Best and worst UU/UB?

[salty mud]

What are you favourite unique units and unique buildings? It seems to me that the buildings and units of civs pre-BTS are quite a bit weaker than their newer BTS counterparts. (With the notable exception of Rome...) For example, the Mongolian Ger. It gives a nice bonus to cavalry, yes, but it's just a little... flat. Two experience points is a bit poor. Even the Mongolian UU, the Keshik, is poor unless used entirely on it's own, or it will be slowed by the rest of the army.

The Byzantine Cataphract on the other hand.. wow! The Portuguese Feitoria is very useful also; can't complain with extra commerce.

 

[uat2d]

IMO:

Best UU: Praetorian
Best UB: Terrace

Worst UU: Jaguar
Worst UB: Stele

btw, the Portuguese feitoria sucks. Too expensive and too little of an effect.

 

[Ataxerxes]

What are you favourite unique units and unique buildings? It seems to me that the buildings and units of civs pre-BTS are quite a bit weaker than their newer BTS counterparts. (With the notable exception of Rome...) For example, the Mongolian Ger. It gives a nice bonus to cavalry, yes, but it's just a little... flat. Two experience points is a bit poor. Even the Mongolian UU, the Keshik, is poor unless used entirely on it's own, or it will be slowed by the rest of the army.

The Byzantine Cataphract on the other hand.. wow! The Portuguese Feitoria is very useful also; can't complain with extra commerce.

Most of the UU's were weakened with BTS, true. However, Keshik with Ger is actually quite good. Try a Horse Archer attack and you'll see. I'd rank the Cataphract above average, but not the top. Last year there was a poll or worst UB and some people gave detailed explanations of why Feitoria is very weak.

Best UU: Praetorian or War Chariot (I rank ahead of Immortal)
Best UB: Terrace. Honorable mention to Rathaus.

Worst UU: Panzer. However, in a poll majority went for Ballista Elephant.
Worst UB: Assembly Plant.

Note that the worst comes very late. Early advantages are better.

 

[Ghpstage]

What are you favourite unique units and unique buildings? It seems to me that the buildings and units of civs pre-BTS are quite a bit weaker than their newer BTS counterparts. (With the notable exception of Rome...) For example, the Mongolian Ger. It gives a nice bonus to cavalry, yes, but it's just a little... flat. Two experience points is a bit poor. Even the Mongolian UU, the Keshik, is poor unless used entirely on it's own, or it will be slowed by the rest of the army.

The Byzantine Cataphract on the other hand.. wow! The Portuguese Feitoria is very useful also; can't complain with extra commerce.

Keshhiks are actually an amazingly powerful UU thats capable of crushing entire continents, it can do damage comparable to Praets on normal speed. The Ger compliments it nicely, though it is a bit limited in scope.
Cataphracts are good, but I usually go straight for Cuirassiers rather than fiddle around with Knights of any kind.

There are loads of very strong UUs in vanilla civ 4 alone, War Chariots, Immortals, Skrimishers, Fast Workers, Quenchas, Praets, Kesshiks and more, theres no reason to think the BTS ones are better when the top 5 UUs can be found in the list I just gave...

Similarly for UBs, in warlords the Sacrifical Altar, Terrace and Ikhandi are again all top 5s.

The Feitoria is awful by the way, it comes too late and adds very little value to a building thats rarely worth building anyway.

 

[theskibum]

Keshhiks are actually an amazingly powerful UU thats capable of crushing entire continents, it can do damage comparable to Praets on normal speed. The Ger compliments it nicely, though it is a bit limited in scope.
Cataphracts are good, but I usually go straight for Cuirassiers rather than fiddle around with Knights of any kind.

There are loads of very strong UUs in vanilla civ 4 alone, War Chariots, Immortals, Skrimishers, Fast Workers, Quenchas, Praets, Kesshiks and more, theres no reason to think the BTS ones are better when the top 5 UUs can be found in the list I just gave...

Similarly for UBs, in warlords the Sacrifical Altar, Terrace and Ikhandi are again all top 5s.

The Feitoria is awful by the way, it comes too late and adds very little value to a building thats rarely worth building anyway.

Feitorias do have better utility on a water heavy map where most or all cities are likely to be coastal, but I agree, still very bottom tier (likely the worst).

My vote for Best UB - Rauthaus with honorable mention to Ikhanda and Terrace
Best UU - Fast Worker due to utility, honorable mentions to War Chariot, Praets and Redcoats

Worst UB - Feitoria, possibly tied with the Mall
Worst UU - Panzer, Navy Seal and Ballista phant these are all tied IMO

 

[goldys_lackey]

I second the fast worker. Its just too versatile and the benefits are good for the whole game.

