Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Thanks for waiting/checking, but I'm on vacation for the week and without Civ access until Monday the 28th. I'll need a skip until then.
BB-01 open succession game--fast space race
- Thread starter brasilbear
- Start date
Thanks for waiting/checking, but I'm on vacation for the week and without Civ access until Monday the 28th. I'll need a skip until then.
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
OK, got it then.
brasilbear
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2008
- Messages
- 51
ok, back from vacation, ready to get at this again!!
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
Turnset so far:
Preturn:
Mircomanagement
I leave production of Bowman at Ellipi. I know that veteran forces are better, if you can afford them. However, our game is primarily geared towards scientific output, and we can't really afford dedicated military producers. We have to take what we can get.
I set production in Babylon to Lib. The intention is to have it grow in two turns to size six, and then let it run on "low" food until the lib is finished.
Buy 1 shield at Akkad so that it can finish the Lib in two turns with 5spt and 2fpt. (It's got 1food in its food box right now. In two turns this will be 5.)
Trade: Literature for Construction from the French
Trade: Map Making for 25 Gold from the Inca
Research to Currency. Lower the science slider to 40%. And we are still losing 7 gpt. Currency in 14. I think it is high time to disband some units:
- The warrior adjacent to Nippur (next turn). Doesn't really need replacement.
- Three warriors at Ellipi. (Next turn) Replaced by a Bowman.
- A further warrior either at Akkad or Eridu. Maybe both.
IBT
France complains about troops.
Nineveh completes Worker -- Worker
Ellipi completes Bowman -- Worker (the area is woefully unimproved)
Uruk completes Library -- 'Duct. (We can always reconsider)
975 (1)
Disband the three warriors at Ellipi; Worker due next turn. Disband warrior at Nippur; 2 shields to the lib.
MM and moving units.
IBT
Ellipi completes Worker -- Settler (I'm gonna chop that Deer forest.)
Akkad completes Library -- Settler
950 (2)
Disband Warrior at Akkad.
MM and moving units.
Science is still at 40 % and we're losing 1 gpt. At 50 % we'd lose 16 gpt. We have 50 gold. But next turn a new town is going to go up.
IBT
Nineveh completes Worker -- Worker
925 (3)
Found Shuruppak 1E of 8. (So that it could work the cow.)
Disband other warrior at Akkad
The Inca have another 25 gold. They seem to be busily taking out Barb nests.
Portugal has Currency. Not sure if that is good or bad.
He prices Currency ATM at either
22 gpt, 35 gold, Literature
or
30 gpt, 48 gold
So, Literature is only about 8 gpt and 13 gold worth to him. (Maybe he is researching Lit? Could he have gotten Currency from a goody hut?)
What to do?
(ETA: I am not seriously suggesting the trades above.)
Preturn:
Mircomanagement
I leave production of Bowman at Ellipi. I know that veteran forces are better, if you can afford them. However, our game is primarily geared towards scientific output, and we can't really afford dedicated military producers. We have to take what we can get.
I set production in Babylon to Lib. The intention is to have it grow in two turns to size six, and then let it run on "low" food until the lib is finished.
Buy 1 shield at Akkad so that it can finish the Lib in two turns with 5spt and 2fpt. (It's got 1food in its food box right now. In two turns this will be 5.)
Trade: Literature for Construction from the French
Trade: Map Making for 25 Gold from the Inca
Research to Currency. Lower the science slider to 40%. And we are still losing 7 gpt. Currency in 14. I think it is high time to disband some units:
- The warrior adjacent to Nippur (next turn). Doesn't really need replacement.
- Three warriors at Ellipi. (Next turn) Replaced by a Bowman.
- A further warrior either at Akkad or Eridu. Maybe both.
IBT
France complains about troops.
Nineveh completes Worker -- Worker
Ellipi completes Bowman -- Worker (the area is woefully unimproved)
Uruk completes Library -- 'Duct. (We can always reconsider)
975 (1)
Disband the three warriors at Ellipi; Worker due next turn. Disband warrior at Nippur; 2 shields to the lib.
