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Do you agree with this recent Slate article that claims atheists are worse than Muslims to most evangelicals?

Slate: The Christian Candidate's Guide to Infidels

Which is worse for evangelicals like Rick Perry—being an atheist or a Muslim?

A Minnesota-based filmmaker and self-proclaimed atheist won a contest sponsored by the Rick Perry campaign, and his short video was to be shown at one of the evangelical Christian candidate's events over the weekend. Meanwhile, Perry's GOP rival (and fellow Christian) Michele Bachmann indicated on Meet the Press that atheism wouldn't exclude someone from her Cabinet. What's worse from the perspective of a devout Christian—atheism or belonging to another religion like Islam?

Atheism. It's difficult to make blanket statements about the theology of American evangelical Christians, because they don't have a pope to issue statements on the movement's official views. Nor do they have any official religious texts aside from the Bible itself, which predated the modern idea of atheism. Nevertheless, academics who study the movement note without textual evidence that atheism—and the advance of secular culture in the United States and Europe—seems to be a particular bugaboo. To be sure, many American evangelicals have their problems with Islam, but mainstream leaders of the evangelical movement have sought to create understanding between Christians and Muslims, often in very public forums. You may not see as many Christian ministers forging partnerships with Richard Dawkins or Slate's own Christopher Hitchens.

Modern American evangelicals seem to agree with their ancient forebears: If you're not going to be a Christian, at least be a Jew. The original Christians realized that their God had made numerous Old Testament promises to Jews, many of whom did not adopt the Christian faith. Thus Jews occupied a favored position in the non-Christian world and may get a special final opportunity to accept Christ when he returns on Judgment Day. This assumption is based, in part, on the assurance in Paul's letter to the Romans that "all Israel will be saved." American evangelicals cite Paul's letter regularly, and strong support for Israeli security is now a primary element of the evangelical political movement.

The ancient and medieval Christians wouldn't have had much to say about pure atheism, which is an 18th-century concept. Their closest analog would have been Epicureanism—the belief that worldly pleasure matters above all. In Christian-themed literature, at least, Epicureans were held in special contempt: Dante placed Epicurus and his followers in the sixth circle of hell, where their punishment for denying the immortality of the soul was to live out eternity in a fiery tomb. Honorable Muslims and pagans occupied Limbo, the relatively pleasant first circle of hell where the only punishment was the inability to ascend to paradise. A couple of pagans, including an obscure character from the Trojan War named Ripheus, even managed to make the improbable trip to paradise. Ripheus got there based on his strong belief in God's providence, even though he couldn't have accepted Christ during his lifetime. (The message of Ripheus is that God is unpredictable.) Dante had a particular dislike for the indecisive—those we might call agnostics. They wandered around the fringes of hell, and the poet wouldn't even waste his time talking to them.
Should atheists be considered to be epicureans instead of pagans when using Dante's guide to everlasting hell?
 
Should atheists be considered to be epicureans instead of pagans when using Dante's guide to everlasting hell?

I don't see how this fits in "Ask An Atheist." Did you mean to put it in "Ask a Catholic?"

A Catholic on here once told me that the Divine Comedy was simply assumption and held no place in Catholic doctrine. To any non-Catholic Christians this would hold doubly true.
 
What about divinely-inspired insanity?
Sounds like a dick move and a massive flaw in the programming to me.

Also severe mental illness and delusions.

EDIT: Or some religious musical groups from Bengal, India.

I have come to two conclusions.
1. The existence of God is self-evident.
2. Every man is by nature a worshiper as much as he is a rationaly thinking creature. It is up to everyone if he is going to worship reality in its absolute form or in some other(lesser) form.
1. :lol: If popular culture had not constantly mentioned or talked about this god guy I'd never have known that idea even existed. I honestly thought it was some huge joke on The Simpsons when I was little.

2. This makes far less sense than you think it does, because I don't worship anything.

The difference is, people believe in God because they think he's affected their lives - that works as evidence, however impossible it is to prove to anyone else. That's very different to belief in Santa Claus, which has absolutely no evidence at all. The offensive part is to have the arrogance to say that whatever people think God has done for them they must be wrong, because you haven't had the same experience.

Santa Clause brought me presents for years! The milk, cookies and carrots (good for the reindeer and seeing in the dark of course!) I left out were gone! That's as much if not more evidence for Santa Clause's existence than I've ever seen for a god.
 
Santa Clause brought me presents for years! The milk, cookies and carrots (good for the reindeer and seeing in the dark of course!) I left out were gone! That's as much if not more evidence for Santa Clause's existence than I've ever seen for a god.

