Beta Build Update Incoming...

[DemonMaster]

Can agree that the Brazilian unit wasn't the hottest one on the beach, but, right, before this beta-patch, at least it was unique. UU doesn't have to be extremely good or so, look at the Hakkapelitta, it is probably the most useless UU in the game (a small bonus if it is with a general) but at least it is unique. Now the Brazilian unit is not even that and also it comes late which should call for a hefty bonus.

 

[Gort]

The Brazilian UU synergises well with its Civ, though. Brazil loves being in Golden Ages, America gets nothing more out of it than anyone else does.

 

[FeiLing]

Idea for Minutemen instead: (before you shout that already exists: Persia has that for every unit during GAs)
+1 movement during Golden Ages

edit: (re-thinking it... nah... god damn they're already insane. Ignoring terrain costs is INSANE. AND Drill I and +1 Sight.)
(What's the problem with it? People were mad because they're obsolete too fast? Well guess what, Janissary and Musketeer have the same problem, especially the latter is pretty lackluster as it doesn't have a promotion that would carry over when you upgrade them).


Concerning Brazil: I'm aware that Pracinhas were famous for fighting in WWII... I still feel like they could have a 10% combat bonus in Jungle.

 

[DemonMaster]

The Brazilian UU synergises well with its Civ, though. Brazil loves being in Golden Ages, America gets nothing more out of it than anyone else does.

But they come in late. Sure Tourism is high in the late game, but Golden Ages are good for everyone and starting to trigger them with Minutman already, America will probably have more than one extra Golden Age that other nations do not get.
If they do needed to buff America (????) why not come up with something that has a connection to them, points for GW (manifest) or Culture. Also I do not know yet if this "golden age points" ability stays but if it stays it is OP, if it doesn't, then America only get some golden age points during the renaissance and probably a golden age during that time and then I think it is ok (still not so unique, but not so OP).

 

[Txurce]

There are overlaps all over the place. Take Denmark's Ski Infantry. It's a weaker version of the Minuteman... except it theoretically spawns from an amphibious Berserker. All UU's have to be evaluated in the context of the entire package - not against other UU's, out of context.

 

[DemonMaster]

There are overlaps all over the place. Take Denmark's Ski Infantry. It's a weaker version of the Minuteman... except it theoretically spawns from an amphibious Berserker. All UU's have to be evaluated in the context of the entire package - not against other UU's, out of context.

Ski Infantry got +25% Combat in Snow, Tundra and Hills (w/ no forests/jungle) also double movement.

Minutman got Drill II (promotion) and ignores terrain.

I must say that they are not so much the same, they are specialists in two different types of terrain. Other units are specialists of other terrain types.

At least if they do keep this American buff, buff the Prachinas as well with something since it is a much later unit and will be in play much less (less units with less time that can inherit its abilities).

Edit: Also I do think they should give Denmark a Tundra Coastal start. Since Denmark represent Denmark-Norway they should change this. This will buff Denmark a little bit. I can accept that Sweden got a tundra start even though Sweden doesn't have any bonus for it. But Denmark (with Norway who actually have tundra) should have, after all, Viking went Viking because of the scarce land.

 

[Txurce]

At least if they do keep this American buff, buff the Prachinas as well with something since it is a much later unit and will be in play much less (less units with less time that can inherit its abilities).

My point is that that comparing the Pracinhas to any other UU is irrelevant in terms of balance. It is part of the Brazilian civ, and can only be evaluated in that context. It doesn't need buffing, unless you think Brazil is UP.

Having said that, I agree that giving the UU's sole trait to another UU as a partial trait feels very unimaginative.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'd give the Minutemen the ability to found cities with either pop 2 or with free city walls, or a free granary, etc.

Really get that Manifest Destiny going

 

[Gort]

I'd give the Minutemen the ability to found cities with either pop 2 or with free city walls, or a free granary, etc.

Really get that Manifest Destiny going

I normally find that all the decent sites are taken long before gunpowder. I've never founded a city with a Conquistador, for instance.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I normally find that all the decent sites are taken long before gunpowder. I've never founded a city with a Conquistador, for instance.

Well if you are on a warpath, you may be razing some cities... these would allow you to fill in.

 

[kamex]

I think they should give Longbow-men the ability to purge all religions from cities they capture. Its an unneeded buff with no historical basis, bit that seems to be the theme of this patch (deep fishing Samurai, Golden Age minute-men)

 

[Dunkah]

I'm not really sure what any of the abilities for Minutemen have to do with the Real Life American Minuteman...