MM and moving units.
IBT
Ellipi completes Worker -- Settler (I'm gonna chop that Deer forest.)
Akkad completes Library -- Settler
950 (2)
Disband Warrior at Akkad.
MM and moving units.
Science is still at 40 % and we're losing 1 gpt. At 50 % we'd lose 16 gpt. We have 50 gold. But next turn a new town is going to go up.
IBT
Nineveh completes Worker -- Worker
925 (3)
Found Shuruppak 1E of 8. (So that it could work the cow.)
Disband other warrior at Akkad
The Inca have another 25 gold. They seem to be busily taking out Barb nests.
Portugal has Currency. Not sure if that is good or bad.
He prices Currency ATM at either
22 gpt, 35 gold, Literature
or
30 gpt, 48 gold
So, Literature is only about 8 gpt and 13 gold worth to him. (Maybe he is researching Lit? Could he have gotten Currency from a goody hut?)
What to do?
(ETA: I am not seriously suggesting the trades above.)
brasilbear
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2008
- Messages
- 51
If portugal has any contact with anyone we traded lit to, I would take the trade.
I read somewhere that taking gpt slows doing AI research, so we might want to consider that aspect also
I read somewhere that taking gpt slows doing AI research, so we might want to consider that aspect also
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
No, no you misunderstood. We would have to cough up that much gpt, which is not realistic.
brasilbear
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2008
- Messages
- 51
got it, thought that was what he was offering for lit
How much is left on Currency? More than 475b? We also need to take into calculation, that our beaker output is higher than our gold output. So let's assume that 475g would be probably around 600b for us. As there can't be that much left on Currency, I wouldn't make the trade.
However, you should gift Literature to Portugal now in order to prevent that they sell Currency to France for Literature! Nothing would be worse if France gets Currency from Portugal, then finishes Polytheism and when we discover Currency, we have nothing to offer France for their Poly...
However, you should gift Literature to Portugal now in order to prevent that they sell Currency to France for Literature! Nothing would be worse if France gets Currency from Portugal, then finishes Polytheism and when we discover Currency, we have nothing to offer France for their Poly...
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
It is 800 BC now Portugal has Polytheism. He is the only one. I traded Lit for Currency last turn, so that is the only AA tech that we are missing. I have an idea, but I want to check first with the other players:
We could buy Polytheism from Portugal for gpt. He is willing sell us Polytheism for 29 gpt and 8 gold.
Since we are scientific we can then get most of our gpt back by selling Portugal our freebie. The thing is, we not going to get all of our gpt back and we'll lose somewhere between 3 gpt and however much of a deficit he's running on top of that. We have 16 gold in the bank, and the Inca have another 25 which we could get.
So should we do that?
We could buy Polytheism from Portugal for gpt. He is willing sell us Polytheism for 29 gpt and 8 gold.
Since we are scientific we can then get most of our gpt back by selling Portugal our freebie. The thing is, we not going to get all of our gpt back and we'll lose somewhere between 3 gpt and however much of a deficit he's running on top of that. We have 16 gold in the bank, and the Inca have another 25 which we could get.
So should we do that?
How many turns would we gain by this? Around 7-9 turns probably?!
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
Less. Currently 6 or 7.
brasilbear
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2008
- Messages
- 51
my 2 cents (but I have a feeling I'm the weakest player here)
make the trade, if we luck into feudalism, that a tech the AI's go crazy for. 6 turns is a good chunk of turns.
make the trade, if we luck into feudalism, that a tech the AI's go crazy for. 6 turns is a good chunk of turns.
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
So here is finally the complete turnset. The trade with Portugal went only so-so well. We are paying him 7gpt more than we are getting. Meh. But there is also good news. I made a suicide run and probably found the other continent. And the Galley is still afloat.
There are three active settler. One can settle in place next turn. This is spot 8, according to the last dotmap. The second is headed westward up the river. There is a hill right at the beginning of that river. Doesn't look like too bad a spot. The third, which is currently still in Ellipi, could go to the sugar. Two further settlers are about to finish. One in Akkad this IBT, and the other in Babylon the turn after the next.
