Australian Imam regarding Aussie girls' dress: "The uncovered meat is the problem"

[Katheryn]

Sorry PoL but I side with Katheryn on this one; Muslim males have a strange tendency to become either terrorists or rapist, sometimes both if they really work hard
Christians however have a great sense of respect towards women, Christianity considers men and women equals, want an example? emmmmmmmmm, just count the number of Popes and Bishops today and throughout History, they are evenly divided between men and women
Christians males do however have a tendency to become child molesters
Some work very hard and succeed to become both Boshop and child molester

Just curious, and FYI, Protestant Christians do not believe that Catholics are actually Chrisitans. It is the 'Mary is a Co-Redeemer' thing. We consider that idolatry.

And what does a Pope have to do with rape of women anyway? A big stretch there.

Tell us Hannibal, how many Christians are rioting in your suburbs?

It's so funny how if anyone mentions some awful behavior done by a Muslim, the immediate reaction of an atheist is to drag some Christian into it, as though they have to defend this barbaric Muslim religion.

 

[Katheryn]

Quote:
These Muslim boys are brought up to think that women are SATAN'S TOOL so women do not get respect. They are told that women are less than nothing,


This depends on the father. Not all are raised like this.


Quote:
they are stupid, evil and cannot be trusted


Sounds like how most Americans view the opposite sex. (Women and men)

I hear ya, but sheesh! That they are told this is so by a person so authoratative and so highly valued in their lives. This religion isn't like Christianity where you can take or leave what your teacher/pastor says. If he/she says something you don't agree with, you can raise your eyebrows and say, "Hmm.. I pray about it, my friend!" In the Muslim religion the cleric has AUTHORITY. They can enforce their rulings. It's pretty scary.

 

[Katheryn]

I think your insistance that this is a Muslim problem rather than a Patriachal problem which crosses cultures is unfounded.

I'm certain I didn't say that. However, now that you bring it up, what 'Patriarchial cultures' that cross from the East to the West are bringing this problem to Australia, Sweden, Denmark, Norway?

What are those? Just curious, since you brought it up.

 

[El_Machinae]

In the Muslim religion the cleric has AUTHORITY. They can enforce their rulings. It's pretty scary.

Herein I ask if you understand the difference between Shiites and Sunnis!

 

[CurtSibling]

Australian Imam regarding Aussie girls' dress: "The uncovered meat is the problem"

Here we see moslem medieval attitudes in action.

Until these zealots get it into their heads that they cannot issue nonsense like this,
there will never be any kind of platfrom for rational exchange, other than bullets.

Simon Darkshade, where art thou?

 

[C~G]

what 'Patriarchial cultures' that cross from the East to the West are bringing this problem to Australia, Sweden, Denmark, Norway?

What are those? Just curious, since you brought it up.

Judeo-Christian culture example. And of course secular culture in the west nowadays shares the same roots as well.

Anymore questions?

 

[Bad Player]

Just curious, and FYI, Protestant Christians do not believe that Catholics are actually Chrisitans. It is the 'Mary is a Co-Redeemer' thing. We consider that idolatry.

I'm a Protestant Christian and I think that true Catholics probably would go to Heaven but I am no expert in theology let alone knowing God's mind truely. My main basis is that they are trying to be Christian but they make theological mistakes. As I said I might be wrong. Hope this isn't too off topic.

 

[Katheryn]

I'm a Protestant Christian and I think that true Catholics probably would go to Heaven but I am no expert in theology let alone knowing God's mind truely. My main basis is that they are trying to be Christian but they make theological mistakes. As I said I might be wrong. Hope this isn't too off topic.

Who saves you, is the question, Mary or Jesus? Half and half? Are they co-Redeemers? That is the question. Who do you trust with your problems, your salvation? That is the crux.

 

[Katheryn]

Judeo-Christian culture example. And of course secular culture in the west nowadays shares the same roots as well.

Anymore questions?

You have GOT to be kidding. You think that Christian culture encourages rape. You must have rocks for brains. Seriously. The Judeo-Christian culture is the indigenous culture in Australia, Sweden, Norway, Denmark.

Wow, you are willing to really go beyond illogical... down to outright lying to yourself.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Katheryn]

Here, for your edification:

Read Sheik Hilaly's comments
26.10.2006. 18:53:56

http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/region.php?id=132248&region=7

The following are extracts from Sheik Taj Din Al Hilaly's controversial sermon given last month, as independently translated by an SBS Arabic expert.

“Those atheists, people of the book (Christians and Jews), where will they end up? In Surfers Paradise? On the Gold Coast? Where will they end up? In hell and not part-time, for eternity. They are the worst in God’s creation.”

“When it comes to adultery, it’s 90 percent the woman’s responsibility. Why? Because a woman owns the weapon of seduction. It’s she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us, dallying. It’s she who shortens, raises and lowers. Then, it’s a look, a smile, a conversation, a greeting, a talk, a date, a meeting, a crime, then Long Bay jail. Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years.”