 

[lymond]

Best UU: Fast Worker (it's not even close)

Most overrated UU: Praetorian

Best UB: Tough call, but my nod goes to Sacrificial Altar. Too bad the Aztecs have it. IMO the best UBs come relatively early and provide a notable advantage in most situations - usually extra happies and health on buildings that are usually built. Hammans are good. Terrace is nice as granaries are the most important buildings and it means you can ignore Monuments, basically mimicking Creative in that regard. Ikhanda is pretty nice and synergistic with Shaka.

Feitora is definitely on the bottom scale of UBs. It simply won't be built on most maps


As a general note, the value of uniques, especially units, takes a dive as you hit higher levels. I'd value Keshiks MUCH higher than Praets on IMM+ because speed is so important. Praets are pretty darn average against their counter - the axe - and AIs will be building tons of axe on higher levels. With Keshiks you can zoom in and surprise the AIs while pillaging metals. Shock Keshiks hold their own against a spear or two and they are strong than axe.

 

[Mylene]

Conquistador...Conquistador...Conq...oops!
Yea it's the best!

I like the Ger, it fits in great. Keshiks are so much fun.
I never use Praets, it's a bad strat on Deity.
Fast workers are good, but i rarely use many workers /hide..no Lymo, it doesn't beat the Conqs!

Agree on the Sac. Altar, on a better Civ it would be overpowered. Aztecs are not bad with SPI, but nothing special.
Citadels are great for Engineering rushes, CR3 trebs..

edit: i didn't count Quechuas..

 

[strijder20]

Best UB: Rathaus. Great if you want to REX/Corporation spam.
Best UU: I fear I have to vote the Praetorian. There is a reason why some of the highest score games have been won with Rome. Although the Keshik and the Cataphract are nice too. And the Vulture and Phalanx are nice too.

Worst UB : Must be the Mall. I never get to Refrigeration, and they are quite expensive to build.
Worst UU: Navy Seal (too late) or Dog Soldier (although no metals are required, they just get pummeled by anything not holding a spear or sword. Axes are even better than them in some situations).

 

[lymond]

It's interesting the difference in opinion on middle to high range players and the difference of impact certain UUs have on different levels.

I agree that Praets can be quite dominant on lower levels, but most experienced players don't value them on higher levels. They just have a very short life span and almost none on Deity.

Dog Soldiers are actually not bad higher difficult units because they are great for barb defense. you are not going to rush with them, but axe rushes are often not viable on many IMM+ games anway. However they are very strong vs. barb archers and rock against barb axe and make great defenders if you get dinked early by an AI. On Deity, it's mainly about surviving through the early game while you make some play to get ahead. I'd MUCH rather have the Dog on Deity than the Praet.

I've stated this before, but interestingly some of the buildings/UUs that get trashed because they are so late, would actually become quite strong on late starts. The Mall and Seal in that context are quite strong and you actually start with Seals on modern starts, that is, they are your starting units. But yeah, on most normal games those uniques have little impact.

My - I think the fact you don't build a lot of workers makes the Fast Worker even more valuable. I think that is part of their value in general -you don't have to build many of them. I don't play Spain much, but I agree that Conquistadors do get overlooked a lot. Odd considering that Cur warfare is such a focus on high level games. The defense bonus alone makes them quite good. I forget any other bonus they may have...will have to check. Can't beat beefed up Curs though. I think it is the only one.

Oh...and Cataphracts are okay in theory considering that they match Cur strength. However, they are still <Curs and on higher levels it is usually a better play to avoid Guilds and Lib Curs. You get more stuff all around and Guilds is an AI priority tech. Knights just are very good on high levels no matter their strength. On low levels...sure...Catas would rock.

Rathaus is an excellent UB, but HRE not so much

 

[Ghpstage]

The Mall and Seal in that context are quite strong and you actually start with Seals on modern starts, that is, they are your starting units. But yeah, on most normal games those uniques have little impact.

The Mall is perhaps a bit underrated, it comes very late true, but the bonuses it has compared to regular Supermarkets are quite substantial (+20% gold and +3 resource dependant ), its definately not bottom when stuff like the Feitoria, Stele and that godawful Assembly Plant are still in the game.
The Seal on the other hand just has 1-2 First Strikes and a March promotion that is of limited use considering the Marines normal role....

I don't play Spain much, but I agree that Conquistadors do get overlooked a lot. Odd considering that Cur warfare is such a focus on high level games. The defense bonus alone makes them quite good. I forget any other bonus they may have...will have to check.