:lol: OK, fair one. To be honest, if you believed in Santa Claus that seriously then I would consider that belief worth the same sort of respect as religion; it would be most impolite to try to explain to you why I don't believe in Santa Claus.
 
I have come to two conclusions.
1. The existence of God is self-evident.
2. Every man is by nature a worshiper as much as he is a rationaly thinking creature. It is up to everyone if he is going to worship reality in its absolute form or in some other(lesser) form.
Is there an "ask an atheist" question hidden in there somewhere? Otherwise, frame one, or find another thread to proselytise your baseless assumptions.

Thanks in advance.
 
1. :lol: If popular culture had not constantly mentioned or talked about this god guy I'd never have known that idea even existed. I honestly thought it was some huge joke on The Simpsons when I was little.

2. This makes far less sense than you think it does, because I don't worship anything.
.

1. To be quite honest when I have heard first time about the god guy I thought the same... Its also true I didnt arrive to my believe through popular culture, plus I hail from exclusively atheistic background. But I still hold that if one thinks deep and observes the nature of this world and ones own one can arrive at some pretty interesting possibilities... Also it may be the strongly material nature of present day civilisation that gives somewhat complete feeling of self-sufficiency.
From my perspective there may come a time in human life when the need for going beyond regular human relations and other limitations as well arises. And this sort of desire couldnt be fulfiled if there did not exist some other reality. This is not obviously valid for all and can hardly be satisfactorily explained without opening debate on many "out of the scope of science subjects". Yet just simple fact that that such an aspiration exists is sort of a proof in itself.

2.This is Wikipedia:
Worship is an act of religious devotion usually directed towards a deity. The word is derived from the Old English worthscipe, meaning worthiness or worth-ship — to give, at its simplest, worth to something, for example, Christian worship

Now, this is, in my opinion very important meaning. If you give something value in your life - you acknowledge its worth- you immediately open to that thing and and it can have consciously or unconsciously more impact on you. Obviously its not necessarily a religious thing.
 
Is there an "ask an atheist" question hidden in there somewhere? Otherwise, frame one, or find another thread to proselytise your baseless assumptions.

Thanks in advance.

If I make any post here its becouse I want to know what is the atheist position or way of thinking. So yes I am always asking a question.

In any case I am going to minimise my imput here as I have rather exhausted the topics I wanted to discuss.
 
Do you agree with this recent Slate article that claims atheists are worse than Muslims to most evangelicals?

Should atheists be considered to be epicureans instead of pagans when using Dante's guide to everlasting hell?

a) I don't know or care, because I've never met any evangelicals and, if I ever do, they will be in such a small and mocked minority that their opinion won't mean much to me or have any bearing on my life.

b) I don't think you'll find many atheists who would deign to bother giving an answer to that, even if they understood what the question meant, which I don't.
 
:lol: OK, fair one. To be honest, if you believed in Santa Claus that seriously then I would consider that belief worth the same sort of respect as religion; it would be most impolite to try to explain to you why I don't believe in Santa Claus.
I was a child and I grew out of my belief in Santa Clause just like everyone else (I think I was around 12). It was a lie told by my parents and society/culture in a strangely similar way to how religion is spread to children.

EDIT: Although I don't really care if someone believes in a god or gods or not (or Santa Clause). The only thing that matters to me is how their beliefs affect other people, especially if it is in a negative way.

2.This is Wikipedia:
Worship is an act of religious devotion usually directed towards a deity. The word is derived from the Old English worthscipe, meaning worthiness or worth-ship — to give, at its simplest, worth to something, for example, Christian worship

Now, this is, in my opinion very important meaning. If you give something value in your life - you acknowledge its worth- you immediately open to that thing and and it can have consciously or unconsciously more impact on you. Obviously its not necessarily a religious thing.
Again, I don't think that means what you think it means, because otherwise I worship food, water, my home, money, social interactions, my bed, my shower, my computer, and specifc parts of my own body which would make no sense at all.
 
Again, I don't think that means what you think it means, because otherwise I worship food, water, my home, money, social interactions, my bed, my shower, my computer, and specifc parts of my own body which would make no sense at all.

Yes, thats what I mean. You need to think of food, your social relations, etc. All that helps to forms what you are. If you have a good will towards others thats also something you can say you give value to and it starts increasing in your life. In fact anytime you apreciate or concentrate on some reality that thing starts to play more important role in your life especialy when you do it consciously.
In religious worship people through rituals, prayers and so on try to come close to and emulate what they consider highest reality.

In my perspective if someone is, say, a king and he has a lot of wealth and power but he is insecure and has a fear of loosing his wealth he is worse off then guy who gives all importance to his self-control and in spite of having no material possesions or any official authorithy over people he has a nonattachment and peace of mind due to his worship.
 
