battles that realy did change the World?

Did any WW II battle really change anything? In the long run, the status quo was largely reinstated after the war. I suppose the Battle of Moscow was critical, even if the outcome was expected. If Germany takes Moscow the entire war might have ended, at least while Germany digested France, Poland, western USSR, and several smaller countries.

J
 
Tours.

It kept European Christian.

If that didn't change the whole world, nothing did.

No it didn't. Tours was the defeat of a glorified Arab raiding party, now hugely exaggerated because of Frankish propaganda. Arab raids into southern France continued for decades after the battle.

A contemporary battle of far more importance was the Siege of Constantinople in 718. If the Umayyids had won that, then the whole of the Balkans may have be muslim now.
 
I noticed that Waterloo has made several appearances and I'm not surprised given how it is arguably the most famous battle of all time. But the larger and more important defeat of Napoleon was the Battle of the Nations fifteen months earlier. It was at Leipzig that the French Empire was basically destroyed and the next 60 years of European history determined.
 
I noticed that Waterloo has made several appearances and I'm not surprised given how it is arguably the most famous battle of all time.
Well, that's Abbas fault :lol:

But the larger and more important defeat of Napoleon was the Battle of the Nations fifteen months earlier. It was at Leipzig that the French Empire was basically destroyed and the next 60 years of European history determined.

Wasn't it on the road back from Moscow that the French empire was destroyed? As far as I have surmised Napoleon lost key military resources in the destruction of the Grande Armee, and the result of Battle of the Nations was pretty much to be expected. Napoleons tactical prowess just couldn't make up for the losses to the French military.
 
Wasn't it on the road back from Moscow that the French empire was destroyed? As far as I have surmised Napoleon lost key military resources in the destruction of the Grande Armee, and the result of Battle of the Nations was pretty much to be expected. Napoleons tactical prowess just couldn't make up for the losses to the French military.
If a good part of the German allies, including the infamous Saxons, did not start to shoot by surprise on the French troops in the middle of the battle, perhaps the result could have been different. Damned traitors!
That's why I have lots of respect for the Polish, and I am very shameful we didn't help them in september 1940. They remain trustworthy allies of Napoleon to the end.
 
If a good part of the German allies, including the infamous Saxons, did not start to shoot by surprise on the French troops in the middle of the battle, perhaps the result could have been different. Damned traitors!
That's why I have lots of respect for the Polish, and I am very shameful we didn't help them in september 1940. They remain trustworthy allies of Napoleon to the end.

You sound like you want Napoleon to suceed and become Ruler of Europe....
 
You sound like you want Napoleon to suceed and become Ruler of Europe....

And so? Couldn't have been much worse than Lee Kuan Yew.
 
And so? Couldn't have been much worse than Lee Kuan Yew.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean what could possibly be worser than living in a country that has stability and is making $29,917 per capita. Where that 8 year old girl can walk at night without getting mugged and where children dont bring guns to school and shoot people. I mean my life is hoplessly terrible, I get to live in the dreaded first world country where everything is not poor and dead. Those people are living the good life in Darfur and Zimbawae. Oh boo hoo, why cant there ever be a Civil War in my country? Damn you Lee Kuan Yew! Damn you for the prosperity and peace you brought into my country!
 
Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean what could possibly be worser than living in a country that has stability and is making $29,917 per capita. Where that 8 year old girl can walk at night without getting mugged and where children dont bring guns to school and shoot people. I mean my life is hoplessly terrible, I get to live in the dreaded first world country where everything is not poor and dead. Those people are living the good life in Darfur and Zimbawae. Oh boo hoo, why cant there ever be a Civil War in my country? Damn you Lee Kuan Yew! Damn you for the prosperity and peace you brought into my country!

If you think the end justifies the means, then very well. Let's put it this way: If you know a government has to imprison hundreds (and maybe even kill off some of them) without fair trial just to create a safe haven for the rest of the people, who subsequently will still not have a real freedom to choose for themselves, would you agree with it? If you say yes, then a Napoleonic world should be perfectly fine for you.
 
If you think the end justifies the means, then very well. Let's put it this way: If you know a government has to imprison hundreds (and maybe even kill off some of them) without fair trial just to create a safe haven for the rest of the people, who subsequently will still not have a real freedom to choose for themselves, would you agree with it? If you say yes, then a Napoleonic world should be perfectly fine for you.

Look I know my goverment is not perfect, no goverment is, well maybe Sweden is, but my point is no goverment is perfect and that includes mine. I personally hate a few things my stupid goverment does and how Lee Kuan Yew still holds power after he resigned, how the sucessors of his post as PM are his son and "little pet". How the "Lee Dynasty" we dubbed, control all important facilities like how Lee Hsien Long's wife is the Finance Minister of Singapore. How the ministers and MP's got a raise to add to their million dollar salaries while the rest of the country got a GST increase.