Defense bonus and +50% against melee, oddly they also don't obsolete when Cavalry can be built which can be bit annoying as queues won't autoupdate. Conqs are pretty awesome though

Best UU: Fast Worker (it's not even close)

What about Quenchas?

 

[uat2d]

The Mall is perhaps a bit underrated, it comes very late true, but the bonuses it has compared to regular Supermarkets are quite substantial (+20% gold and +3 resource dependant ), its definately not bottom when stuff like the Feitoria, Stele and that godawful Assembly Plant are still in the game.
The Seal on the other hand just has 1-2 First Strikes and a March promotion that is of limited use considering the Marines normal role....
Defense bonus and +50% against melee, oddly they also don't obsolete when Cavalry can be built which can be bit annoying as queues won't autoupdate. Conqs are pretty awesome though
What about Quenchas?

I disagree, the Feitoria has its uses. Not so much for the Mall.

Portugal shines near the coast and João has a nasty habit of REXing hard and founding plenty of colonies. In an Archipelago map, it can actually be good.

The mall? By the time it comes around, the game is over, and even if it wasn't, it still wouldn't be game breaking.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Some players have noted the importance of difficulty level on a UU. Praetorian varies on level and so do several others. The Quechua below Monarch is nice but nowhere near as good as it is on Monarch and above, still permitting the warrior rush.

Traits are also level dependent, especially Organized. More valuable a trait the higher the level. The other factor is game speed. On Normal, the Fast Worker is probably the best. On Marathon other UU's work better. Faster units are more valuable on Normal because they don't have as much of an obsolescence problem once they get to the enemy.

Finally there is victory type. Research Institute is OK if you're going for space, worth nothing if you're trying for Culture victory.

 

[GGracchus]

UU: Fast Worker. The amount of saved worker turns far outweighs other UU bonuses, unless roflstomping the world with praets or whatever. My opinion on praets is reflected by lymond's.

UB:tough...Terrace, and Sacrificial Altar, Terrace slightly better so I can get a border pop and a granary in one, Sacrificial Altar=even more whip abuse.

Worst UU: Either landcraps or SEALS, landcraps suck on offense(if engineering rushing I'd use xbows) and defense I'd rather be using other things, SEALS are really late and only usable on watery maps. Ballista elephants suck too but elepult rushes are nice.

Worst UB: Mall, because it's so late. By itself, it's a nice UB, but it comes so late.

 

[Mylene]

Quechuas (what a word to type ~~) are likely to be the most overpowered, it's fun once in a while to choke a Deity AI and capture their capital with them, but it feels cheesy.
Doesn't always work, distance is the main factor here, but when it works you have a huge land mass with a Fin/Ind leader.

@Lymo yip it's true, i was joking around
Fast workers are great, and it's a bit pointless to compare them to a great military unit i think.
There are situations where one or the other will be more valuable.

 

[sydhe]

Unit: I like Janissaries a lot. True, they lose their benefits if you upgrade, but if you beat the AIs to gunpowder, they can be very powerful.

My favorite building is the Dike, since I generally like maps with lots of coast. I really should try playing Terraces with an Expansive leader (or is it Imperialistic--the one with cheap granaries.) Let your city grow to size two, and on the turn before growing, start your granary. You can whip it the next turn.

 

[goldys_lackey]

I enjoy independent civs as much as the next guy but come on... inca + expansive leader? Now that is cheesing.

 

[shulec]

Awful UB Hippodrome. It does not even allow artist specialists to be run, like the theater it replaces. It give one happy with horses. Big deal.

 

[xcrissxcrossx]

The best UB in my opinion is probably the Rathaus, although with my personal style of play the Terrace is very helpful. It is like playing a creative leader along with Huayna Capac's other traits.

Best UU is a harder choice for me, not counting the Fast Worker. I prefer the units that do not go obsolete very quickly. The Praetorian is probably the best, but that's a little cliche. I think my favorite unit besides those is probably the Cossack. It's bonus isn't amazing, it gets 50% attack against mounted units, but it stays in play for a very long time.

Worst UU is either Musketeer or Gallic Warrior. Worst UB is probably Hippodrome, as stated above.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Best UU: War Chariot-- 2 move 5 str worth of rawr; Egypt is always one tech away from it if horses are near

Worst UU: Panzer-- too specialized and too late

Best UB: Ikhanda; It's available early, reduces maintenance and is cheap. Plus you need them if you want to pummel someone.

Worst UB: Feitoria; meh