Yes, thats what I mean. You need to think of food, your social relations, etc. All that helps to forms what you are. If you have a good will towards others thats also something you can say you give value to and it starts increasing in your life. In fact anytime you apreciate or concentrate on some reality that thing starts to play more important role in your life especialy when you do it consciously.
In religious worship people through rituals, prayers and so on try to come close to and emulate what they consider highest reality.

In my perspective if someone is, say, a king and he has a lot of wealth and power but he is insecure and has a fear of loosing his wealth he is worse off then guy who gives all importance to his self-control and in spite of having no material possesions or any official authorithy over people he has a nonattachment and peace of mind due to his worship.

Can you sum up the point/question you are making in one or two sentences? I'm having a lot of trouble trying to fathom out what you're talking about now. I mean, I can read your words and understand what you're saying, but is this supposed to be backing up some other point? Because it seems like slightly off-topic ramblings to me.
 
Yes, thats what I mean. You need to think of food, your social relations, etc. All that helps to forms what you are. If you have a good will towards others thats also something you can say you give value to and it starts increasing in your life. In fact anytime you apreciate or concentrate on some reality that thing starts to play more important role in your life especialy when you do it consciously.
In religious worship people through rituals, prayers and so on try to come close to and emulate what they consider highest reality.

In my perspective if someone is, say, a king and he has a lot of wealth and power but he is insecure and has a fear of loosing his wealth he is worse off then guy who gives all importance to his self-control and in spite of having no material possesions or any official authorithy over people he has a nonattachment and peace of mind due to his worship.
If you remove your nonsensical "connections" to worship from your post it will make sense. Although I do like the idea that my genitalia are a god that needs regular worship.
 
Can you sum up the point/question you are making in one or two sentences? I'm having a lot of trouble trying to fathom out what you're talking about now. I mean, I can read your words and understand what you're saying, but is this supposed to be backing up some other point? Because it seems like slightly off-topic ramblings to me.

Well according to Ziggy I have made a baseless asumption that every human being is a worshiper. The main point what I have written above is very simple. You acknowlidge worth of something means you perfom simple form of worship.
 
If you remove your nonsensical "connections" to worship from your post it will make sense. Although I do like the idea that my genitalia are a god that needs regular worship.

I beg to differ. Did you mean to say they don't make sense to you?
Hey everybody can worship whatever desires.:)
 
Well according to Ziggy I have made a baseless asumption that every human being is a worshiper.
Well, yes, yes you have.

The main point what I have written above is very simple. You acknowlidge worth of something means you perfom simple form of worship.
I think by worth the writer of that definition meant worth as in some kind of higher being/purpose/religious value something. Not just worth as in you place value on your food to survive (which you are implying means that you automatically worship it, which isn't true).


I beg to differ. Did you mean to say they don't make sense to you?
I didn't mis-write it, that is exactly what I said, and it isn't just to me, your logic makes no sense to anyone.

Spoiler :
Hey everybody can worship whatever desires.:)

Sure, but you're definition of worship is wrong, or you really don't know how to express it properly in English.
 
And lo, I hath resurrected the "Ask an Atheist" thread. Bow before my miraculous powers (but skip the whole crucifixion thing. That would suck). Okay seriously, one of my Christian 'friends' gave me a synopsis of William Lane Craig's (their holy debating champion, apparently) books and I thought it was at least interesting enough to bring it before this illustrious council of freethinkers because I get tired and lonely of tearing this stuff up all by myself sometimes.

Spoiler :
• Kalam Cosmological Argument:
– 1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
– 2. The universe began to exist.
– 3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.
– Further investigation of this being shows that it must be Timeless, spaceless, Changeless, immaterial, Uncaused, beginningless, Powerful, Personal (ask if you don’t know why)
• Teleological Argument
– 1. The fine-tuning of the universe is due to either physical necessity, chance, or design.
– 2. It is not due to physical necessity or chance.
– 3. Therefore, it is due to design.
• The Moral Argument
– 1. If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.
– 2. Objective moral values and duties do exist.
– 3. Therefore, God exists


Aside from the fact that this proves nothing about which religion (if any) is true, how would you respond to these points?
 
The moral argument can be tossed completely, but I'd like to know the assumption behind #2 of the Teleological one.
 
Do you ever wonder what it means when a group of 10 atheists and a group of 10 Catholics are both so assured that they are right and the other is wrong? I think everyone would agree that people are fallible - the question is, how does an Atheist or a Catholic reassure themselves that they must be right and the other wrong from a logical/philosophical standpoint? Do you ever have doubts of your firm belief that atheism is correct, given that you (and every other human) can be wrong about so many things?
 
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