When i said , do you condemn the Armenian and the other genocides i was refereeing precisely to Turkey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greek_Genocide#Greece_and_Cyprus

Greek of Pontus (an area of Turkey) The death toll according to various sources ranges from 300,000 to 360,000 Anatolian Greeks.

According to the International League for the Rights and Liberation of Peoples, between 1916 and 1923, up to 350,000 Greek Pontians were killed in massacres, persecution and death marches.[15] Merrill D. Peterson cites the death toll of 360,000 for the Greeks of


The Turks extended their policy of exterminating the Christians of the [Ottoman Empire] to the Armenians, Greeks, Syrians, and Lebanese.... According to an Associated Press report, of 500,000 Greeks deported from Thrace, in Asia Minor, an estimated 250,000, or half, died of disease and torture. Starting in 1910, the Ottoman Turks made about one million Greeks homeless and deported hundreds of thousands; as many as 300,000 Greeks died of hunger, disease, and the cold as a result. In the 1920s, the Turkish nationalists massacred about 200,000 more Christians, mostly Greeks, in cities such as Smyrna. Greek men became victims of murder, torture, and starvation; Greek women suffered all this and also became slaves in Muslim households; Greek children wandered the streets as orphans ‘‘half-naked and begging for bread’’; and millions of dollars’ worth of Greek property passed into Muslim hands.[19]

Do i need to repeat the Armenian genocide numbers ? The reason i am bringing this up and not the Holocaust for example is that your country stance on this is unacceptable and as i see also your's. It is also sad that countries such the Usa , France(?) and many more that are considered progressive will not accept those crimes. Personally i believe it will be better for you if you did. Why bring these hate on yourself ? Accept the facts .

I have not found of heard of any event in history or today that would point to Turks believing themselves superior to armenians or any other nation. If the same circumstances were to happen with Georgians instead, the outcome would have been the same. Moreover, Armenians specifically were the “trusted people” of the empire.

The Turks killed all other races in Turkey that was a very important part of the population then and whether the genocide was inspired by superiority complex or racism (yes it did and again this is fact) or even , interest is irrelevant. Turkey for the Turks , wasn't the moto ?




160,000-200,000 Greek Cypriots became refugees.
Yes all of this one occured during the peace operation, but almost all of these people fled their homes by government-fed paronaia without any contact by Turkish troops.

This is quite funny and one of the most rediculous claims i 've seen n this forum. There was an Invasion by thousands of the Turkish military that pllaned from the beginning to anex 35% of the island. The military Killed , Raped and destroyed anything in its road. Those 200 000 Refugees weren't Happy to leave their lives there , but luckily they didn't stay to be butchered instead. If they didn't listen to that " propaganda " there would be another figure of genocide incident to deny .

I hope you see that my position isn't inspired by irrational hatred , though my family and Friends suffered much from your Nationalistic Nation . And as long as you support that Nationalist many more will do. Having a look at your history Books i can see why .
 
I don't know if it's already been asked, but what does turks feel about this movie
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NbYczbBlatA

and this movie
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p9oI7Fd3Uec

These are very funny but not the best. for that you need the Turkish Star Trek!! Now that is very very funny. And I wish I could translate the dialogue to English, it is awesome.

The Guy in the first movie is Cuneyt Arkin. He is a famous actor and still does films but getting rather old (almost 70).

We look at these and laugh our a$$ off (pardon the pun). Probably the 2nd funniest after "The Party" by Peter Sellers. I watched it 6-7 times and I still cry each time!:lol:
 
These are very funny but not the best. for that you need the Turkish Star Trek!! Now that is very very funny. And I wish I could translate the dialogue to English, it is awesome.

The Guy in the first movie is Cuneyt Arkin. He is a famous actor and still does films but getting rather old (almost 70).

We look at these and laugh our a$$ off (pardon the pun). Probably the 2nd funniest after "The Party" by Peter Sellers. I watched it 6-7 times and I still cry each time!:lol:

yeah if you find any copy of the turkish star trek anywhere, watch it without wasting time..
it was chosen 'worlds worst movie'...:)
 
What about travel? Someday in the not so distant future I want to backpack via train from Baku to Istanbul. Would such a journey be safe, and would I be able to communicate in English and modern standard Arabic?
 
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