Ask an atheist

[Linkman226]

Wait, I don't get it. Who gives a rat's [buttocks] whether life has a meaning or not? Either way, there's no frickin' proof for god. I don't care how much meaning magic brings to your life, it's still a hoax!

 

[Traitorfish]

Because if, at any moment, your existence could end, and what happened in between now and then is irrelevant - the end result is the same. And even if your existence has an impact on the world past your lifespan, that will eventually be gone, and none of it will have mattered - i.e. none of it will have had meaning. If you are going to end up in a certain situation, with the same exact circumstances (this means physical, mental, emotional - all possibilities converge into one) no matter what you do, does it matter what you do? No.

You're making a lot of assumptions here that I do not think are obvious, let alone universal. You have decided that recognising both the fragility of life and the finite nature of existence finds its logical conclusion in a stereotypical nihilism, but you haven't actually explained to us the grounds on which this decision is made. You tell us that actions whose impact is not absolute an eternal are meaningless, but you haven't given us any good reason to accept this. You're assuming that if there is an after-life, these things are no longer the case, even though the existence preceding it is the blink of an eye in comparison, but you haven't told us why. You're just declaring these things to be so, and expecting us to go along with it.

 

[PeteAtoms]

Because if, at any moment, your existence could end, and what happened in between now and then is irrelevant - the end result is the same. And even if your existence has an impact on the world past your lifespan, that will eventually be gone, and none of it will have mattered - i.e. none of it will have had meaning. If you are going to end up in a certain situation, with the same exact circumstances (this means physical, mental, emotional - all possibilities converge into one) no matter what you do, does it matter what you do? No.


I can say that I am divided between Kierkegaard and Nietzsche here - though I usually lean towards Nietzsche; while humans are capable of making value in life for themselves, making that value is pointless, and therefore irrelevant. They can do it, as I am doing right now, but it really doesn't matter either way.

I have a feeling I am getting too abstract, which isn't a good thing for me...

This being the only life we have to live, makes it incredibly precious. I believe I value being alive more than the typical religious person. Because death doesn't mean much when you just keep going.

When there is an afterlife involved, death is a trivial event. In fact, the few decades alive are trivial in the scope of an eternal afterlife. If I did believe in Heaven, my reaction to dying would be "big whoop" or "finally!"

And what we do while we are alive matters, because we can love. I care about people and I care about what the world will be like for them when I'm gone. I want them to be happy because they only have one life as well.

I guess I have the opposite view as you. Life means more to me as an atheist. If I had billions upon billions of eons to look forward to after this world, I wouldn't feel much attachment to being alive. In fact, I would welcome an early death.

 

[Linkman226]

This being the only life we have to live, makes it incredibly precious. I believe I value being alive more than the typical religious person. Because death doesn't mean much when you just keep going.

When there is an afterlife involved, death is a trivial event. In fact, the few decades alive are trivial in the scope of an eternal afterlife. If I did believe in Heaven, my reaction to dying would be "big whoop."

And what we do while we are alive matters, because we can love. I care about people and I care about what the world will be like for them when I'm gone. I want them to be happy because they only have one life as well.

I guess I have the opposite view as you. Life means more to me as an atheist. If I had billions upon billions of eons to look forward to after this world, I wouldn't feel much attachment to being alive. In fact, I would welcome an early death.

 

[NiRv4n4]

You're making a lot of assumptions here that I do not think are obvious, let alone universal. You have decided that recognising both the fragility of life and the finite nature of existence finds its logical conclusion in a stereotypical nihilism, but you haven't actually explained to us the grounds on which this decision is made. You tell us that actions whose impact is not absolute an eternal are meaningless, but you haven't given us any good reason to accept this. You're assuming that if there is an after-life, these things are no longer the case, even though the existence preceding it is the blink of an eye in comparison, but you haven't told us why. You're just declaring these things to be so, and expecting us to go along with it.

Because at the end of existence (or the point where nothing happens), any previous actions will have been irrelevant. How so? Because their effects are nullified, and lead to something that will be achieved regardless of what occurs. I am having a hard time coming up with how I reach this, though it may be more my fault than my thought-system's fault - I ain't in best thinkin' condition. How do you, as an atheist, reconcile with the fact that regardless of what you do, it will all boil down to the same, boring, uniform thing?

This being the only life we have to live, makes it incredibly precious. I believe I value being alive more than the typical religious person. Because death doesn't mean much when you just keep going.

When there is an afterlife involved, death is a trivial event. In fact, the few decades alive are trivial in the scope of an eternal afterlife. If I did believe in Heaven, my reaction to dying would be "big whoop" or "finally!"

And what we do while we are alive matters, because we can love. I care about people and I care about what the world will be like for them when I'm gone. I want them to be happy because they only have one life as well.

I guess I have the opposite view as you. Life means more to me as an atheist. If I had billions upon billions of eons to look forward to after this world, I wouldn't feel much attachment to being alive. In fact, I would welcome an early death.

But why spend your life "happy", and wish that upon others? Since when did "happy" become the new thing? If I ever have descendents (doubtful) I would want for them to be like me, minus the nihilism; that is, they care little of their own happiness, but they do care about their existence and the existence of others. In a way, I've decided to force myself to feel that way, to assume my nihilistic assumptions are wrong, and to devote my existence to the existence of others. So not really making other people happy, just giving them a chance to be.

 

[Linkman226]

Why do I need to?

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Being dead isn't boring and uniform, because boredom requires consciousness.

 

[Linkman226]

 

[NiRv4n4]

Being dead isn't boring and uniform, because boredom requires consciousness.

I am not referring to death as boring and uniform, I am referring to the Universe in 100 trillion years being boring and uniform. May be far off, but it's comin', I tell ye!

