Athiest's Lawsuit Fails...

[blackheart]

Back to the OP

How has having "In God We Trust" on our money harmed anyone in all the years it has been done?

No, not really. But then again it's a starting point for fundamentalists to claim a heap precedence on a heap of religous issues they think they should enforce.

Secondly, isnt this a case where the plaintiff's relgious views are trying to be forced onto all the rest of us in the USA?

It's been answered, but here it goes again. No, it isn't the plaintiff's religious views being forced. If the phrase "In God we trust" were to be replaced with "God doesn't exist" or whatever other atheistic phrase you can think of, then it could be a forcing of religion.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

But there's no way they could have known what the future would bring. To base almost everything in our government on a good, but slightly outdated piece of paper, and the founding fathers, is putting way too much emphasis on the past, when things were different when compared to nowadays.

The founding fathers were aware of this and that is why the constitution, (unlike the bible ), was made to be changeable and to adapt as our world, our situation, and our morality advances. There are amendments that do away with obsolete and immoral practices like slavery.

If for example we really wanted "In God We Trust" on our currency all we have to do is amend the constitution to include this.

 

[tomsnowman123]

The founding fathers were aware of this and that is why the constitution, (unlike the bible ), was made to be changeable and to adapt as our world, our situation, and our morality advances. There are amendments that do away with obsolete and immoral practices like slavery.

If for example we really wanted "In God We Trust" on our currency all we have to do is amend the constitution to include this.

But is is very difficult to change it, taht's why it has had so few amendments since the Bill of Rights.

 

[IglooDame]

But is is very difficult to change it, taht's why it has had so few amendments since the Bill of Rights.

You'd prefer that flag burning and gay marriage get banned via the amendment process?

 

[tomsnowman123]

You'd prefer that flag burning and gay marriage get banned via the amendment process?

No. It's just that we are forced to follow views from the past so often, we glorify the Constitution and Founding Fathers like gods.

 

[IglooDame]

No. It's just that we are forced to follow views from the past so often, we glorify the Constitution and Founding Fathers like gods.

Hmmm, maybe that's the true inspiration behind that phrase on all our currency...

Edit: anyway, you can't have it both ways. If we aren't going to stick to the Constitution and the precedents defined by the FFs, we're going to get bread&circuses stuff like gay marriage bans, flag-burning bans, Prohibition (um whups), etc all the time.

 

[tomsnowman123]

Hmmm, maybe that's the true inspiration behind that phrase on all our currency...

Edit: anyway, you can't have it both ways. If we aren't going to stick to the Constitution and the precedents defined by the FFs, we're going to get bread&circuses stuff like gay marriage bans, flag-burning bans, Prohibition (um whups), etc all the time.

Unless all the people get to vote. Then we will only have one of those three.

 

[Atlas14]

This man was obviously begging for attention, and as MobBoss already pointed out, this man was in no way hurt. The coinage is not attempting to brainwash or convert this man to believe in God or follow Christianity.

Who the flip even pays attention to the wording on the money anyways? This guy can easily just ignore it. If he takes the time to read an inscripture on coinage everyday to remind himself of the tyranny and oppression of Christianity the USA is trying to impose upon him, he has way to much time and is reading way to far into things. THis is a petty man, a petty case, and shouldn't even be taken seriously. It is a historical set of wording, and I believe that it truly belongs on our currency as a monumental purpose, not because I want everyone to believe in God. It is obvious this guy was just looking to stir up trouble because instead of simply ignoring and not even paying attention to what is written on our currency (like most people do anyways), he chose to make a huge deal out of it, and thus draw even more attention to the specific wording than it deserves.

 

[IglooDame]

Unless all the people get to vote. Then we will only have one of those three.

Okay, what do you favor as the mechanism/votes to amend the US Constitution?

 

[IglooDame]

This man was obviously begging for attention, and as MobBoss already pointed out, this man was in no way hurt. The coinage is not attempting to brainwash or convert this man to believe in God or follow Christianity.

Who the flip even pays attention to the wording on the money anyways? This guy can easily just ignore it. If he takes the time to read an inscripture on coinage everyday to remind himself of the tyranny and oppression of Christianity the USA is trying to impose upon him, he has way to much time and is reading way to far into things. THis is a petty man, a petty case, and shouldn't even be taken seriously. It is a historical set of wording, and I believe that it truly belongs on our currency as a monumental purpose, not because I want everyone to believe in God. It is obvious this guy was just looking to stir up trouble because instead of simply ignoring and not even paying attention to what is written on our currency (like most people do anyways), he chose to make a huge deal out of it, and thus draw even more attention to the specific wording than it deserves.

