Aztec - Montezuma I Thread

[Thormodr]

Aztecs not being able to use barbarians as builders greatly limits their potential snowballing. They have to actively defeat city states and other players to get ahead, I'd say that's a good trade off.

Japan's district bonanza sounds crazy powerful, but IIRC you can only build new districts every two pop, right? That kind of limits its snowballing effects, though it leaves Japan quite powerful later on.

America is like England, in that they don't seem to have anything especially snowballey.

I'd agree that Egypt also seems rather powerful early on, the whole river bonus for production looks quite useful, and the Sphinxes allow for you to snowball faith/culture if it's possible to build them early, but I'd still say China's Extra Builder Charge/Eureka/Early Wonder Rush seems way way more powerful.

I don't think they need to defeat the city state. They just need to stay at war with one. If the AI is as brain dead as the Civilization 5 1UPT AI, they'll be sending a steady stream of units that can easily be picked off. That will ensure a steady stream of builders for the Aztecs.

Hopefully the AI is better this go around.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I don't think they need to defeat the city state. They just need to stay at war with one. If the AI is as brain dead as the Civilization 5 1UPT AI, they'll be sending a steady stream of units that can easily be picked off. That will ensure a steady stream of builders for the Aztecs.

Hopefully the AI is better this go around.

And if you can get free builders, you get your improvements/districts online faster than anyone else. And of course the earlier you can get those things done the more what they provide you compounds over the course of a game.

 

[King Jason]

The competition for the Pyramids will be fierce in this game.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The competition for the Pyramids will be fierce in this game.

Only among civs who happen to have a conveniently located desert tile.

 

[King Jason]

If I'm the Aztecs or the Chinese and I can't build the Pyramids then I'll simply conquer whoever can.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

The competition for the Pyramids will be fierce in this game.

Seems that way, but maybe everything else is just as good? Or alternatively, if it is better than they expect there can always be a balance made later. Too soon . . .

 

[OnceAKing]

I don't know, China seems like it could be quite overpowered.

Bonuses to Eureka moments means extra culture and science, while its builders are more efficient AND can be used to rush wonders. (Which means that if a specific wonder is extremely valuable, you could simply farm builders and then expend them all as soon as the wonder is available.)

They sound production-heavy, with a leg up in science and culture. It's pretty much optimal for a tall, insular Civ.

It's a great builder civ but I wouldn't say OP. The wall seems underwhelming and they don't have any buff to military. So I could see a civ like the Aztecs overrunning them, especially because Firaxis has sought to downplay the science advantage. So the Aztec could send waves of units to pillage if not conquer China.

At least the Americans and Japanese have defensive bonuses for their units. And England could attack China with some advantage if they don't share a continent.

This isn't to say China needs a buff, I think it looks to be a well balanced group of civs. I do think China is a good Intro to Civ6 civ

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Great Wall seems to be pretty good actually. At start it give gold which as far as I know may be a rare yield in Civilization VI as well as a defensive bonus which may be more useful given that districts can be pillaged. Later on you get culture and faith from the wall.

China is not the strongest early game military civ but it is a very strong early boom civ given its builder advantages and the wall play very well into a defensive strategy and even its yield may be useful. Overall I think the ability to build an improvement that both help your economy and give defensive bonuses is very good.

 

[Nagol Strache]

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but it sounds like Montezuma's ability has more to it than just giving his units extra combat strength per unique luxury.

From the video at 0:22

It makes amenities particularly valuable for this civ. Not only do luxuries give amenities to extra cities, but each different luxury improved in Aztec territory gives their military more fighting power.

To me it sounds like his cities get extra amenities from nearby luxuries, what are your guys' thoughts?

 

[AriochIV]

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but it sounds like Montezuma's ability has more to it than just giving his units extra combat strength per unique luxury.

From the video at 0:22

To me it sounds like his cities get extra amenities from nearby luxuries, what are your guys' thoughts?

It sounds as if Luxuries only provide Amenities to one city (or a limited number of cities). This may make some sense given that happiness is now per-city and not global, but it's not clear how you would determine which cities get the extra Amenities.

 

[MonsieurOiseau]

Yup, there's a couple of Mexico mods out there.