Have fun exploring, Brasilbear. Watch out for Barbarians!
Spoiler :
There are three active settler. One can settle in place next turn. This is spot 8, according to the last dotmap. The second is headed westward up the river. There is a hill right at the beginning of that river. Doesn't look like too bad a spot. The third, which is currently still in Ellipi, could go to the sugar. Two further settlers are about to finish. One in Akkad this IBT, and the other in Babylon the turn after the next.
Have fun exploring, Brasilbear. Watch out for Barbarians!
Attachments
Is it really me again, already?! brazilbear hasn't played yet, has he? 
Good luck with the galley!! Even though we probably can't expect any technological advances from the other continent, it will hopefully be good for a decent amount of cash and gpt...
One point I want to raise: Lord Emsworth, do you really think it was necessary to disband all these warriors?! I know, templar also recommend to disband them, but I have a different opinion on this topic, as I wrote here:
Even in my science games I usually keep most of my MP-warriors (unless unit-upkeep is really killing me), for the following reasons:
Another point is: if we keep a decent military presence, the AI will be much more friendly and won't get any funny ideas like sneak attacks that could do some serious harm to us...
Good luck with the galley!! Even though we probably can't expect any technological advances from the other continent, it will hopefully be good for a decent amount of cash and gpt...
One point I want to raise: Lord Emsworth, do you really think it was necessary to disband all these warriors?! I know, templar also recommend to disband them, but I have a different opinion on this topic, as I wrote here:
Even in my science games I usually keep most of my MP-warriors (unless unit-upkeep is really killing me), for the following reasons:
- As you said yourself, we cannot afford a military producer for a very long time. The core towns need to be building libraries, markets and some aqueducts and harbors, second ring towns in addition need courthouses asap. (The sooner they are built, the sooner they have amortized themselves.) That's way over a thousand shields in infrastructure projects.
- But we need to conquer territory for science farms asap. The sooner we get that territory and can start working on irrigating it, the better. A size 6 science farm gives you around 10bpt, ten of them is aready 100bpt. They need quite some time to grow and to get the necessary irrigation done, so the earlier we start on them, the earlier we will get to 4-turn research. By disbanding 5 warriors, however, you gain only 10gpt, and only for a very small number of turns, because very soon we'll have enough towns/cities, so that unit upkeep will not be an issue anymore. But even a small force like 5 Medieval Infs could have rolled over a weak neighbor like the Indians rather quickly...
Another point is: if we keep a decent military presence, the AI will be much more friendly and won't get any funny ideas like sneak attacks that could do some serious harm to us...
And to deal with the barbarian uprisings...
Excellent reaction on that interturn trade opportunity! So it is possible to switch into F6 from a boot order?! Didn't know that before... That quick reaction of yours and the resulting possibility of getting both Cur and Poly from the AI has easily recovered some of the turns that we lost due to our bad start.
??
You mean Polytheism, don't you? According to the log, Currency had already been bought the turn before...
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
We are suffering badly from unit support already and every one of those warriors costs us 2 gpt. I think I disbanded 7. That makes 14 gpt we won't have to pay.
Yes, you can leave the negotion table anytime by simply double-clicking your advisor's head. But you have to return to the negotiation screen and conclude trading in order to proceed. So, you can't use it to evade extortions.
Although, it was technically not necessary to set Polytheism as research goal, it was selected automatically. I am not sure why I wrote that I did. I think I adjusted the sliders after trading Literature for Currency.
Of course.
ETA:
And wrt the Barbarians, I have seen horsemen way down south.
Yes, you can leave the negotion table anytime by simply double-clicking your advisor's head. But you have to return to the negotiation screen and conclude trading in order to proceed. So, you can't use it to evade extortions.
Although, it was technically not necessary to set Polytheism as research goal, it was selected automatically. I am not sure why I wrote that I did. I think I adjusted the sliders after trading Literature for Currency.
Of course.
ETA:
And wrt the Barbarians, I have seen horsemen way down south.
