You forgot to add Climate Geoengineering as replacement building for Global Warming (all three levels) in your chart.
Balance Factors
- Thread starter Thunderbrd
- Start date
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
The only reason to hate modules is because it allows many people to work on a mod at the same timeI guess if it "always" had this replacement building then It has to be In pepper's modules because it sure as heck is Not in the SpecialBuildings file. Which is were I pulled all that data on maluses from. Another reason to Hate Modules!![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
I think you have most modules of all moddersThe only reason to hate modules is because it allows many people to work on a mod at the same time
With Notepad++ searching for stuff isn't that bad.
And its even easier if you use PPIO, as it greatly speeds up pedia.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Is PPIO now to the point that once you add it that you don't have to jump thru hoops to re install it every time the SVN is updated? That is what is holding me back from using. All the steps that you had to do to install and then uninstall to re-install after a New SVN Update. If it is past all that let me know! I will gladly install it then.I think you have most modules of all modders
With Notepad++ searching for stuff isn't that bad.
And its even easier if you use PPIO, as it greatly speeds up pedia.
It ain't all that hard, update the SVN like you always do, and if you have PPIO on your desktop as a 7z then you only really have to copy its content to your working C2C folder afterwards. That's it, no other steps needed.
Stuff can get a bit more complicated if your working copy is your SVN copy, if you play directly from the SVN folder I mean. This complication only occurs if I delete, or change the name of, a python file in the PPIO package and someone installs the newer PPIO over the old one.
There is usually no big reason to always use the latest SVN all the time, it is also not necessary to always use the latest PPIO version either, SVN updates rarely requires PPIO to be updated to a newer version.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
#1 seems easy enough
#2 I never play from my SVN folder. Infact after I update the SVN I have a "holding/working" folder I move the Updated main folders into. From there I then go into my play copy (what is in the Mod\Caveman2Cosmos folder) and cut paste in the new. My SVN Folder is always kept pristine.
#3 I like my SVN up to date, And I understand the affect this may have on the PPIO.
So it looks like I need to "bite the bullet" and get PPIO installed then.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Dang it! I can't find my post where I had all the Disease malus mapped out and the resulting losses in 
if All diseases are allowed to enter the game play. My initial Disease Modmod was added back in August of 2015. But I later did a post with the aforementioned mapping. And I dislike forum searches, main because I'm bad at it. 
if All diseases are allowed to enter the game play. My initial Disease Modmod was added back in August of 2015. But I later did a post with the aforementioned mapping. And I dislike forum searches, main because I'm bad at it. There is one little first time installation caveat.
If you have UserSetting files from playing without PPIO they will have to be deleted; that is only a first time installation step and won't have to be repeated when installing PPIO again.
The opposite is also true; if you last played with PPIO and decide to play without it next, then you will also have to delete the UserSettings folder.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
So if I save my userSettings can I plug them in After PPIO is installed? Or will I need to go thru BUG and reset all my preferences?
No, that won't work, but saving the UserSetting folder can be smart in case you will play without PPIO later.
PPIO generate different ini files than the regular C2C does.
So ini files generated by one won't work for the other, that is true both ways.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
So I would also have to reset the ini to my liking as well, good to know.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
You have some of that already. Look at the Water and Air Pollution thread and you will see that a 1 or 2 have Replacment buildings that eliminate the mid and worst stages but don't the early, as in the case of Ozone.. But who is going to "teach" the AI to do all this? Can't get too complicated.
And Hello Faustmouse, long time no see.
I know we have the replacement buildings. But they are mostly useless as when you can build them, Pollution is mostly dealt with by other buildings. My point was more about the lasting effects than the replacements.
And hey, I was lurking every now and then but now I got the time to play a game again
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Pretty sure I made it so that the Construct Condition tag requires the condition stay active for the building to stay active. I think there's another autobuilding method that might work in a way you propose though.
@Thunderbrd on what lowest handicap tech leader should reliably reach Ancient era around 12 000 BC (9.77% of game)?
On lower handicaps you are tech leader, but on highest ones AI is faster to reach Ancient era.
Now I'm testing Immortal/Normal.
One civ should reach Sedentary Lifestyle on 12 000 BC.
I test stuff without traits, TD/WFL/Tech Brokering.
Here is time table - proportions were calculated by amount of techs per era, skippable techs were taken under account.
Fast and slow value are tolerance limit - game is balanced calendarwise when tech leader reaches new era at 90%-110% of era target.
That is if target for era is 1000th turn, then its fine when tech leader reaches that era between 900th and 1100th turn.
As you can see 25% of game is about where civs should start reaching Medieval era.
50% is where civs should be roughly in middle of Atomic era.
On lower handicaps you are tech leader, but on highest ones AI is faster to reach Ancient era.
Now I'm testing Immortal/Normal.
One civ should reach Sedentary Lifestyle on 12 000 BC.
I test stuff without traits, TD/WFL/Tech Brokering.
Here is time table - proportions were calculated by amount of techs per era, skippable techs were taken under account.
Fast and slow value are tolerance limit - game is balanced calendarwise when tech leader reaches new era at 90%-110% of era target.
That is if target for era is 1000th turn, then its fine when tech leader reaches that era between 900th and 1100th turn.
As you can see 25% of game is about where civs should start reaching Medieval era.
50% is where civs should be roughly in middle of Atomic era.
Last edited:
Osk21
Barbarian Killer win Peace thru War!
This is a Great idea? I'd like to play Sid in Space someday, keep working Gentlepeople!
Well this timetable is already implemented.
On Normal speed without any tech boosters Immortal AI can't reach Ancient era on time, but Deity AI reaches it on time.
That is Tech pacing is bit slow in first era.
Try my space maps by the way - I have Duel sized earth one with single AI and earlier version without AIs.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
So I'd seek to target 12k for sed life on the most optimal possible results - thus WITH traits - particularly the best ones for tech progress. Settler level human player. NOT WFL since it doesn't have any effect until Ancient era. TD is probably going to have little impact but might as well test with it on.
If you want to calibrate the game around that, you'd have pretty much the strongest achievement scenario. Probably a longer gamespeed would also get you there a little faster so should probably go with that. 12k should be a target for any player on any setting to say, man you nailed it and you're doing awesome. If they then hit it at 6k instead, they're probably in a more challenging game and hitting it then as a result of that - which would be very reflective of RL where it was anywhere within those 6k years that most civs on Earth were hitting that point. Some never did I suppose but it's hard to say if it was more a tech or lifestyle choice and also many civs had great reasons for massive setbacks or just chose not to progress.
Small nitpick: Below Noble handicap human players have cheaper techs to research too, so Noble should be good as well.
That is handicaps below Noble are primarly for testing.
Yeah, below noble shouldn't be used as a standard when working on balance, they are supposed to be unbalanced handicap levels that follows a more severe value increment scheme than the rest of the handicaps.
I would say that balancing for Noble is the ideal, but using prince or monarch as the standard sometimes, may be better, depending on what kind of balance you want to achieve.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Well... I'm ok with that. Just saying that's the most forgiving setting so if you're on settler, and things are gauged for noble, then you're going to be hitting the mark way early and perhaps it's better to use the EASIEST case to reach 12k scenario possible. Going off Noble with human ingenuity hitting Sed Life at 12k means that most AI players will probably reach it a bit late and that's an interesting way to get a measure on true AI effectiveness vs Human.
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