It belongs on our currency as a "monumental purpose", that everyone should be ignoring?

 

[MobBoss]

A deist does not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is a pretty big deal to christians.

Two things. I am under the impression that deists could very well be christians except that they believe that God is simply disinterested in the frothy dealings of man and is simply God but without all the meddling.

Secondly, when a supposed deist like Washington says "“ O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father" it most certainly sounds to me like he believes in the divinity of Jesus.

 

[IglooDame]

Two things. I am under the impression that deists could very well be christians except that they believe that God is simply disinterested in the frothy dealings of man and is simply God but without all the meddling.

Sure. And they could as easily be Jews, Muslims, or Hindus. A God that is disinterested in man seems unlikely to send his only Son to save man, yes?

 

[tomsnowman123]

Okay, what do you favor as the mechanism/votes to amend the US Constitution?

Um... no government...at all. Or constitution, for that matter.

I think the two-thirds for either congress or state legislatures to propose an amendment should be lowered to majority, and amendments should only have to be ratified by two-thirds of the states instead of three-fourths, unless the 2/3 have a minority in terms of population (is that possible?).

 

[.Shane.]

I think the two-thirds for either congress or state legislatures to propose an amendment should be lowered to majority, and amendments should only have to be ratified by two-thirds of the states instead of three-fourths, unless the 2/3 have a minority in terms of population (is that possible?).

Oh, god no. Why not just have mob rule?

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Two things. I am under the impression that deists could very well be christians except that they believe that God is simply disinterested in the frothy dealings of man and is simply God but without all the meddling.

You could answer this better than I could. Does being a christian require believing that Jesus Christ was divine?

If the answer is yes, then deists are not christians, and as I mentioned were traditionally tortured and murdered as heretics because they did not believe in the divinity of Christ.

Secondly, when a supposed deist like Washington says "“ O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father" it most certainly sounds to me like he believes in the divinity of Jesus.

Or he's just being a good politician? How many of today's professed politicians claim to be christian for the masses but aren't christian deep down inside?

Washington does sound like a christian to me too, but he also seemed to value learning and science ahead of his faith and had a healthy disdain for what religion had done to mankind's relations so far:

"In those parts of the world where learning and science have prevailed, miracles have ceased; but in those parts of it as are barbarous and ignorant, miracles are still in vogue." - George Washington, address to Congress, 8 January, 1790


"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society." - George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham

 

[tomsnowman123]

Oh, god no. Why not just have mob rule?

You still have to have a pretty vast majority in order to pass an amendment, and I don't really buy the whole "mob rule" thing. If a majority want it, than why not?

 

[MobBoss]

Sure. And they could as easily be Jews, Muslims, or Hindus. A God that is disinterested in man seems unlikely to send his only Son to save man, yes?

/shrug. Maybe he didnt get disinterested till after we killed Jesus.

 

[MobBoss]

You could answer this better than I could. Does being a christian require believing that Jesus Christ was divine?

If the answer is yes, then deists are not christians, and as I mentioned were traditionally tortured and murdered as heretics because they did not believe in the divinity of Christ.

Once more, being a deist does not necessarily mean that one does not believe in the divinity of Christ: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&defl=en&q=define:Deist&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title While it could certainly be the view of some, its not a defining requirement to be a deist.

Or he's just being a good politician? How many of today's professed politicians claim to be christian for the masses but aren't christian deep down inside?

That earns you a as it was from his private prayer journal, not a press release.

Washington does sound like a christian to me too, but he also seemed to value learning and science ahead of his faith and had a healthy disdain for what religion had done to mankind's relations so far:

Listen up...as a christian I also confess that organized religion in of itself has done a lot in Gods name that God wouldnt endorse. It has done a lot of good yes, but in turn, it has done a lot of bad as well when powerful and selfish men use the church for their own ends. Its one of the reasons I dont go to large churchs, but have always gone to smaller churchs. I am not a big fan of large church beauracracy. That doesnt make me a deist however.

 

[Pyrite]

"Maybe he didnt get disinterested till after we killed Jesus"

Maybe we accidentally killed god....and he actually died!

 

[.Shane.]

If a majority want it, than why not?

Because most people are idiots who have no idea what they're really voting for.