Average American?

[Mojotronica]

Geography isn't a priority in our schools. Our Universities are top-notch, but our public grade and secondary schools are a mixed bag. Terrible in some places, pretty good in others, but the focus is on other subjects at any rate.

 

[Double Barrel]

Outcome based education....a result of socialists within the U.S. government trying to subvert American children.

That, and the obsession and over-indulgence of pop culture and entertainment.

I wanted to defend my fellow Americans...until I realized that I would be defending the very people that danced in mass to the Macarena (or whatever that stupid song/dance was called).

Plus, freakin' Anna-Nicole Smith! Who in the hell watches this crap?!

 

[PantheraTigris2]

Did you get Latvia? Belarus? Austria? Hungary? Romania? Bulgaria? Hmm, that's just for starters. C'mon now, perfection, your knowledge of the east is far from "perfect". Pardon the pun!

 

[Deep_Thought76]

Just for grins: Ireland and Great Britain off the coast, Portugal, Spain, and Andorra on the Iberian peninsula, then France, Monaco, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Liechtenstein. Up the coast there's Denmark, and then Norway, Iceland, Finland, Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Russia. Poland and Germany, Czech Republic and Slovakia, Austria, Hungary, Switzerland, Italy, San Marino, and the Vatican, plus Malta and Cyprus. The Baltic states of Albania, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia (I may be forgetting a cpl here) Macedonia, Greece, and that’s about all I can think of. Not sure whether you’d count Turkey or Greenland.

That's 40.. not too bad. I can pretty much visualize the map and think of the names by position. Judging by results from HS, I'm prbly a little above avg. in geography, but that may not be saying much.

Edit: seems I wasn't the only one w. this idea. And I can't remember all those eastern European states, they change their borders too often.

 

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by Double Barrel

I wanted to defend my fellow Americans...until I realized that I would be defending the very people that danced in mass to the Macarena (or whatever that stupid song/dance was called).

The Macarena was not so bad... At least, it was a Spanish song

 

[gael]

This really annoys me that people outside Americia, when they come to America, think Americians are stupid because they know nothing of thier country.

The world knows where America is, they know the culture, they practically grow up learning about it through TV, music, fashion.
Yet when they go to the US they seem suprised that the normal Americian has'nt a clue about were they come from or what they listen to or what.......you get the drift.

A country like Americia was not build on stupidity or ignorance.
The average man on the street in the US does not get bombarded with your culture like we do US culture worldwide.
They don't give a f**k about your country, most of them probably never heard of of it.
Why would they care to know about it?

 

[EdwardTking]

I have a theory on this.


A European (non British) student learns maybe about:

~ 30% A: Home Country
~ 70% B: Other European Countries and Other Countries


But the USA is very large and States, and often Counties and Cities too, have real powers so a USA person learns maybe about:

~ 30% A: Home County and State
~ 70% B: Other US States and Foreign Countries
perhaps split 35% and 35%

Now if you compare B against B; I doubt that there
is all that difference between USA and European.

But of you compare USA student knowledge of
"Foreign Countries" on its own against a European
student's knowledge of "Other European Countries
and Other Countries"; the European student may
know more; but that is because the comparison
is between a whole 70% and half of that, 35%.

I reckon an average British student's knowledge splits:

~ 70% A: Britain and its former Empire
~ 30% B: Rest of World

 

[PantheraTigris2]

gael, thanks for saying (rather bluntly), what I didn't dare. That pretty much sums it up, in addition to my first post on this.

Edit:
and Edward, that sounds like a pretty solid theory there.

 

[addiv]

Originally posted by Deep_Thought76
Just for grins: Ireland and Great Britain off the coast, Portugal, Spain, and Andorra on the Iberian peninsula, then France, Monaco, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Liechtenstein. Up the coast there's Denmark, and then Norway, Iceland, Finland, Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Russia. Poland and Germany, Czech Republic and Slovakia, Austria, Hungary, Switzerland, Italy, San Marino, and the Vatican, plus Malta and Cyprus. The Baltic states of Albania, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia (I may be forgetting a cpl here) Macedonia, Greece, and that’s about all I can think of. Not sure whether you’d count Turkey or Greenland.

Pretty good, most Europeans wouldn't do it better. You forgot Romania, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Moldavia, Armenia, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus and Azerbaidzjan...

BTW the Baltic states are Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania

 

[Quokka]

After having a think about it and remembering about the breakup of many eastern European contries and Russia this is what I can think of, 40(+5?) so far. I would bet that I have forgotten some of the ex-soviet Republics. How far east does Europe extend?

England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, Spain, Luxembourg, Portugal, Andorra, Monaco, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Italy, Albania, Yugoslavia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Macedonia, Greece, Turkey, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Czech Rep, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Belarus and Russia.

Isle of Wight? Isle of Man? Malta? Cyprus? Georgia?


Edit: Can already see I missed Lichtenstein, San Marino & Vatican
but I know where they are now I know their names.

 

[gael]

EdwardTking

I think your statisics are sound, but i doubt every student studies geography and/or politics.

I think the most of them study subjects that have nothing to do with the two, and don't think it is only students that hold this opinion.

 

[addiv]

Originally posted by gael
Why would they care to know about it?

Maybe because they could be interested in countries other than their own?

 

[Quokka]

I think your statisics are sound, but i doubt every student studies geography and/or politics.
I think the most of them study subjects that have nothing to do with the two, and don't think it is only students that hold this opinion.

How the hell do they get out of it, its required in schools here. I thought basic geography was required everywhere.

 

[gael]

Originally posted by addiv


Maybe because they could be interested in countries other than their own?

I hate when this happens.

I could go on and on...what i said was to make a point, it was not an absolute or an insult.

 

[gael]

Originally posted by Quokka


How the hell do they get out of it, its required in schools here. I thought basic geography was required everywhere.

