August 2020 Developer Livestream Discussion

IvoryPavane

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If they want this change to be a boon to Scotland (and I suspect they did because they altered the golf course to accommodate the changes), then they should leave Scotland at +3 amenities = ecstatic.

This would be a more meaningful buff as it means they could achieve these bonuses more readily than other Civs. The ability could be something like “National pride” as we do tend to be inexplicably proud to be Scottish haha.

And as a proud Scotswoman, I can assure you all that golf doesn’t make me particularly happy so the 2 amenities are wasted on me :)
 

hhhhhh

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As someone just pointed out to me, Liang's city park promotion may now be slightly more interesting since it gives +1 amenity if it's next to water. (Something worth consider if you are in a Secret Society game since governor's titles are abundent.)
 

8housesofelixir

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As someone just pointed out to me, Liang's city park promotion may now be slightly more interesting since it gives +1 amenity if it's next to water. (Something worth consider if you are in a Secret Society game since governor's titles are abundent.)

Ski Resort is also a not-civ-specific improvement that gives +1 amenity, although it will come online much later than Liang's city park (after ideology).
 

bbbt

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This change is a little surprising, because I was actually expecting a game mode that would alter amenities and loyalty to make empire management and war more difficult. We'll see what happens.
 

Pietato

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So can you blind research techs now? Like have no idea what you are researching until it is finished, like Alpha Centauri?

The tier 2 government plaza building buffs were nice, seeing as the spies were overwhelmingly picked, but yeah, Audience Chamber needs a buff. I used it as the Mayans and it still felt crap.

Disappointed there were no Hermetic Order buffs, but maybe that will be next patch. Did anyone ask about this?

As someone just pointed out to me, Liang's city park promotion may now be slightly more interesting since it gives +1 amenity if it's next to water. (Something worth consider if you are in a Secret Society game since governor's titles are abundent.)

I have found Liang to be pretty useless since the Shipyard buff, outside of a single point.
 

reddishrecue

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I get some use out of city parks with certain leaders but I also find her to be pretty underwhelming overall.
I can't even use her right especially when there's a lot of damage from disasters since I spend my governor promotions on other governors like Pingala or Moksha. I would use Liang for reinforced materials.
 

8housesofelixir

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I have found Liang to be pretty useless since the Shipyard buff, outside of a single point.

Liang's builder +1 charge is good, reinforced materials is situationally good, other promotions are more situational.

I personally found Liang's promotions adequate, since IMHO governors should be situational for coping with specific situations. Pingala is too general for me; not to say he is bad, but I think he is unbalanced compare to other governors (besides the super chops of Magus).
 

Eagle Pursuit

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Liang's builder +1 charge is good, reinforced materials is situationally good, other promotions are more situational.

I personally found Liang's promotions adequate, since IMHO governors should be situational for coping with specific situations. Pingala is too general for me; not to say he is bad, but I think he is unbalanced compare to other governors (besides the super chops of Magus).

She's good if you find a Natural Wonder volcano. Put a city there and her reinforced materials and have a darn nice city.
 

acluewithout

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I would like to see Audience Chamber actually give rewards for having tall cities.

If they were going to buff Audience Chamber, I’d like to see it’s buff apply automatically to your capital or the City where you have the AC.

I think the fear with AC is that you won’t have enough Governors to go around. Knowing that one key City is always covered would help alleviate that.

This change is a little surprising, because I was actually expecting a game mode that would alter amenities and loyalty to make empire management and war more difficult. We'll see what happens.

I wouldn’t rule it out. Indeed, this change may have been to set up other Game Mode or changes that will impact amenities and or happiness. Indeed, I sort of wonder if the Secret Society Mode wasn’t added ahead of adding some tougher game modes or balance changes. ie give players an optional “power” mode, so newer / weaker players have a leg up when playing using more punishing game modes.

So can you blind research techs now? Like have no idea what you are researching until it is finished, like Alpha Centauri?

Shuffle looks really interesting. I like how Eurekas let you peek ahead - that will be a fun dynamic.

I do think there’s a strong case for also having optional random Eurekas, in the sense of each tech has maybe two Eurekas and each game it’s randomly one or the other. As people have pointed out, there’s a Mod that does that, but that feels a bit like the missing piece from Shuffle Mode. But even without that, I think it’ll be a really fun mode (provided you can get over some of the anachronisms shuffle pre-reqs will cause).

Disappointed there were no Hermetic Order buffs, but maybe that will be next patch.

Good grief. I really hope they take another look at the two existing game modes. There is a lot of potential with both, that really needs so balance tweaks to tease out.

eg
  • Apocalypse Mode. Give Soothsayers some sort of pre-requisite. Just crazy everyone starts with them.
  • Apocalypse Mode. Give us some other ways to mess with Disasters too. Maybe an Apostle promotion or some Religious Beliefs.
  • Secret Societies Mode. Tone down the free Governor Promotions or make the, optional.
  • Secret Societies Mode. Tweak discovery a bit, so it’s a bit more about Diplo Visibility and less about popping Barb Camps etc. As it is, the whole discovery via Diplo Visibility is just irrelevant, because you’ve found almost all the Societies via barb camps etc. by turn 50.

