Beta Testers Needed!

[dudeSDCA]

Colonist & Pioneers -- Given all the new buildings that's been added -- do you think we should take a look at what's getting "auto-built" by Colonists/Pioneers and update if necessary?

I don't think I have a recommendation here, just a general thought...

 

[Afforess]

Afforess,
AWESOME job with this! A few thoughts / bug reporting /etc:

Advance Diplomacy (bugs & requests):
- I'm noticing that I'm still getting some diplomacy requests where they just open a window with nothing to say
- The Vikings keep messaging me every turn to establish an embassy, even though I chose "cease bothering me"

Okay. I think I already know what's wrong with the Viking issue.
(I just fixed it.)

As for the other diplomacy requests, I'm not sure. I need to test the game more.

Requests:
- It seems strange to me that the AI can request things of me that I will not give, but when I turn down the request, I get penalized. But I can't demand things of theirs that are in red. For instance -- let's say I really want them to adopt my religion. If it's grey'd out, I can't demand it, I can't bribe them, etc. Seems strange.

This is the way Diplomacy works. The problem with this idea is that if I removed the red/greyed out diplomacy options, the AI would let you trade it, even if you're the worst enemy. The red text is needed so the AI doesn't make trades that would be disadvantageous.

- I think the diplo bonuses are unbalanced. If I get a civ under me (vassal), and I choose to give them 6 techs, I should get a lot more than just +4 "our trade relations have been fair" -- I should get a +1 for each tech shared up to +4 (total) (which can decay over time). Sometimes I give them a tech and I don't even get the bonus "you've shared your discoveries with me"

I disagree. This would seriously unbalance diplomacy, and make games much less interesting. If getting good diplomacy just required a few free techs, then America would be best friends with everyone.

Opinion:
- Agree about the foundling hospital is imbalanced
- Love the new civic buildings
- Techs: Love that you added coinage and guilds to the economy -- BRILLIANT. I alway thought it was strange that you had no real options until midish-game and suddenly you get Mercant. & Econ right after one another

Guilds still needs some balancing, methinks.

- Workers: Any way to increase the value that workers assign to building cottages? It seems as those they're not "aware" of the bonuses (esp. late game), so they're building a farm in places where I think maybe a cottage should go?
- AI Explorering: I've seen the AI pass up goodie huts on occasion, even if they're unguarded. Any way to increase the value the AI has on exploring? Also, early game, I'll have explored my whole continent, and when I finally get cartog. & trade maps, it seems the AI has only explored a really small area around their civ.

I can increase the AI weight of scouts and explorers a bit, and see what happens. Same for Cottages.

Question:
- Tech diffuser. So I was playing around with some custom settings and got out into the renaissance age while some were still in the ancient era. I gave 4 civs a BUNCH of techs (20+) to boost them into medieval age, but didn't see any free techs appear to be given to the lowest civs, rebels, or for their research time to speed up. Any ideas?

Hmm. I've seen Tech Diffusion work perfectly in my games. Perhaps you just need to be on a higher difficulty level?

 

[Afforess]

Colonist & Pioneers -- Given all the new buildings that's been added -- do you think we should take a look at what's getting "auto-built" by Colonists/Pioneers and update if necessary?

I don't think I have a recommendation here, just a general thought...

I don't think they need much updating, since they are given basic buildings. Most modmods just add superfluous buildings...unless you have any specific changes in mind.

 

[dudeSDCA]

This is the way Diplomacy works. The problem with this idea is that if I removed the red/greyed out diplomacy options, the AI would let you trade it, even if you're the worst enemy. The red text is needed so the AI doesn't make trades that would be disadvantageous.

I disagree. This would seriously unbalance diplomacy, and make games much less interesting. If getting good diplomacy just required a few free techs, then America would be best friends with everyone.

So I guess what I'm reacting to is that diplomacy seems balanced to be more negative than positive. I have all these red diplo. penalties that I can't seem to offset:
e.g., We are worried that you have our rivals as your vassals; your large civilization is threatening to us; you won't convert to our faith (but you can't even request them to convert to yours because it's red)

"In the real world" (with a grain of salt, since it's a game), the US could bribe other countries with trade, $$, technologies, etc., and get a more favorable relationship, or get things that it couldn't otherwise get.

So I'm looking for something similar -- if my rival has 0 gold and I offer him 20,000 gold (for example) -- shouldn't that be enough of a bribe to offset what might otherwise be a bad decision. Same with techs -- if I give a civ 20+ techs -- shouldn't I see something more than just "we have a good trade relationship". Not looking for a BIG bonus -- just something more than just "our trade relations are fair" which I seem to be able to get with a half-dozen options.

Last -- any way to use the threat of war to help "change" an AIs attitude. Let's say I'm 80x more powerful (for example) -- I should be able to demand things that are red/gray out and threaten war over it. The AI can always choose war -- but at least it can evaluate that possibility (e.g., is not converting or giving X worth going to war).

