At least 50 dead in Florida nightclub terrorist attack.

[Old Hippy]

You blamed us for forming a union with slavery, what was the alternative?

I did not blame you for having a Union with slavery in it. I pointed out why the South is blamed for embracing slavery
You pointed out a war was fought over it, yet you are still 'touchy' about it surely you should embrace the fact that it is no longer in effect, but like the Germans, can not really complain about Hitler being brought up and yet someone did ask

Why single out the south and whites?
.

Then get offended by someone pointing out the high ideals you declared your independence with

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

I don't see what the problem is

 

[Bugfatty300]

Would slavery have every ended in the south? Would it still be with us today?

Certainly at some point industrialization and international pressure/sanctions would have made slavery not worth keeping around anymore.

Blacks outnumbered whites by huge factor in much of the south so a post-slavery 1900s century CSA would have probably been structured like Apartheid South Africa or maybe the former slaves would have ended up in charge fairly early on.

 

[abradley]

I did not blame you for having a Union with slavery in it. I pointed out why the South is blamed for embracing slavery
You pointed out a war was fought over it, yet you are still 'touchy' about it surely you should embrace the fact that it is no longer in effect, but like the Germans, can not really complain about Hitler being brought up and yet someone did ask
Then get offended by someone pointing out the high ideals you declared your independence with
I don't see what the problem is

Your wrong I am not touchy about it, I reply to people like you who bring it up.

Am perfectly happy with our Declaration of Independence and pure happy we formed a union when we did.

If you don't see what the problem is, why bring it up?

 

[Old Hippy]

Your wrong I am not touchy about it, I reply to people like you who bring it up.

Am perfectly happy with our Declaration of Independence and pure happy we formed a union when we did.

If you don't see what the problem is, why bring it up?

I did not "bring it Up''
I was replying to a question that someone posted and quoted that in my answer, actually twice

can't help it if people don't read the bit I'm responding too

 

[abradley]

I did not "bring it Up''
I was replying to a question that someone posted and quoted that in my answer, actually twice

can't help it if people don't read the bit I'm responding too

Are you referring to this post http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14360745&postcount=534

It appears you brought up the Declaration of Independence. Why in earth did you bring that up?

 

[Old Hippy]

Are you referring to this post http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14360745&postcount=534

It appears you brought up the Declaration of Independence. Why in earth did you bring that up?

yes, why bring it up, because as usual it was pointed out that all countries have been founded on slavery, so I pointed out that the US was not, it was founded on principles that did not accept slavery

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

that is the reason I brought it up in the context of someone asking

you've established that every group of people is pretty much guilty of slavery at some point and everything was founded on slavery. So what? Why single out the south and whites?

that is a reason to single out the south and remind people that it was not the norm and the word white was dropped from the final draft of the declaration, tho it was in earlier drafts, because it was seen as odious and the US set a world standard on human rights applying to all men, why people back away from the US being #1 on rights, baffles me

 

[Hygro]

I'm sorry if I was being a bit brash. If you didn't know the historical context of slavery and how wide spread and common it really was that's not your fault. People have been intentionally told a very narrow version of events that really doesn't reflect reality.

I just get really frustrated trying to get through to people about this kind of stuff, especially when I am constantly accused of being a racist for stating objective facts that aren't part of the mainstream narrative.

But the part I haven't figured out is, how is any of this relevant?

 

[Lexicus]

Before you make statement like that do some research:We've all had our time in the barrel, get over it.

Almost literally everything in that article is false.
Irish people were taken to the New World in penal servitude or indentured servitude, not as chattel slaves because of their race.

I'm sorry if I was being a bit brash. If you didn't know the historical context of slavery and how wide spread and common it really was that's not your fault. People have been intentionally told a very narrow version of events that really doesn't reflect reality.

I just get really frustrated trying to get through to people about this kind of stuff, especially when I am constantly accused of being a racist for stating objective facts that aren't part of the mainstream narrative.

I will say though, if you are going to make big accusations of white supremacy and institutionalized racism you should really know what you're talking about.

Irony smote
All you know is white supremacist nonsense. It's clear for example you know almost nothing about slavery, except what you researched in white supremacist circles to be able to defend the Confederacy in online arguments. You also know less than nothing (ie, you know lies) about the causes of the American Civil War.