RELATED LINKS
- Sheik says sorry
- Hilaly comment 'un-Australian'
- Muslim sermon sparks outrage
- Hilaly urged to stand down


“But when it comes to this disaster, who started it? In his literature, writer al-Rafee says, if I came across a rape crime, I would discipline the man and order that the woman be jailed for life. Why would you do this, Rafee? He said because if she had not left the meat uncovered, the cat wouldn’t have snatched it.”

“If you get a kilo of meat, and you don’t put it in the fridge or in the pot or in the kitchen but you leave it on a plate in the backyard, and then you have a fight with the neighbour because his cats eat the meat, you’re crazy. Isn’t this true?”

“If you take uncovered meat and put it on the street, on the pavement, in a garden, in a park, or in the backyard, without a cover and the cats eat it, then whose fault will it be, the cats, or the uncovered meat’s? The uncovered meat is the disaster. If the meat was covered the cats wouldn’t roam around it. If the meat is inside the fridge, they won’t get it.”

“If the woman is in her boudoir, in her house and if she’s wearing the veil and if she shows modesty, disasters don’t happen.”

“Satan sees women as half his soldiers. You’re my messenger in necessity, Satan tells women you‘re my weapon to bring down any stubborn man. There are men that I fail with. But you’re the best of my weapons.”

“…The woman was behind Satan playing a role when she disobeyed God and went out all dolled up and unveiled and made of herself palatable food that rakes and perverts would race for. She was the reason behind this sin taking place.”


SOURCE: SBS World News Australia

 

[Bad Player]

Yeah Katheryn I admit I don't know that much about Catholic theology - obviously only Jesus saves you and I wasn't aware of Catholics believing that Mary is a co-redeemer.

 

[skadistic]

Who saves you, is the question, Mary or Jesus? Half and half? Are they co-Redeemers? That is the question. Who do you trust with your problems, your salvation? That is the crux.

Jesus. Catholics don't realy see Mary as a redeamer of souls. Is she a part of the religion yes even a big part but not the focus nor seen as equal to the Christ child.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

It's so funny how if anyone mentions some awful behavior done by a Muslim, the immediate reaction of an atheist is to drag some Christian into it, as though they have to defend this barbaric Muslim religion.

It's almost like the Tu Quoque ("You Too") fallacy, except it's more like "Someone Else Too".
What's the Latin word for "someone else"?
"Aliquid Quoque", perhaps?

 

[Pyrite]

It's just weird seeing Christians write "LOOK AT THESE RIDICULOUS BELIEFS!! OMG!! THOSE SAVAGES!?"

And I'm unsure whether it's a sarcastic mirror or a different group they're attacking in some cases.

 

[C~G]

You have GOT to be kidding. You think that Christian culture encourages rape. Seriously. The Judeo-Christian culture is the indigenous culture in Australia, Sweden, Norway, Denmark.

That's why it's hard to percept how much rapes are effects of patriarchality of Judeo-Christian culture compared to the rapes that happen just because of effects of human nature.

But my claim might be as outrageous as yours about muslim culture.

 

[Katheryn]

This sounds like something C~G would say:

Media blamed for Islam bias
Jeremy Roberts
October 27, 2006
AUSTRALIAN Federal Police Commissioner Mick Keelty believes the media is fuelling a growing bias against Islamic Australians, warning that increased vilification of Muslims is fomenting home-grown terrorism.
In a speech delivered in Adelaide, Mr Keelty played down Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali's inflammatory comments on women, asserting that "many in the community also say offensive things and many of them are white Caucasian Australians".

He said rising vilification of Muslims was being fuelled by irresponsible media outlets which sensationalised terrorism-related stories with little basis in fact. And he called on Australians to teach the values of democracy and multiculturalism to the younger generation so that "our future is not worse than our past".

Mr Keelty - who clashed with Foreign Minister Alexander Downer in 2004 after the commissioner blamed the suicide attacks on Madrid train system on the war in Iraq - said he met privately with Muslim groups in Adelaide yesterday.

"You hear more and more stories of treatment of the Islamic community that really is substandard by members of our own wider community," he said at a lunch hosted by the South Australian Press Club. "It is vilification, picking them out of the crowd because they dress differently or they speak differently.

"If we are not careful we risk raising a generation of Australians who will have a bias against Islam."

He said to avoid terrorism, the country must not marginalise people. "We don't want to provide them with more reasons to be further marginalised or disenfranchised to the point where they will take their own life in order to kill many others."

Mr Keelty's comments differ in emphasis to John Howard's singling out in September of a minority of Australian Muslims. He said a "small section of the Islamic population (was) very resistant to integration".

A spokesman for Mr Howard said the Prime Minister would not comment on Mr Keelty's speech.

But Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration Andrew Robb said it was the terrorists who were to blame for increased "anxiety in the community".