Minutemen should be civilians who jump to arms when a war breaks out. Therefore they should have the ability to act as workers during peace times with no upkeep costs. Then when they go to war they should have good defensive abilities, depicting their ability to use cover when the use of cover was frowned upon.

Then be able to change back to a worker after the battle is over.

Once it upgrades it could represent modern day reservists, or draftees, that retain the ability to step down to a worker after they are done fighting.

 

[cpm4001]

Minutemen should be civilians who jump to arms when a war breaks out. Therefore they should have the ability to act as workers during peace times with no upkeep costs. Then when they go to war they should have good defensive abilities, depicting their ability to use cover when the use of cover was frowned upon.

Then be able to change back to a worker after the battle is over.

Once it upgrades it could represent modern day reservists, or draftees, that retain the ability to step down to a worker after they are done fighting.

I agree. The Golden Age Ability is completely silly and tacked-on, while this suggestion at least makes some sense historically.

 

[Zodan_Mir]

Given that minutemen were fighting for independence and freedom, I'd say the golden age bonus makes sense. Have to remember the historical context, not just what they were in plain terms.

 

[Gigaz]

Wouldn't it have made more sense then, from the historical context, to make them take away the enemies golden age points?

 

[Barathor]

I'm not really sure what any of the abilities for Minutemen have to do with the Real Life American Minuteman...

I agree. The Golden Age Ability is completely silly and tacked-on, while this suggestion at least makes some sense historically.

The two promotions, Ignores Terrain Costs and Drill I, represent their high mobility and their skirmish style of fighting: ambush attacks, sharpshooting under cover, and then usually running. They used the familiar terrain to their advantage.

The points towards a golden age isn't too hard to figure out. The minutemen fought in the Revolutionary War, which achieved independence for America and put it on the path towards becoming a superpower.

Minutemen should be civilians who jump to arms when a war breaks out. Therefore they should have the ability to act as workers during peace times with no upkeep costs. Then when they go to war they should have good defensive abilities, depicting their ability to use cover when the use of cover was frowned upon.

Then be able to change back to a worker after the battle is over.

Once it upgrades it could represent modern day reservists, or draftees, that retain the ability to step down to a worker after they are done fighting.

That's an interesting idea as well. Though, I don't believe the "no upkeep" part would be balanced.

 

[rexman07]

I think they should give Longbow-men the ability to purge all religions from cities they capture. Its an unneeded buff with no historical basis, bit that seems to be the theme of this patch (deep fishing Samurai, Golden Age minute-men)

trololol

Mongol Keshiks should give you science for every tile they pillage!
Hunic Battering Rams should have embarkation with defense!
Indian War Elephants should generate tourism while garrisoned in cities!

Wait, that last one actually makes sense!
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/elephant-riders-amber-fort-india-17308586.jpg

 

[kamex]

I'm not really sure what any of the abilities for Minutemen have to do with the Real Life American Minuteman...

Minutemen should be civilians who jump to arms when a war breaks out. Therefore they should have the ability to act as workers during peace times with no upkeep costs. Then when they go to war they should have good defensive abilities, depicting their ability to use cover when the use of cover was frowned upon.

Then be able to change back to a worker after the battle is over.

Once it upgrades it could represent modern day reservists, or draftees, that retain the ability to step down to a worker after they are done fighting.

Why not make them regular musket-men with half the production cost, like the old German UU. This would represent the 'quick response' of the historical unit.

 

[cpm4001]

The points towards a golden age isn't too hard to figure out. The minutemen fought in the Revolutionary War, which achieved independence for America and put it on the path towards becoming a superpower.

But it still doesn't really fit in properly. For the Pracinhas, there's at least some historical context - their exploits fighting the Axis in WWII were turned into propaganda back in Brazil while the war was still going on, which improved public opinion and "happiness". The Minutemen's exploits on the other hand have only been retroactively turned into happiness-inducing propaganda - at the time, what would become the USA was hardly unified behind the revolutionary Continental Army, and so the their successes (of which there were few until the French, Dutch, and Polish lent a hand...) really didn't do much to improve happiness except amongst the small segment of the populace that was completely supportive of the revolution. So, in theory, the Golden Age Points from kills should be delayed a few eras, which of course would suck from a gameplay perspective.
To me, it really feels that Firaxis just tried to balance out the weak American UA (which they didn't redo, for some reason) by making the Minutemen a ridiculously overpowered unit.

 

[Gort]

To me, it really feels that Firaxis just tried to balance out the weak American UA (which they didn't redo, for some reason) by making the Minutemen a ridiculously overpowered unit.

There's plenty of precedent - look at the Mongols. And I really don't attach the same value to Minutemen that others do. It's not a particularly good unit.