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Bach Democracy 1660AD

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of Democracy II' started by GaryNemo, Jan 15, 2003.

?

How shall we manage "The Big Picture" and Critical Changes?

Poll closed Jan 22, 2003.
  1. I've looked at the Critical Changes posted in Turn 1660AD

    8 vote(s)
    80.0%
  2. I agree we must not let our government collapse (R)

    10 vote(s)
    100.0%
  3. B. Bach in 1680, Revolution in 1690AD into Democracy (R!)

    10 vote(s)
    100.0%
  4. B. Bach in 1680, but no revolution into Democracy yet

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. B. Not Bach, build Statue of Liberty

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. B. Not Bach, build Darwin now

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. B. Not Bach, build the Eiffel Tower

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Oedo revolution 1690 for 1700AD Democracy is correct!

    7 vote(s)
    70.0%
  9. Oedo revolution 1690 for 1700AD Democracy is not correct!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Civvium=12: could be growing, PRB $44, Sewer in 2

    9 vote(s)
    90.0%
  11. Reneaux=12: could be growing, PRB $60 Sewer in 2

    9 vote(s)
    90.0%
  12. Legendary=8: could be growing, PRB $58 Aquaduct in 5, grows in 6 (R)

    10 vote(s)
    100.0%
  13. Good cities: spend about $200 on PRB (R)

    9 vote(s)
    90.0%
  14. Good cities: spend about $100 on PRB

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  15. Emergencies: spend up to $400 on Rush Buy (R)

    9 vote(s)
    90.0%
  16. Emergencies: spend up to $200 on Rush Buy

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  17. Railroad to connect CJ, GG and Elysium, then MT (R)

    10 vote(s)
    100.0%
  18. Railroad on Elysium Silk and Gems

    7 vote(s)
    70.0%
  19. Railroad on REGIA CIVITAS Buffalo

    6 vote(s)
    60.0%
  20. Railroad on other Mines and production

    7 vote(s)
    70.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. GaryNemo

    GaryNemo Settler from None

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,237
    Location:
    Ohio, GMT-4
    We have been planning for Democracy for hundreds of years, and here we are. We have the 8 Vans to build Bach, all hiding in RC. Bach unhappiness reduction cancels the unhappiness of Democracy. I expect everything to be the same, fine, and much improved because all corruption will be eliminated. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

    To be proper, I am polling this now. Also, pick a few RailRoad choices that you think can all be accomplished.

    This poll is open for 6 days, so vote Friday, over the weekend or Monday morning at the latest.
     
  2. funxus

    funxus Orange Cycloptic Blob

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2002
    Messages:
    3,390
    Location:
    Where you wish to be!
    I agree with the silk, for production, but we don't gain anything by railroading the gems, do we?:confused:
    Do we have any priority order for the engineers? I see some of the cities (e.g. Mulled Mine, Cymru Straits) lack food or will lack food, and I think these should be priority. Next should be to connect our continent with railroad. We're also getting closer to refrigeration, which means everything has to be irrigated once again... there's quite a demand for engineers already, and it will increase soon. Maybe we should assign a few cities to build a bunch of engineers. e.g. switch thunder aqueduct to harbor, move a few workers to the sea and let it build engineers.
    I know Gary's been shouting about the lack of settlers for a couple of centuries, but now we really need them to improve our empire.:)

    Other cities:
    MD, switch to harbor, then eng
    LC, CJ, maybe BB
     
  3. Octavian X

    Octavian X is not a pipe.

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
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    deceiving people with images
    funxus has a point. While transportation is important, growth is more critical. We need to focus our manpower on a some irrigation, too!
     
  4. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2001
    Messages:
    9,702
    Location:
    Southern CA, USA
    I would make our rail network the priority. Unless a city is in danger of starving off a citizen, I'd let them sit. Once the rail network is done we can move engineers to any city we need and 'swarm' it if desired. So, not only will our engineers be more mobile, but so will our defenses and our caravans as well.

    Once the rail network is done we will need to be sure that some of our ships are available for ferry duty basically every turn.

    Yes, we do need more engineers. Hopefully, with the large army we already have and the reduction in the need for defenders due to the rail network we can shift away from military production for the most part.
     
  5. Mr Spice

    Mr Spice Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2001
    Messages:
    1,250
    Location:
    Sweden
    Regarding the railroads, I would like to prioritize connecting cities and increasing production over growth. Maybe we should build some more engineers - you can't have too much infrastructure.
     
  6. Zwelgje

    Zwelgje Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2001
    Messages:
    3,953
    I think the focus for now should be on connecting the cities with railroads (from RC to Cymru Straits). I agree it's nice to put RR on things like silk and mines to improve trade/production but at the moment that hasn't priority for me. I want to expand and the engineers are great for that. Let them build some railroad, then transport them to the empty lands/islands.
    Once they've settled there the cities supporting them are released and ready to support a new engineer! :)
     
  7. GaryNemo

    GaryNemo Settler from None

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,237
    Location:
    Ohio, GMT-4
    This all looks approved to me, except the RC Buffalo. Just as well, we can't do everything at once, particularly with the shortage of Engineers.

    I was looking at them last night, and will shortly propose very specific ideas. For example, the Elysium Silk comes first, for a shield, much trade, multiplied beakers, and saving time getting to RC to build Darwin. Ideas like that.

