Best and worst UU/UB?

[MCan]

Best UU that I've used? Cant even answer. Dont fight no more. I'll take the skirmisher. Worst UU? I actually like the Ballista, when I have ivory... While I'm not experienced enoug ot proclaim anything the best, the most useful for me has been the ziggurat. You can cut maintenance earlier with the Ikanda, or more with the Rathaus, but the timing of the zigg works for my rexing playstyle.
Worst UU? I play 98% of my games with a creative leader so I'll vote for the Terrace!!!! Worst UB is tough. I havent used them all. Every one Ive used can be leveraged. The Dun is a building that isnt enticing at all though.

 

[strijder20]

Best UU that I've used? Cant even answer. Dont fight no more. I'll take the skirmisher. Worst UU? I actually like the Ballista, when I have ivory... While I'm not experienced enoug ot proclaim anything the best, the most useful for me has been the ziggurat. You can cut maintenance earlier with the Ikanda, or more with the Rathaus, but the timing of the zigg works for my rexing playstyle.
Worst UU? I play 98% of my games with a creative leader so I'll vote for the Terrace!!!! Worst UB is tough. I havent used them all. Every one Ive used can be leveraged. The Dun is a building that isnt enticing at all though.

Uhm, sorry, but there is a little bit of contradiction in your post. You say you play with a creative leader 98% of the time. I thus assume you like the trait 'creative' very much. Well, the terrace gives an excellent substitution of that trait, and you can still have two other traits.

 

[lymond]

In defense of the Hippodrome, while certainly not among the better UBs, it also gives double the happiness by raising the culture slider. Some may not value that and the building is not going to help your culture victories much, but when you need that happiness it comes in very handy. Also, horse is generally more available than dyes on most maps. Justy is a very good warmonging leader.


Yeah, Gallic Warrior is not going to win any awards, especially on higher levels, but the Celts, especially Boudi, can be very fun to play when making total play for the whole Guerrilla line of promos. GIII is pretty awesome and fun if you can make it happen and it is easy to get with Boudi. Dun Sucks but it synergizes a bit with bringing GII Archers along for the ride and later with gunpowder units if you avoid obsoleting it. (but yeah...Dun in general is the worst UB...very nichy)


I've actually come to value the Stele a bit even though it seems bizarrely misplaced and non-synergistic to Zara. I used to tout it as the total worst. However, when you add it to the Creative culture it really helps secure those borders against those bastahd AIs who commando settle in your face or to do the same to them. That 25% is nothing to sneeze at either in culture games when you are rocking towns in Free Speech.

 

[theskibum]

The best UB in my opinion is probably the Rathaus, although with my personal style of play the Terrace is very helpful. It is like playing a creative leader along with Huayna Capac's other traits.

Best UU is a harder choice for me, not counting the Fast Worker. I prefer the units that do not go obsolete very quickly. The Praetorian is probably the best, but that's a little cliche. I think my favorite unit besides those is probably the Cossack. It's bonus isn't amazing, it gets 50% attack against mounted units, but it stays in play for a very long time.

Worst UU is either Musketeer or Gallic Warrior. Worst UB is probably Hippodrome, as stated above.

Umm...The Hippodrome is actually pretty good. +1 with horse and +1 for every 5% culture increase (effective +2 with every 10%) Not bad at all, particularly if you lack resources

 

[theskibum]

I would also like to amend my candidate for worst UB. Dun takes it someone else pointed out the nichey-ness of it and I have to say I agree with that.

 

[xcrissxcrossx]

I personally never touch the culture slider. just +1happiness for a UB is useless for me.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I would also like to amend my candidate for worst UB. Dun takes it someone else pointed out the nichey-ness of it and I have to say I agree with that.

Cities settled on hills are not rare, and dun gives you a garbage extra promo on those units that makes it really annoying to attack them. I'd much rather a UB that has "reasonable chance to be useful and some chance to be useless" over "virtually always useless" when it comes to its ability to impact a game's outcome.

It has offensive uses too, but those are more commonly seen in MP since humans can't afford 5 defenders/city and still have a stack.