 

[PeteAtoms]

But why spend your life "happy", and wish that upon others? Since when did "happy" become the new thing? If I ever have descendents (doubtful) I would want for them to be like me, - the nihilism; that is, they care little of their own happiness, but they do care about their existence and the existence of others. In a way, I've decided to force myself to feel that way, to assume my nihilistic assumptions are wrong, and to devote my existence to the existence of others. So not really making other people happy, just giving them a chance to be.

Being alive isn't worth it if you're miserable, IMO. You make the most of what you have. Why be happy? Are you serious? That's a fairly intrinsic desire. You don't need God to want to be happy or to love.

I feel sorry for you if you don't care about other people being happy or being happy yourself.

"Happy" isn't that new a thing either

 

[Linkman226]

I am not referring to death as boring and uniform, I am referring to the Universe in 100 trillion years being boring and uniform. May be far off, but it's comin', I tell ye!

Again, it's not boring unless there's living creatures to FIND it boring.

 

[Traitorfish]

Because at the end of existence (or the point where nothing happens), any previous actions will have been irrelevant. How so? Because their effects are nullified, and lead to something that will be achieved regardless of what occurs. I am having a hard time coming up with how I reach this, though it may be more my fault than my thought-system's fault - I ain't in best thinkin' condition. How do you, as an atheist, reconcile with the fact that regardless of what you do, it will all boil down to the same, boring, uniform thing?

"Relevance" is subjective, whether or not you believe in the eternity of the concious mind, so I don't see why those of us who do not should be discouraged by that. Yes, the universe will end up as a grey, freezing soup no matter what I do, but I don't do things to impress the universe, I do things because they matter to me and those whom I interact with. It seems to me that you're taking your own preoccupation with an ever-watching deity and imposing it on to humanity at large.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

If you're referring to the heat death the of the universe, I would think that would mean the death of all organic life as well. No one will be around to complain about how boring it is, unless they've been given eternal life, of course.

EDIT: massive X-post.

 

[PeteAtoms]

IIRC, Mark Twain once said something like this:

I didn't mind the billions of years before I was born, so why would I mind the billions of years after I die?

 

[Orka]

I am not referring to death as boring and uniform, I am referring to the Universe in 100 trillion years being boring and uniform. May be far off, but it's comin', I tell ye!

100 trillion is a long time. In 300 years humanity went from a primitive agricultural to a advanced industrial society so powerful we could destroy the very planet we live on (though we shouldn't, of course! ). A lot things way beyond our imaginations will happen long before the universe starts getting gray hairs. Don't make such dreary assumptions about what will happen long away.

 

[Maniacal]

I'll be surprised if our species is still around in 100,000 years, little alone 100 trillion.

 

[NiRv4n4]

Being alive isn't worth it if you're miserable, IMO. You make the most of what you have. Why be happy? Are you serious? That's a fairly intrinsic desire. You don't need God to want to be happy or to love.

I feel sorry for you if you don't care about other people being happy or being happy yourself.

"Happy" isn't that new a thing either

Spoiler :

Hey man, I figure if I take away my nihilism, my value goes from 0 to .0001. So while .0001 times 7 billion = 7 million (I think...), which is a lot, .0001 (my life) times 1 = .0001, which ain't a lot. Of course, I can try to improve the value of my life to others by having an effect on this world, but to me it is always .0001. So how I feel is irrelevant, how I act - not necessarily.

Again, it's not boring unless there's living creatures to FIND it boring.

What would you, as an atheist, say to the fact that humans are (seemingly) the only creatures capable of finding something boring? That we have a drive that nothing else does? Is there any explanation other than our brains are too complex for our own good?

"Relevance" is subjective, whether or not you believe in the eternity of the conscious mind, so I don't see why those of us who do not should be discouraged by that. Yes, the universe will end up as a grey, freezing soup no matter what I do, but I don't do things to impress the universe, I do things because they matter to me and those whom I interact with. It seems to me that you're taking your own preoccupation with an ever-watching deity and imposing it on to humanity at large.

I guess that makes sense - it really is the way everyone lives their lives, regardless of their beliefs - they live because living matters. The thing is, why does it matter? Why do our brains say "this matters!" when there wouldn't seem to be that much of an evolutionary utility to do so? How does atheism explain this?

IIRC, Mark Twain once said something like this:

I didn't mind the billions of years before I was born, so why would I mind the billions of years after I die?

Well, those billions of years matter to me a billion times more than the last few years of my life - to think the only part of the universe that matters is the part I can experience doesn't bode for me.

 

[Linkman226]

I dunno if other creatures find something boring. Does it matter?

 

[Eat_Up_Martha]

I guess that makes sense - it really is the way everyone lives their lives, regardless of their beliefs - they live because living matters. The thing is, why does it matter? Why do our brains say "this matters!" when there wouldn't seem to be that much of an evolutionary utility to do so? How does atheism explain this?

I don't think you have the surest grasp on the evolutionary process.

 

[NiRv4n4]

I dunno if other creatures find something boring. Does it matter?

Well, I think it does - the more unique the human species is, the more likely it seems that there is more to life than what an atheism believes.

I don't think you have the surest grasp on the evolutionary process.

I guess everything can be traced back to some evolutionary utility, but human society has grown so far out of touch with that, in my opinion. It is not evolutionarily feasible for women to starve themselves to look attractive, when they can loose fertility. It is not evolutionarily feasible for people to be asexual or homosexual. It is not evolutionarily feasible for people to spend time typing words into a screen to talk to people who they don't know at all. Evolution would tell us - eat, mate, sleep, and try not to die too early.