But you seem to argue that Aztecs=Mexico, they aren't. The Aztecs in civ represent...The Aztecs, they are not standing in for modern mexico in any way just because they inhabited part of the same territory, in the same way the Mayans don't represent modern Mexico,

I do not argue that Aztecs=Mexico. I have been trying to argue that they are not.
I understand that the aztecs represent the aztecs. I do not like that they are being used as a filler civ for mexico.

Also what is an amenity?

 

[Red Pearl]

I do not argue that Aztecs=Mexico. I have been trying to argue that they are not.
I understand that the aztecs represent the aztecs. I do not like that they are being used as a filler civ for mexico.

The Aztecs are not being used as a filler civ for Mexico. Civ 5 had both the Ottomans and Byzantium.

 

[ehecatzin]

I do not argue that Aztecs=Mexico. I have been trying to argue that they are not.
I understand that the aztecs represent the aztecs. I do not like that they are being used as a filler civ for mexico.

Also what is an amenity?

Here's the problem with you argument, they aren't being used as a filler civ for Mexico. Nothing about the Aztecs in civ represent modern Mexico in any way.

Now if what you mean is that geographicaly they ocuppy the same place as Mexico,(and thus they both couldn't be on the same game) that's another thing, but geographical overlap has never really been much of an impediment if the devs want to add a certain civ.

 

[AriochIV]

Also what is an amenity?

Amenities are one of the factors in the new city-specific happiness system. Luxury resources are one source of amenities, but it's not clear exactly how the system works.

 

[plasmacannon]

In general I think its more fun to do the older iterition of the civ. Traditionally colonial civs besides the USA have not really appeared. In civ5 though they changed it up a little by adding Brazil, and Vikings/Sweden, Carthage/Morocco, Greece/Byzantinum etc. So maybe we will see more modern post-colonial civs this time.

I agree.

 

[kaspergm]

The competition for the Pyramids will be fierce in this game.

I think this depends entirely upon how expensive builders are to build/buy. Pyramids are for me a major wonder in Civ5, but it doesn't seem to be very popular.

On a sidenote, this brings up the question of whether they've fixed what is for me one of the more glaring design flaws of Civ5, namely the fixed cost of all-game units like the Worker and the Caravan/Cargo Ship. I find the fact that these units are extremely expensive in early game yet almost free (generally 1 turn production) in later game to be poorly designed.

 

[isau]

I think the unit is neat but I wish it was contemporary with swordsmen or even longswordsmen (if there is such a thing this go round) and not an ancient BC unit, because that is closer to the correct era.

The alternative would be to make this unit a replacement for horsemen. Fast moving raider units that require no resources and can slip through jungle/forest, since the Aztecs (and all mesoamerican people at the time) famously lacked horses. But make them vulnerable to actual horsemen. Maybe I'll mod that in once tools are avail if it's practical to do so.

 

[kaspergm]

I think the unit is neat but I wish it was contemporary with swordsmen or even longswordsmen (if there is such a thing this go round) and not an ancient BC unit, because that is closer to the correct era.

Agreed, an alternative to the Swordsman would make sense, without the Iron cost. Like the Iroquois Mohawk Warrior in Civ 5.

 

[Socrates99]

On a sidenote, this brings up the question of whether they've fixed what is for me one of the more glaring design flaws of Civ5, namely the fixed cost of all-game units like the Worker and the Caravan/Cargo Ship. I find the fact that these units are extremely expensive in early game yet almost free (generally 1 turn production) in later game to be poorly designed.

I agree. Although with the builder being a limited use unit I wouldn't mind if they stayed cheap late game.

 

[ehecatzin]

Agreed, an alternative to the Swordsman would make sense, without the Iron cost. Like the Iroquois Mohawk Warrior in Civ 5.

Yeah, I think the Eagles are closer to swordsman than to warriors historically speaking.

But gameplay wise, I'm finding the civ6 version quite interesting, the thing here is that the Eagles start as better warriors but due to the luxury bonus, they may be able to withstand swordsmans later on, as long as you keep pushing, 1 or 2 swordsmans shouldn't be that much of an issue to a full army of Eagles. I kinda like that progression, keeping that UU in the field for the longest time possible.