Worst UB: Assembly Plant ----> Resource dependent, marginal bonus over the basic building, and excruciatingly late despite the marginal benefit. Even the mall is better; at least it boosts wall street city for late game corps and allows you to get away with unorthodox civics with the bonus . Despite that the mall is terrible, assembly plant wins.

(dis)Honorable mention: Mall, Feitoria, Forum

Best UB: Sac Altar ----> This is a really tough call for me, because there are 2 others that are also top-notch options. However, sac altar literally lets you get away with more/faster whip cycles (IE more production) and comes with a discount on top of that. It never obsoletes! If you can work slavery into the mid-late game without devastating , you can even kremlin-whip off bio farms. Sick.

Honorable mention: Ikhanda, Terrace

Worst UU: Panzer. Outside of late-game multiplayer where nukes are banned (because if they aren't, they beat everything anyway and anyone sensible is going fission/rocketry), the threat level from AI tanks is virtually nil. Against anything else, even AI infantry/anti-tank/SAM spam, they're just tanks, and that comes with all of the disadvantages normally associated with industrialism + combustion. A very marginal boost on the very latest unique unit in the game? No thanks.

(dis)Honorable mention: Ballista Elephant, SEAL, Landcrap

Best UU: Quecha (single player) and Fast worker (multiplayer). Quecha is obnoxious beyond AI capacity to handle, successfully executing outright kills and chokes. It is the only civ banned in HoF gauntlets/challenger games because if it wasn't everyone would use it. It also takes out barbs with ease and even adds cherries by being available after hooking up metal for cheap HR garrison.

In MP, only very weak players will die or be seriously hindered by quecha attacks/chokes. After all, unlike the AI the human can simply use cheap warriors to block it from gaining defensive positioning in their territory, and then easily kill them. They do stop malicheesechokes and at a minimum keep people honest, but they aren't nearly the force they are in SP. Fast worker takes over, as it quickly clears forests after setting key tile improvements and the player needs less workers overall to set up. A faster growth curve against humans is very stout.

Honorable mention (SP): War chariot, Skirmisher, Immortal, Keshik
Honorable mention (MP): Skirmisher, numidian cavalry, dog soldier, war chariot

Most overrated UUs: Prat, Redcoat, Landcrap
Most underrated UUs: Jaguar, Cho Ko Nu, Keshik

Most overrated UBs: Forum, Dike, Rathaus
Most underrated UBs: Ikhanda, Sac Altar (these should always be in people's top 3)

Forum is overrated because not enough people consider it for bottom-tier. Rathaus and Dike are overrated because they're widely regarded as top UBs instead of simply good ones.

Prats are slow and not cost effective against axes; hard to use against competent humans or high level AIs. Redcoats are nice draft-able units but still need siege or spy help vs other rifles and rarely encounter something other than rifles that they can 1) outperform rifles and 2) beat. Landcraps are just liked too much and are bottom-feeder UU material, right next to ballista elephants.

Keshik terrain move goes beyond what AIs can handle. Jaguars can do a number of things that swords can not do:

1. They are cheaper in
2. They can get stronger-than-medic healing at 5 xp
3. They can fork and choke at 3 xp and will beat axes straight up on those tiles...badly
4. They require no resources to produce

They're not in the top-tier UU list with war chariot/immortal/quecha/fast worker/etc, but they're in the tier right behind. That they're even considered among bottom units is pretty silly.

CKN are serious business. They can be bulbed quickly, hold trait synergy, have the best pre-cannon collateral in the game, and defend obnoxiously well for an offensive unit. Mounted gives them trouble on the flats, but offensively against the AI these things are devastating. Same tier as the jaguar.

 

[MCan]

Uhm, sorry, but there is a little bit of contradiction in your post. You say you play with a creative leader 98% of the time. I thus assume you like the trait 'creative' very much. Well, the terrace gives an excellent substitution of that trait, and you can still have two other traits.