Do you know every city in any country like you know the US.
Do you know China like you know the US?
Do you know any other country better in the world that you have not been too other than the US?

I know basic geagraphy, but I know th US better than say some south americian country. Thats because I've I've seen the movies, heard the storys, and generally been more exposed to US culture than any other country.

You know I'm right.

 

[Greadius]

Who cares if you can name countries off the top of your head; if you know how to find a map you're in fine shape.

It depends on the questions asked, or the priority, or the group sampled. For example, Americans have the highest percentage of College graduation in the world.

Unfortunately, nobody has ever asked ME to represent the average American because it messes up their statistics.

 

[Quokka]

I know the US well because I lived there for 8 years. I'm also not claiming a vast knowledge of every country, but I know where they are.
I have experienced first hand the lack of knowledge many Americans have and the general 'who cares' attitude they have about such knowledge.

You'd be amazed how many times I got told I speak good english for a German. I'm Australian. Other classics includes Scotland in New England and Ireland is an island off the coast of Boston.

Thats because I've I've seen the movies, heard the storys, and generally been more exposed to US culture than any other country.

The movies about New York filmed in Toronto or Sydney?
You have been exposed to more Us culture in Ireland than English?

Obviously you know more than just Ireland, which is good. The point is most Americans don't know anything but America.

Many do, I have many great(and knowledgeable) friends there and I am moving back there later this year, but this is about the 'average American' and their lack of knowledge.

 

[TNG]

Let me try!

1. Portugal
2. Spain
3. Ireland
4. France
5. Andorra
6. UK
7. Monaco
8. Switzerland
9. Iceland (does that count?)
10. Italy
11. Germany
12. Luxembourg
13. Belgium
14. The Netherlands
15. Slovenia
16. Lichestein
17. Austria
18. Demark
19. Poland
20. Hungary
21. Croatia
22. Bosnia and Herzegovina
23. Albania
24. Yugoslavia
25. Czech Republic
26. Greece
27. Romania
28. Bulgaria
29. Ukraine
30. Belarus
31. San Marino
32. Vatican City
33. Norway
34. Sweden
35. Finland
36. Moldova
37. Slovakia
38. Turkey (does this count?)
39. Russia
40. Latvia
41. Lithuania
42. Estonia


Okay, 42, pretty good for an 11 year-old huh?

EDIT: I checked and there are 47 countries in all of Europe. So I missed 5.

 

[Vrylakas]

Mojo wrote:

Ironically the average American is a lesbian from Akron Ohio named Jeanette Mathison. She has a son and works for a car dealership.

I'm sure I dated her once, years ago.

Quokka wrote:

This to me is part of the problem. The US often talks about Europe as if it were one country. There are, I think, 28 countries in Europe as a whole. One year of study is barely adequate for one country, let alone the whole of Europe.

Thanks for some good input Quokka.

*Sigh*

Ok, we've been here many times before in these forums. Yes, on average an American is less likely to have much knowledge about other societies or cultures. American society puts less emphasis on history than European education does; European identity is very tied up with our history - or at least our fairly convenient memory of our history - but some points to observe:

1. Not all Americans are historically-challenged, and not all Europeans are fonts of historical knowledge. I've held very complex and intelligent conversations with some Americans about Japanese, Polish and Sumerian history. I've also had some infamous gaffs with Europeans. I remember in particular a Belgian in a bar asking a couple American girls how it felt to come from such a young country. I waited a few respectful moments to remind him that Belgium was created in 1831, a half century after the United States. It is true that many more Americans are ignorant of history than Europeans but on the other hand this is their focus. There's a Polish film from a few years ago called Szczesliwego Nowego Jorku ("Happy New York", a play on "Happy New Year" in Polish) about Polish emigres to the U.S., and at one point a well-established expat blows up when trying to explain to home-sick fellow expats, saying "We (poles) have too many monuments, a monument to that massacre or a statue to that battle, too many monuments! We have too much history, and it holds us all down! We should just bulldoze the monuments and get on with our lives!" That's a very American attitude.

2. When we say "Europeans" here, I think there needs be some clarification. Quokka was heading down the right path on this one. For as much as Americans may be generally ignorant about European history, Western Europeans are often shockingly ignorant about Eastern European history and geography. As someone who spoke decent English at my university in Hungary I was often asked to guide and translate for visiting guests, and have found even Western European professors of "European History" sometimes wholly ignorant of anything east of the Elbe, except for perhaps Russia. The Germans are the exception on this, with some even bothering to learn our languages, but on average I'd say most of the Western Europeans I've met know nothing about our history (which in many cases is tightly intertwined with Western European history). One British professor asked me in Hungary of we were "in the Soviet Union now". None of the visiting professors I met had any concept of what countries bordered Hungary. They kept confusing Budapest with Bucharest even after being in the country for a week.

As an aspiring historian this infuriates me the most, and I am not alone as indeed the British historian Norman Davies spends most of his introduction to his 1996 book Europe, a History exploring why Western Europe ignores the rest of the Continent so much, arrogently publishing books entitled "European History" when they in reality only explore the history of 6 or 8 Western European countries. Will this change when we join the EU? Will Dutch people then know who Boleslaw Chrobry or Isparuch were? Will the English know who their one Polish king was, or what Trianon means to Hungarians?

If we're going to be pointing fingers, then I thought I'd just bring that up.

 

[gael]

Quokka:

Answer me this, what is the average Australian, or the average Irish man. Do you ask as much off them?

Maybe you are clued up on Australias geography, and you sound like you have a clue beyond that. Fair play to you.
Some people don't care about geography, whether it be thier own country or others.
They have other things to get on with in their lives.

Don't be so quick to judge people on what they don't know mate.
People are more than what you know.