    Feel free to post your favorite specific Railroad plans, which Engr does what first, second, etc, here.
     
  8. GaryNemo

    GaryNemo Settler from None

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,237
    Location:
    Ohio, GMT-4
    Expenses from other threads

    This is going to be very complex, while switching to Democracy, but we can do it - we can plan it. Here are some of the other expenses being discussed in other threads. This thread can be a consolidated discussion of expenses, ok?

    Castle Jayne: Aquaduct 23/80 in 19, PRB £74, Aqua in 7 works,
      See Engr Choices (A?), also Irrigate one more GLS,
      Aquaduct, Elvis, Celebrates, start Engr.
    Banana Bay: Caravel in 3, rehome in Lone Bison (A?)

    Ironclads can be Vet, before we discover Magnetism. However, people are voting for Electricity, and that requires Magnetism, which will ruin our Lighthouse Vet status. Then Electricity will upgrade any Vet Ironclads to Non-Vet Destroyers, iirc. I hope we put that all off. Changes & expenses:
    Routskilde: sw to Market & Rush Buy £78 (A?)
      st Ironclad and $accelerate, but exactly how?
    Westness: Rush Buy Temple for only £30, st Ironclad
    Kaupang: Rush Buy Temple only £40, st Ironclad
    These Rush Buys will eliminate 4 Elvii. The question is then how much extra funding to quickly create these Ironclads? The geographic position seems optimal.

    We have already approved Bach and Democracy, also war with the Spanish, and more Engineers. I can't imagine polling these details -- we'll just do it, Objections?
     
  9. Octavian X

    Octavian X is not a pipe.

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
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    Nope, no objects here, Mr. Domestic Advisor.
     
  10. GaryNemo

    GaryNemo Settler from None

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,237
    Location:
    Ohio, GMT-4
    Approvals and Expense summary:

    Quite a few polls appear settled, and we have a satisfying 9 or 10 voters. Here I summarize items of great domestic importance or expense: switches, PRB and Rush Buys, Sewers, Engineers, and Ironclads.

    Key: (A) Approved, (L) Listed, (D) Discussed, (P?) Poll, (N) Nemo

    First, the Bach Democracy poll has all been approved:
    I've looked at the Critical Changes posted in Turn 1660AD (A)
      That was from a week ago, all needed except as amended,
      Many items polled and/or revised, otherwise implement them.
    I agree we must not let our government collapse (A)
      Please check F4 before every EndOfTurn (N)
    Bach in 1680, Revolution in 1690AD into Democracy :)D)
      Revolt, set Max Lux% and check F4, Elvii
    as needed (N)
    Civvium=12: could be growing, PRB £44, Sewer in 2 (A)
    Reneaux=12: could be growing, PRB £60, Sewer in 2 (A)
    Legendary=8: PRB £58 Aquaduct in 5, grows in 6 (A)
    Neuma=8: forest to Elvis, Celeb! PRB £72 Market in 5 (L)
    Good cities: spend about £200 on PRB (A)
    Emergencies: spend up to £400 on Rush Buy (A)
    Railroad to connect ... see Engr Plan in Rail Poll (A)

    And the Engr Choices poll seems all approved:
    TFalls, Monks Towne, Castle Jayne all switch to Engr (A)
    Routskilde: switch to Market 41/80 and Rush Buy £78 (A)
    All easy sw to Engr: Penguin Melampyrum Capri and Antioch (A)

    So £44 +60 +58 +72 +78 is merely £312

    Speedup Vans: IPRB=30 & 40 £11, seven times per year (A)
      Dellham Gabba Beast Mulled right now, later others.

    Mordhiemia: DO NOT Rush Buy £82, Market in 41... (A)
    Prague: rehome Mord Rifle here, helps Mord Market in 21 (L)
    Cymru: sw Dip 28/30 to IPRB £4 Van in 5 (A? Rail Poll)
    Favor Routskilde to build improvements (A? Big Issues)
      But Routskilde Rush Buy Market, then st Ironclad. (D)
      Some day soon an Aquaduct etc, but not b4 the Ironclad.
    Maybe play 3-4 turns so we can plan new Democracy? (A? Big Issues)

    And from my 1/17/03 Post above "Expenses from other threads"

    Castle Jayne: Aquaduct deferred, sw to Engr (A)
    Routskilde: Market then Ironclad and $IPRB, but exactly how?
      Ignore hunger, serfs Peat 2Whales GLS, 7 Sh/turn (N)
      Ironclad 21/60 IPRB £22 and so on. (N)
    Westness: Rush Buy Temple for only £30, st Ironclad (L)
    Kaupang: Rush Buy Temple only £40, st Ironclad (L)
    These Rush Buys will eliminate Elvii. The question is then how much extra funding to quickly create these Ironclads? The geographic position seems optimal. Answer: Once 21 or more shields, begin IPRB (N)

    So £312 +4*11 +4 +30 +40 is merely £430 . That is :confused: more than the 200g approved, and less than the 600g approved. We have good Foreign Van flow, treasury £1900 + £150/turn so are using a lot of money, no problem. Keep spending small < £16 IPRB on all Vans and Ironclads.

    :scan: Objections? Jayne moves in 36 hours...
     

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