You should look up Dunning-Kruger. And I reject your "apology" out of hand.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

So the shooter supported slavery and was angry at gay people because he blamed them for starting the civil war?

 

[Senethro]

So the shooter supported slavery and was angry at gay people because he blamed them for starting the civil war?

I am actually, sincerely sorry for the derail. At the time I was reaching for an example of showing evidence to the close minded, I did think about instead using an example of discussing glaciation with a young earth creationist, but I thought it too insulting. Might have dodged this though. Or been worse.

 

[Senethro]

You also don't have the first clue as to what a white supremacist is, but something tells me you're going to see a whole lot of them in the very near future. Take notes. You're going to learn a lot about how wild your accusations of 'white supremacy" have been when you finally get to meet the real deal.

So you're not a white supremacist, you just think their rise is inevitable, soon, and that they'll do something to me that will make me regret meeting them?

What an indirectly stated and cowardly/idle threat.

 

[civman110]

So you're not a white supremacist, you just think their rise is inevitable, soon, and that they'll do something to me that will make me regret meeting them?

Pretty much.

Keep kicking that hornets nest with your incessant racial hen pecking. Let me know how that works out for you guys.

All you know is white supremacist nonsense. It's clear for example you know almost nothing about slavery, except what you researched in white supremacist circles to be able to defend the Confederacy in online arguments. You also know less than nothing (ie, you know lies) about the causes of the American Civil War.

You should look up Dunning-Kruger. And I reject your "apology" out of hand.

LOL.

I wonder what side people like you are going to force people like me to choose when things get to the point where everyone is forced to pick a side, because working with any of you is clearly not an option. You're a bunch of extremists.

Moderator Action: This infraction covers all of your behavior since Senethro brought up the Confederate flag in an attempt to get you to respond in exactly the way you did. Both of you are getting 3 points and 3 days off: him for trolling you, you for taking the bait.

You have spent the last several pages of the thread posting aggressively about the Confederacy, racism, and slavery, with a number of insinuations that your opponents are ignorant or stupid. You went on to expand your argument to include things like "However, whites are held to a different standard. The left just wants to treat whites and southerners like a whipping post for some demented reason," which you must surely have known would set off even more furious and irrelevant arguments. None of this was even relevant to this thread. Further, this is an RD thread, so the moderation is considerably stricter than average.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Bootstoots]

Moderator Action: This thread is not about slavery or racism. That tangent ends now.

 

[tetley]

I'm sorry for whatever OT stuff I contributed. I think I just got my threads mixed up.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Since this attacker was killed once someone with a gun finally showed up, we may never know his true motive.

 

[abradley]

yes, why bring it up, because as usual it was pointed out that all countries have been founded on slavery, so I pointed out that the US was not, it was founded on principles that did not accept slavery

that is the reason I brought it up in the context of someone askingthat is a reason to single out the south and remind people that it was not the norm and the word white was dropped from the final draft of the declaration, tho it was in earlier drafts, because it was seen as odious and the US set a world standard on human rights applying to all men, why people back away from the US being #1 on rights, baffles me

Do you have a link/reference for the word 'White' being in the early drafts of the constitution?

Moderator Action: Infraction for ignoring moderator action message.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[BvBPL]

Noor Salman, Omar Mateen's widow, found not guilty.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

She was charged with aiding and abetting right? I don't trust NY times further than I can throw a cinder block, but it's not a surprising verdict based on what's written there. Prosecution would need to show she did things directly related to the specific attack and it appears they didn't do that. Concluding it's likely that she "knew something was up" would not be enough to conclude aiding/abetting as I understand it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

She was charged with aiding and abetting right? I don't trust NY times further than I can throw a cinder block, but it's not a surprising verdict based on what's written there. Prosecution would need to show she did things directly related to the specific attack and it appears they didn't do that. Concluding it's likely that she "knew something was up" would not be enough to conclude aiding/abetting as I understand it.

You understand correctly. Law enforcement is trying to find the ideal case where the crime is so horrific that they can get away with criminalizing refusal to do their jobs for them. Currently, "see something, say something" is just a request, but they are working on making it a legally bound task.

 

[rah]

"see something, say something"

God, that's part of one of he automated messages that the Chicago Metra continually bombards you with. So much so (as a daily commuter) that even the mention of it irritates me.