You dont have to be sorry! To cut to chase I'd have to be Incan to have the terrace, and I didnt want the "crutch" of that civ while I tried to get better. The terrace is great for what it does, but it doesnt give cheap libraries, so it isnt a full replacement. There are also "flaws" in my play style, most notably that I dont whip enough. So a granary is a little less important. I'll also take a pretty much free coliseum for the .

Then again I could just give it a go and use a whole horde of leaders I usually wouldnt!

 

[Tatran]

Worst UB: Assembly Plant ----> Resource dependent, marginal bonus over the basic building, and excruciatingly late despite the marginal benefit.

You are saying factories are bad?
It's the German UB which gives a discount with coal, 4 engineer slots and Frederick (ORG) will have another discount.
Maybe you're mistaken with another UB.

 

[theskibum]

Cities settled on hills are not rare, and dun gives you a garbage extra promo on those units that makes it really annoying to attack them. I'd much rather a UB that has "reasonable chance to be useful and some chance to be useless" over "virtually always useless" when it comes to its ability to impact a game's outcome.

So was your point here that the Dun sucks, or its better than I am giving it credit for. Your post feels a bit ambiguous in that regard. Since G1 & 2 are defensive, terrain dependant promos, it seems to me that it can help your stack survive if attacked in the open, but as for garrison units, isn't CG line of promos a better choice overall, especially considering not every city will be built on a hill?

(dis)Honorable mention: Ballista Elephant, SEAL, Landcrap

The Landy is bottom tier UU more by virtue of the abilities of all the mid tier UUs, than for lack of its own ability though. There is certainly a big gap in utility between it and the like of the SEAL, BallliSta Elephant and Panzer.

I agree it isn't that great, but you do need pikes to defend your stack and possibly cities from mounted attack. Landy's ability against melee is still better used defensively, I find promoting them C1 and shock gives the most bang for the buck, because stock pikes are already pretty good against horses. That means the only thing they can't handle is Xbows. Its certainly a situational unit and you won't build many. You also won't be attacking cities with them, but Landy's do provide a solid dual role, allowing you to concentrate your mace promotions along the City Raider line.

Most overrated UUs: Prat, Redcoat, Landcrap
Most underrated UUs: Jaguar, Cho Ko Nu, Keshik

I think your overrated UU's are over rated because they are more powerful at levels Monarch and below (I am not sold on the over ratedness of them on Emperor yet, and believe you all about Imm and Diety). Up to and including Monarch you have a strong chance to out tech the AI to IW or to Rifling which make the Praet and Redcoat viable before there are units on the scene to counter them or at least give them much trouble.

Redcoats coupled with Cannon have been extremely effective for me up to Emperor level (2 of my 4 Emperor wins so far have been with Vicki and Liz where RC's were a huge factor). Everyone has had the curb-stomping with Rome experience. I don't see too many people touting the landy as more than an upper-lower tier unit, unless they are super new to the game. As I have said above, I see a little more versatility there than most folks.

As to your underrated UU's, those are definately strong choices, particularly CKN's which are superb if you are Chinese and hell to deal with if you aren't.

 

[Ghpstage]

You are saying factories are bad?
It's the German UB which gives a discount with coal, 4 engineer slots and Frederick (ORG) will have another discount.
Maybe you're mistaken with another UB.

TMIT isn't saying factories are bad, just that the assembly plant adds very little to it. The discount isn't particularly big, it would be a nice little sweetner perhaps if the UB had something of real value to go with it, but the 2 extra engineer slots aren't enough to compensate for such late timing, and are a bit antisynergenic on a building that causes so much
The UB also saves fewer hammers from its bonus when used with Freddy due to his Org discount by the way.

You also won't be attacking cities with them, but Landy's do provide a solid dual role, allowing you to concentrate your mace promotions along the City Raider line.

The big downside of having this dual role is that your Landys will likely be first defenders against enemy melee. The role of pikes is to defend against mounted and prevent them destroying your seige, if they are defending against melee first then any following mounted will run riot over your seige. This bonus has much more potential for an owngoal than any I can think of....