Hmm. I've seen Tech Diffusion work perfectly in my games. Perhaps you just need to be on a higher difficulty level?

Playing Immortal level (but using worldbuilder for techs and some other bonuses) for testing purposes, which is why I was surprised that the tech diffuser wasn't seeming to work right.

If I wanted to try to increase the % bonus, should I just increase the TECH_DIFFUSION_KNOWN_TEAM_MODIFIER? (and by doing so, I won't be posting logs/bugs/etc.)

Thanks!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

SHH! the foundling hospital is not OP it i just nice, would be sweet if we could get AI to use it

I agree, it is very expensive and only available under one civic, but then I play on snail and it can take 50+ turns to build it.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Colonist & Pioneers -- Given all the new buildings that's been added -- do you think we should take a look at what's getting "auto-built" by Colonists/Pioneers and update if necessary?

I don't think I have a recommendation here, just a general thought...

The other option, of course, is to have national wonders, which provide free buildings. Like OrionVeteran's Strategic Grain Reserve which works quite nicely in RoM you don't even need the python that comes with it since RoM already has it.

I should be able to post a modular version of this national wonder soon.

 

[CMKMStephens]

Yes, I know. No Storms just makes it so storms dissipate after one turn, not that they don't form.

Oh right,

 

[AncientSion]

Foundling Hospital should be probably be +2 pop in the town that build it and not +1 in EVERY city.
I just having another game, i have 12 cities and at this point every foundling hospitals gives me 12 more pop, or 12 more worked tiles. +2 or if you want to stretch it +3 for the city will be okay. Basicly, now it gives 10-15 pop, or even more if later build. So, if you are saying 10 - 15 more pop is not imba, i dont know what is lol.
Even 2-3 pop for a single building is very good.

Keep in mind if you want to keep the hospital as it is you basicly get a hanging garden, for less in each city.

 

[Afforess]

So I guess what I'm reacting to is that diplomacy seems balanced to be more negative than positive. I have all these red diplo. penalties that I can't seem to offset:
e.g., We are worried that you have our rivals as your vassals; your large civilization is threatening to us; you won't convert to our faith (but you can't even request them to convert to yours because it's red)

"In the real world" (with a grain of salt, since it's a game), the US could bribe other countries with trade, $$, technologies, etc., and get a more favorable relationship, or get things that it couldn't otherwise get.

Um, the real world doesn't work like that at all. You can't buy friends. Not real friends.
That applies for Civ as well.

So I'm looking for something similar -- if my rival has 0 gold and I offer him 20,000 gold (for example) -- shouldn't that be enough of a bribe to offset what might otherwise be a bad decision. Same with techs -- if I give a civ 20+ techs -- shouldn't I see something more than just "we have a good trade relationship". Not looking for a BIG bonus -- just something more than just "our trade relations are fair" which I seem to be able to get with a half-dozen options.

If you have 20k gold, why not just "buy" an army and take them by force?

Regardless, if you gave 20k gold, I believe you would get a +4 "fair and forthright" trades bonus. That said, I could look at moving the relations bonus cap from +4 to +6, but that would be a major change, and probably need a vote. I wouldn't move it any higher though.

Last -- any way to use the threat of war to help "change" an AIs attitude. Let's say I'm 80x more powerful (for example) -- I should be able to demand things that are red/gray out and threaten war over it. The AI can always choose war -- but at least it can evaluate that possibility (e.g., is not converting or giving X worth going to war).

If you're 80x more powerful, the AI will become your vassals, in which case you can ask for almost everything.

Playing Immortal level (but using worldbuilder for techs and some other bonuses) for testing purposes, which is why I was surprised that the tech diffuser wasn't seeming to work right.

If I wanted to try to increase the % bonus, should I just increase the TECH_DIFFUSION_KNOWN_TEAM_MODIFIER? (and by doing so, I won't be posting logs/bugs/etc.)

Thanks!

Yes, and Yes.

Foundling Hospital should be probably be +2 pop in the town that build it and not +1 in EVERY city.
I just having another game, i have 12 cities and at this point every foundling hospitals gives me 12 more pop, or 12 more worked tiles. +2 or if you want to stretch it +3 for the city will be okay. Basicly, now it gives 10-15 pop, or even more if later build. So, if you are saying 10 - 15 more pop is not imba, i dont know what is lol.
Even 2-3 pop for a single building is very good.

Keep in mind if you want to keep the hospital as it is you basicly get a hanging garden, for less in each city.

Several problems with this:

1.) There is no existing modifier to give population in only one city. Not that this has ever stopped me, but...
2.) It's already been given a bit of a health bonus and turned into a National Wonder for the next release

 

[os79]

#1 Any way you can incorporate the cool feature of your Military Civics that show what building you can build for all other civic categories?