  • Secret Societies Mode. Give having a SS some trade-offs behind relationship modifiers, even if it’s just negative Alliance Points for Civs with different Societies.
  • Secret Societies Mode. Buff Hermetic Order. Tone down Void Singers a tad.
 

bbbt

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Liang's builder +1 charge is good, reinforced materials is situationally good, other promotions are more situational.

I personally found Liang's promotions adequate, since IMHO governors should be situational for coping with specific situations. Pingala is too general for me; not to say he is bad, but I think he is unbalanced compare to other governors (besides the super chops of Magus).

I think Pingala is my favorite solely because I never have to move him.
 

8housesofelixir

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If they were going to buff Audience Chamber, I’d like to see it’s buff apply automatically to your capital or the City where you have the AC.
I think the fear with AC is that you won’t have enough Governors to go around. Knowing that one key City is always covered would help alleviate that.

Very much agree, governors and governor titles are not in great supply when you are able to build the Audience Chamber (unless SS).
Secret Societies Mode. Tone down the free Governor Promotions or make the, optional.

If I recall correctly Anton said something along the lines of "Free Promotions are working as intended".



And also, I don't know, did any of the devs have implied that they will revisit the gamemodes in the future (as of now)?
 

acluewithout

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Anton said something along the lines of "Free Promotions are working as intended".

Anton did say that. It was something like Secret Society Mode was meant to give players a big power spike, and they thought free Governor titles worked with that.

I’m saying I don’t agree with Anton. The Secret Society abilities + free Governor titles is just way too strong.

My suggestion would be that once a player adopts a Secret Society, no more players can discover the Society via the map eg via Barb Huts or whatever . After that, you can only discover that particular Society via Diplo Vision.

That would fix a few problems. First, it would be more of a competition to discover Secret Societies early. Second, you’d have more incentive to pick Societies early to make it harder for other Civs to get that Society. Third, it would make the discovery via Diplo Visibility more important. Fourth, it would nerf the free Governor titles a little, because you’d likely not discover so many Societies in the first 50 turns.

I don't know, did any of the devs have implied that they will revisit the gamemodes in the future as of now?

No, I don’t know if they will revisit any Game Modes.

FXS has solicited feedback on the Game Modes via Twitter. They even asked people what other disasters people wanted to see (lots of people said Earthquakes). So, that suggests they might tweak the Game Modes a little in the future.
 

Pietato

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No. It looks good nonetheless imo.

:(

She's good if you find a Natural Wonder volcano. Put a city there and her reinforced materials and have a darn nice city.

She annoyed me because she kept stopping my forest fires. Do you know if she stops yields from other disasters?

My suggestion would be that once a player adopts a Secret Society, no more players can discover the Society via the map eg via Barb Huts or whatever . After that, you can only discover that particular Society via Diplo Vision.

That would not be fun, as the player would most likely miss out a lot. Joining the societies right now is prtty lame, and does need a change though.

Also, they really do need to reduce the extra governor promotions to just one
 

AntSou

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My suggestion would be that once a player adopts a Secret Society, no more players can discover the Society via the map eg via Barb Huts or whatever . After that, you can only discover that particular Society via Diplo Vision.

That would fix a few problems. First, it would be more of a competition to discover Secret Societies early. Second, you’d have more incentive to pick Societies early to make it harder for other Civs to get that Society. Third, it would make the discovery via Diplo Visibility more important. Fourth, it would nerf the free Governor titles a little, because you’d likely not discover so many Societies in the first 50 turns.

I think that's unnecessary. All we need is not to get a governor title each time we discover one of the three remaining societies.

I don't find it fun to get so many governor titles early on, and would rather have to choose between promoting my Secret Society to tier 2/3/4, or use it on Pingala/Marcus, etc.
 

acluewithout

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That would not be fun, as the player would most likely miss out a lot. Joining the societies right now is prtty lame, and does need a change though.

Also, they really do need to reduce the extra governor promotions to just one

Fair enough.

I don’t really mind how it gets tweaked. Main thing for me is just less free Gov Titles so early and, ideally, discovering Secret Societies being a bit more interesting / less repetitive and or involving the Diplo Visibility mechanics more.

I really do think it’d be a bit more fun if you had to use friendships and alliances more to get certain Secret Socities, eg if I had to make friends or get an alliance with Persia or Zulu etc to access Sanguine Pack. That make it feel a bit more like I had to search for these “Secret” Societies, and would maybe give Diplomacy just a little bit more relevance.

It would slow getting Societies a bit, but I wouldn’t mind that. I often don’t really rush to join any Societies - early game, the normal Governor promotions seem more impactful.
 
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