 

[The7Sins]

Worst UU = Fast Worker. There +1 movement is to little of a benefit over the default to warrant being as useful as any other UU. Hell even the damn Ballistas I find more useful than these.

Worst UB = The Feitora. It comes to late, has to small a benefit, and as I usually am in Merc it loses a lot of the benefits it would usually have.

 

[Mr Jib]

Cities settled on hills are not rare, and dun gives you a garbage extra promo on those units that makes it really annoying to attack them. I'd much rather a UB that has "reasonable chance to be useful and some chance to be useless" over "virtually always useless" when it comes to its ability to impact a game's outcome.

It has offensive uses too, but those are more commonly seen in MP since humans can't afford 5 defenders/city and still have a stack.

I just had a few games with the Celts and actually found the dun pretty good. With a barracks and settled great general you can get the Guerilla 3 promotion straight away for a lot of units which gives a 50% withdraw chance.

It's quite fun attacking cities using gallic warriors and archers and later on longbowmen and musketmen with a 50% withdraw rate. I can imagine you can go on the offensive without iron or copper much earlier than normal.

When you upgrade them to Riflemen they can cause havok (especially if you use a great general and add the tactics promotion to get 80% withdraw rate, although this probably isn't the best use of a GG). Also it helps take those annoying AI cities on hills with the extra 25% hills attack.

 

[reddishrecue]

Starting with the best uu/ub and ending with the worst uu/ub:
This really depends on the map type whethers its pang, ring, continents or hub.
The decision varies because the players could be next to you can have a unit that counter the player's UU.
Early game
Dog Soldier -Only mounteds can counter this and a lot of archers so you then the choice would be Holkan or Impi.
No civ has the university unique.
Maddrassa or obelisk - Priests especially with a shrine can generate income and production for future upgrades but not research.
Carrack - Theres not much use for these unless you want to surprise someone in early island but then you'd have to make a lot to land a stack.
shale plant - a random event can give the same bonus to the factories in your civ.

 

[uat2d]

Starting with the best uu/ub and ending with the worst uu/ub:
This really depends on the map type whethers its pang, ring, continents or hub.
The decision varies because the players could be next to you can have a unit that counter the player's UU.
Early game
Dog Soldier -Only mounteds can counter this and a lot of archers so you then the choice would be Holkan or Impi.
No civ has the university unique.
Maddrassa or obelisk - Priests especially with a shrine can generate income and production for future upgrades but not research.
Carrack - Theres not much use for these unless you want to surprise someone in early island but then you'd have to make a lot to land a stack.
shale plant - a random event can give the same bonus to the factories in your civ.

Have you ever played Archipelago or Terra?

 

[lymond]

Worst UU = Fast Worker. There +1 movement is to little of a benefit over the default to warrant being as useful as any other UU. Hell even the damn Ballistas I find more useful than these.

wow! I don't even know how to respond


@ski Thing is with Reds, that I think you would have similar success with just plain ole Rifles/Cannons. Heck, Cannons and anything are good. Reds are good, especially Churchy Reds, but I don't find them game changers any more than regular Rifles.

No civ has the university unique.

Guess you haven't played Wang yet

 

[Mylene]

Iam sure the fast worker guy was making fun of us..well...did you?!?

 

[Archon_Wing]

Workers are overrated. Who needs to improve tiles anyways? 100% win rate on settler without workers. True Story.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

So was your point here that the Dun sucks, or its better than I am giving it credit for. Your post feels a bit ambiguous in that regard. Since G1 & 2 are defensive, terrain dependant promos, it seems to me that it can help your stack survive if attacked in the open, but as for garrison units, isn't CG line of promos a better choice overall, especially considering not every city will be built on a hill?

I'm saying that the dun sometimes sucks, but there are a few UB that always suck. Therefore, dun can't be worst.

The Landy is bottom tier UU more by virtue of the abilities of all the mid tier UUs, than for lack of its own ability though. There is certainly a big gap in utility between it and the like of the SEAL, BallliSta Elephant and Panzer.

SEAL is unique in that list because its only cause for being bad is the delay. The other two are just bad abilities, but if you had 2 first strikes and march on an early unit it would be pretty devastating.