#2 Festival... You might want to explore its power... However, if you feel it is just fine, don't bother :smirk: I love its powrful boost for my economy at Noble difficulty :snigger:.

#3 Keep up the great job! .

 

[os79]

Did you mess about with Ancient Cannon, maybe its default catapult?
Finally the Mongolians attacked me. Now I was preparing to bombard its unit next to my horse tile. And I discovered to my distraught shock that the bombard button is no longer there :gasp:. Or did the bombard button got messed up?

I know that in original RevDCM, catapults are not allowed to bombard-do collateral damage but Zappara changed it to allow them to do that.

 

[TechXLtd]

Did you mess about with Ancient Cannon, maybe its default catapult?
Finally the Mongolians attacked me. Now I was preparing to bombard its unit next to my horse tile. And I discovered to my distraught shock that the bombard button is no longer there :gasp:. Or did the bombard button got messed up?

I know that in original RevDCM, catapults are not allowed to bombard-do collateral damage but Zappara changed it to allow them to do that.

In your Bug Options menu (CTRL+ALT+O) There is an option under the RevDCM tab that says something like ranged bombardment or something of the sort. Make sure what you want on is checked. That may be your only issue.

 

[os79]

In your Bug Options menu (CTRL+ALT+O) There is an option under the RevDCM tab that says something like ranged bombardment or something of the sort. Make sure what you want on is checked. That may be your only issue.

It is on by default anyway. Plus I know it is on from the start up side pop up screen.
So, no, your solution fails .

EDIT: I can make mistakes like anyone but this type of mistake is so newbie that it would be extremely hard fo me to miss that procedure first before reporting.

 

[strategyonly]

Dont know if anyone has reported this or not when you HOVER over an Imperial Guard, if they did sorry:

<Button>Modules/Custom Units/Modular Civics Units/Art/Buttons/ImperialGuard 1.dds</Button>

I believe its because of the space\ing with BULL?

 

[Ophincar]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/rzey3q

In a couple of turns an apostolic decision will appear asking me to give a city back to Egypt.

Each time i defy the resolution, the game crashes.

 

[Cozart]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/rzey3q

In a couple of turns an apostolic decision will appear asking me to give a city back to Egypt.

Each time i defy the resolution, the game crashes.

There is an easy fix for that, give the city back to Egypt. Stealing is wrong. lol

 

[winthrowe]

you asked in the op, and the great mosque seems broken to me; the Confucian cathedral didn't seem to get built any faster, and it didn't give me extra commerce on my sole desert tile.

mosque built in gao 2 turns ago, and cathedral under construction in Timbuktu. has standard install of your modmods, os79 modmods, and an increased wondercount, since although it says the limit was upped, I had 4/4 till I edited it to 6/8. the cathedral was under construction before the mosque was finished, if that matters.

 

[Afforess]

you asked in the op, and the great mosque seems broken to me; the Confucian cathedral didn't seem to get built any faster, and it didn't give me extra commerce on my sole desert tile.

The cathedral should be built faster, I coded that in the SDK, but I didn't mess with the extra commerce...

 

[Deathwind]

It is on by default anyway. Plus I know it is on from the start up side pop up screen.
So, no, your solution fails .

EDIT: I can make mistakes like anyone but this type of mistake is so newbie that it would be extremely hard fo me to miss that procedure first before reporting.

I will back that up. I edited some of the xml files (just tweaking the units a bit), so I can't post a save.
However, for two games in a row, I have been unable to use the DCM bombardment settings (any of them).

I normally play with ranged bombardment, opportunity fire, naval bombardment, and ranged support enabled (but archers disabled). Nevertheless, even with those boxes checked, the last two games I have played (both with beta4, I didn't have this problem with beta2) operated as if all the above options were disabled -- none of my naval or artillery units have been able to ranged bombard, either manually, or as opportunity fire or ranged support.

While I am reporting bugs (edited XML notwithstanding) the other major bug I have found seems to focus on the Limited Religions setting -- if I play with Limited Religions, no religions will be founded in games that start after the Medieval era, and only one religion (worldwide) will be founded if I start in Classical or Medieval.

All that being said, the speed increase is INCREDIBLE! The increase in speed between this and RoM 2.8 is at least 400-500% on my computer. I would much rather play a buggy beta at this speed than play anything else at normal speeds. Kudos to Aforess!

 

[Afforess]

A New Dawn 1.50beta5 is out.

No huge changes, but I updated Civic Buildings, fixed a few bugs, and added Early Buildings.

The Mastery Screen is working properly now, but it still ends too early. Some Civic Buildings have been balanced. Guilds Civic got boosted a bit, as it was a little weak.

Enjoy.

PS. No more releases until after exams in two weeks.