But the way you address Lee Kuan Yew was like he led the country to economic ruin and political unstability comparable to an African country.

Now will you stop insulting me and my country, you nose-picking . .. .. .. ..

Moderator Action: No need for name-calling. If you have an issue, report it. ;) - KD
 
You sound like you want Napoleon to suceed and become Ruler of Europe....
I'd like Napoleon to be ale to rule France without being attacked endlessly by the other powers.
The alternative was to get back the kings.
 
Wasn't it on the road back from Moscow that the French empire was destroyed? As far as I have surmised Napoleon lost key military resources in the destruction of the Grande Armee, and the result of Battle of the Nations was pretty much to be expected. Napoleons tactical prowess just couldn't make up for the losses to the French military.

Napoleon was at a disadvantage to be sure, but it doesn't change the importance of the battle. The reasons for his defeat at the Battle of the Nations lie in Russia & Iberia, but this was the battle where the outcome was decided.
 
If a good part of the German allies, including the infamous Saxons, did not start to shoot by surprise on the French troops in the middle of the battle, perhaps the result could have been different. Damned traitors!
That's why I have lots of respect for the Polish, and I am very shameful we didn't help them in september 1940. They remain trustworthy allies of Napoleon to the end.

:gripe:
It is what has constantly been happening to Poland for the last centuries, Poland helps others, expects some reciprocal help through treaty's and what not, but then in the time of need nothing happens.

Like Poland's support for the USA, one of the few countries that trusts the US and supports them in the new Gulf war and you get nothing in return, not one measly contract even for shoe laces. In fact when stuff lightens up and a new oilfield is found in the Polish sector of Iraq and Poland should according to agreements get some slice of the cake, the Americans go in and conveniently move the Poles to a different, more dangerous sector.

But hey, that is how the world works, I for one am not that pissed of, if anything it gives you a good insight in to the realities of big politics, and Poland is of coarse not the only country that these things happen to.

The stuff I am pissed of at is that often even evident Polish successes are belittled or even stolen for someone else's glory. Like the initial cracking of the enigma codes during WW2 on which all further deciphering was built, where britons have been taught that they did it, and even during WW2 when two of the three Polish mathematicians, who cracked the code, made it alive to the British Isles, they where not allowed to join the British code breaking team.

I guess that is why so many Poles are so fervently upset over things in general.:twitch:
 
But the way you address Lee Kuan Yew was like he led the country to economic ruin and political unstability comparable to an African country.

Assumptions, assumptions.

aronnax said:
Now will you stop insulting me and my country, you nose-picking . .. .. .. ..

Pot calling the kettle black, when the former is much blacker :eek:
 
:gripe:
It is what has constantly been happening to Poland for the last centuries, Poland helps others, expects some reciprocal help through treaty's and what not, but then in the time of need nothing happens.
At least, I recognize what you did, and what we did not.
 
Of coarse!:)
It was not in any way directed against you, but against governmental policies that spill over to less enlightened people.

Sorry if I got you got upset!
Not at all, it was just an attempt at helping you feel better, knowing that such governmental policies is not shared by everyone

And one story I've been told, about the new great friend of Poland, USA.

You know that not so long ago, Poland decided to buy the American F16 figther, instead of the Rafale (not the best move, but their choice). 4 Polish pilots went to the USA to be trained to fly the F16. Of course, the training was paid by Poland. And when the training was finished (and paid), the Americans proposed the 4 pilots to join the US Air force. Only one of them refused and came back.

Apparently, the Polish armed forces where not extra pleased with that.
 
Damn! I hadn't heard of that, that's just beautiful! I've only heard that Poland did not get the reciprocal deals promised with the F16 deal.
 
I'd like Napoleon to be ale to rule France without being attacked endlessly by the other powers.
The alternative was to get back the kings.

Well I guess he could lead France to sucess. Do you have an article that shows Napoleon's skill outside the battlefield?

Pot calling the kettle black, when the former is much blacker :eek:

A little mud slinging never hurt anybody
 
Well I guess he could lead France to sucess. Do you have an article that shows Napoleon's skill outside the battlefield?
An exemple http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Code

Created by Napoleon:
French senate
Bank of France
the prefects (state representative in the French administrative area)
High schools
Chamber of Commerce
Franc (the currency)
Civil code
Arc de Triomph
Prud'hommes (kind of tribunal specialized in work related issued)
Reform of the university
Paris stock exchange
Cour des comptes (accountant for the state)
Baccalaureat (the diploma you get at the end of your studies, just before going university
Penal code
Cadastre (survey of all the lands of France to register their owner)
...
 
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