That means the only thing they can't handle is Xbows.

Xbows, longbows, gunpowder, and SIEGE you mean .

In other words if you put a stack with these sucker units into the territory of a competent player you will be shredded by collateral before you can blink, and then they can basically follow up with whatever they like...it's not like this unit will do anything to a mace if it's only at 2/3 health.

I think your overrated UU's are over rated because they are more powerful at levels Monarch and below (I am not sold on the over ratedness of them on Emperor yet, and believe you all about Imm and Diety). Up to and including Monarch you have a strong chance to out tech the AI to IW or to Rifling which make the Praet and Redcoat viable before there are units on the scene to counter them or at least give them much trouble.

Total misunderstanding here. These UUs are overrated on all levels. I meant what I said. Good players can out-tech the AI to rifles on deity too. But let's look at the units a redcoat will then face:

Pre-gunpowder: Fights the same as a rifle
Muskets: Better vs them than rifles
Rifles: Better vs them than rifles, but you still can't do anything without siege or airship support, but if you have that rifles are fine too.
Infantry: Still going to get roflstomped

Hooray, they're a bit better offensively against a unit the AI can't even upgrade its units into. THAT is supposed to be top tier? You will get better results with stock protective or aggressive rifles. And while redcoat/cannon works well for you, I bet you'll find that rifle cannon or anything/cannon works well for you also. If you keep cannons from getting flanked and give them CR II, they will cost effectively maul absolutely everything until machine guns/infantry, and with CR III sprinkled in are ok even then.

The prat is also overrated. People are picking it as a top UU. That is wrong on every speed but marathon and arguable even there. It's not that it's bad, but it gets woefully outperformed by quecha, war chariot, immortal, keshik, etc. They are 1 move on an awkward tech timing.

Not to mention on monarch and below you can win domination using plain old horse archers. Exclusively. You can probably do it faster than prats too. Just saying.

TMIT isn't saying factories are bad, just that the assembly plant adds very little to it.

This coupled with how late the UB is. If you have to wait until the late-mid to end game, the bonus should be something great, not something that gets its pants pulled down by classical era UBs!

Worst UU = Fast Worker. There +1 movement is to little of a benefit over the default to warrant being as useful as any other UU. Hell even the damn Ballistas I find more useful than these.

This is a joke right? Has to be a joke. Can't possibly be serious. Ok. I'll laugh.

The decision varies because the players could be next to you can have a unit that counter the player's UU.
Early game
Dog Soldier -Only mounteds can counter this and a lot of archers so you then the choice would be Holkan or Impi.
No civ has the university unique.
Maddrassa or obelisk - Priests especially with a shrine can generate income and production for future upgrades but not research.
Carrack - Theres not much use for these unless you want to surprise someone in early island but then you'd have to make a lot to land a stack.
shale plant - a random event can give the same bonus to the factories in your civ.

Oh wow. I normally go line item by line item when pointing out something that is wrong, but for a change I can paste an entire block of text into a quote tag and call it wrong instead. Painful.

- Dog soldiers have no offensive value against archers and are rather unimpressive even against axes if they try to attack anything, so they take a strict defense or early pillage/choke role. They're good, but they have more counters than "only mounted"
- Korea has a University UB
- Priests can generate a shrine, but what we don't cover is how often that is strictly terrible
- I see no need to even bother addressing the "no uses" for carracks, though obviously they're water-dependent
- Random events don't allow you major resource income and a hefty health bonus within a single event. Random events are also garbage. No UU can beat out what random events CAN do. Shale plant suffers being late but its bonus is far better than that of the assembly plant's at least.

 

[Floating Pants]

Worst UU = Fast Worker. There +1 movement is to little of a benefit over the default to warrant being as useful as any other UU. Hell even the damn Ballistas I find more useful than these.

You know that they actually build improvements faster, not just move, right?


I find the fast worker to be the be my favorite UU due to its longevity and constant usefulness.

The overall greatest UB would most definitely go to the sacraficial altar, but I personally really like the pavilions.