And he said the onus was on Muslims to put the rest of the community at ease. "The actions and the statements of the terrorists is leading to stigmatisation of Muslims in Australia," Mr Robb said. "To minimise the anxiety in the community Australian Muslims have to accept they face a problem with Islamic terrorism - a problem which is not of their making but a problem nonetheless.

"But they are best placed to do something about it, by denouncing it and by asserting their Australian-ness and being confident in all of that."

Mr Robb has proposed a tougher test for people seeking citizenship, including an English test and knowledge of some elements of Australian history and society. Speaking about "partnerships" with different communities, Mr Keelty appeared to take exception to yesterday's front page report in The Australian on Sheik Hilali. "The other partnership which is important - and if you have seen The Australian newspaper today you would understand why - is with the Islamic community," he said.

Later saying the story was "balanced" by female Muslim input, he said Muslim vilification was fuelled by a sensationalist media. But he said the solution to the risk of bias against Muslims was a return to "teaching the values to the future generations that we were brought up with".

"One of our great strengths as a community is that we do have a very open democratic system in this country ... one of the strengths of this country is multiculturalism."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20652788-601,00.html


Blame the messenger... that is really logical. See no evil, hear no evil, no evil exists. Shut up and go back to work, nothing to see here...

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Katheryn]

That's why it's hard to percept how much rapes are effects of patriarchality of Judeo-Christian culture compared to the rapes that happen just because of effects of human nature.

But my claim might be as outrageous as yours about muslim culture.

And you say this, when you just read what they teach?

Are you ignoring it or denying it?

How can you lie to yourself and deny that there are NATIONAL LEADERS, even government officials, saying that rape is the woman's fault? That adultery is the womans fault?

You are so stubborn in your desire to be antichristian that you will go this far?

A couple of pages ago, I listed the laws in Pakistan for rape. It comes directly from the Koran. That is the Muslim's HOLY BOOK, their example for living. Rape occurs there often and is sanctified. Did you read it? Or pass it by because it is not liberal enough for your preconceived notions? There must be FOUR eyewitnesses of the rape - the penetration, or it is the woman's fault - it is fornication/adultery if she loses her virginity and she is an outcast from her family and is thrown in jail.

And you compare this to Christianity? How so? Jesus forgave the woman and said, 'He who has no sin cast the first stone.' Remember? This is the example Christians are to follow.

 

[skadistic]

Thats great its the media that fuels the bias and not the vile words or the nincompoops that spew them.

 

[C~G]

And you say this, when you just read what they teach?

Are you ignoring it or denying it?

I already commented this and it doesn't come as surprise to me.

You are so stubborn in your desire to be antichristian that you will go this far?

I said it's not muslim thing. It's a male thing.
I say now it's not a christian thing. It's a male thing.

However I don't deny that culture has effect to people's minds and there are also women that carry similar stance towards rape victims. I believe it's partly our culture's fault.

A couple of pages ago, I listed the laws in Pakistan for rape. It comes directly from the Koran. That is the Muslim's HOLY BOOK, their example for living. Rape occurs there often and is sanctified. Did you read it? Or pass it by because it is not liberal enough for your preconceived notions? There must be FOUR eyewitnesses of the rape - the penetration, or it is the woman's fault - it is fornication/adultery if she loses her virginity and she is an outcast from her family and is thrown in jail.

And you compare this to Christianity? How so? Jesus forgave the woman and said, 'He who has no sin cast the first stone.' Remember? This is the example Christians are to follow.

I commented this particular case.

You are reading the bible and the Quran as example of evidence of someone's religious social norms solely based into the text of the book.

Read my message where I comment Bad Player's post. Read it with great care this time. You might even find yourself from that message. As you are again in all out attack towards Islam forgetting that similar behaviour exists outside that culture as well.

EDIT:

This sounds like something C~G would say:

I don't want even comment that further. Please don't post articles based into your opinions of my supposed position towards the subject.
Thank you.

 

[Masquerouge]

The trouble I have with your posts, Katheryn, is that they display Islam in a way I'm not at all familiar with. When I was in France I knew a lot of Muslim people. They were pretty much like you and me. The girls were not veiled. They did not see non-muslims as slaves or inferior being, and they were pretty moderate in their religious beliefs and practice.
When I travel abroad, to Egypt, to Morocco, all the Muslims I met there were extremely nice people (if you forget the bakshish thing in Egypt, which I hope you will agree has more to do with tourism than with Islam)
Yet when I read your links and your articles, I see something completely alien. I see something that is not compatible with a day-to-day experience of Muslims.

So which is it? Is it that my reality is flawed and for some reason all the Muslims I know and encountered are the exception, not the norm, or is it that the small population of hateful nuts are blown out of proportion in the press? For instance,why is it that this thread focus more on the first article of the OP, and almost nothing is said about the SECOND article? Why is there a trend to blame Muslims for the ugly things hardcore fanatists say, and not a praise for the guys who publicly disavowed that lunatic and ask for his removal?

Could it be it's because it's easier to read and agree with things that reinforces what we already believe?