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[Beyond the Sword] History In The Making

I hate contradicting Drew but I have actually made the following trial. I took one of Civ Gold's modular civilizations and placed it into HitM modules folder. It loaded just fine and I was able to play few turns with the Czech empire. Now should it make some troubles later on? There is a probability. The technical reason is. HitM includes DCM which adds custom tags for units and buildings. UUs and UBs of custom civilization don't have these tags. This doesn't mean that these buildings or units just have to cause a problem. They might. I say give it a trial as it is as simple as copy & paste process. Go into HitM folder assets\modules create a new folder inside that "name it custom civilizations". Place the folder of your additional civ in the new folder. That should be all.

Please, don't use a replacement of a civ that is already in HitM. Also don't try to add a leader to an existing civ either.
 
I hate contradicting Drew but I have actually made the following trial. I took one of Civ Gold's modular civilizations and placed it into HitM modules folder. It loaded just fine and I was able to play few turns with the Czech empire. Now should it make some troubles later on? There is a probability. The technical reason is. HitM includes DCM which adds custom tags for units and buildings. UUs and UBs of custom civilization don't have these tags. This doesn't mean that these buildings or units just have to cause a problem. They might. I say give it a trial as it is as simple as copy & paste process. Go into HitM folder assets\modules create a new folder inside that "name it custom civilizations". Place the folder of your additional civ in the new folder. That should be all.

Please, don't use a replacement of a civ that is already in HitM. Also don't try to add a leader to an existing civ either.

Hey no worries ;) If it works, go for it. I was straying on the cautious side of safe, as it may cause errors later on as you said, and a civ written by another person may not work in the exact same way as ones from CIV GOLD. If there were any major discrepencies between tags in the xml's, it probably wouldn't load in the first place anyway.

All help appreciated Kalimakhus :), I'm only babysitting, but it's not my baby ;)
 
@Drew

You are doing an excellent job baby setting the thread.

About xml tags discrepancies, they do exist. i.e. UBs and UUs of the Civs from Civ Gold do miss some tags. It loads fine because the info files for these civs are checked against the schema files that come with them and not against the ones in HitM. There is a great chance that this won't cause a problem. Knowing Dale's work his code may provide default values for missing tags. If this is the case no problems should arise at all.

I hope someone would report back about this because it will be fun to be able to play more civs with HitM. Unfortunately I have no time nowadays to test a custom civ through a whole game. I will sure do it once I have time.
 
@Drew

You are doing an excellent job baby setting the thread.

About xml tags discrepancies, they do exist. i.e. UBs and UUs of the Civs from Civ Gold do miss some tags. It loads fine because the info files for these civs are checked against the schema files that come with them and not against the ones in HitM. There is a great chance that this won't cause a problem. Knowing Dale's work his code may provide default values for missing tags. If this is the case no problems should arise at all.

I hope someone would report back about this because it will be fun to be able to play more civs with HitM. Unfortunately I have no time nowadays to test a custom civ through a whole game. I will sure do it once I have time.

That's interesting to know that they read from their own schema (shows how much I know about how modules function :lol:)....thanks for the info:goodjob:. I'm learning the "innards" of HiTM a bit more every day, I just haven't time to really sit down and completely take it apart as such...

Having a break from work now for Easter, hope to get some actual playing of HiTM myself.

And Uncle Anton , or anyone else, if you do try adding another Civ in as Kalimakhus suggested, let us know how it goes, thanks.
 
That's interesting to know that they read from their own schema (shows how much I know about how modules function :lol:)....thanks for the info:goodjob:. I'm learning the "innards" of HiTM a bit more every day, I just haven't time to really sit down and completely take it apart as such...

Having a break from work now for Easter, hope to get some actual playing of HiTM myself.

And Uncle Anton , or anyone else, if you do try adding another Civ in as Kalimakhus suggested, let us know how it goes, thanks.

Hmmmm Civ Gold hey?

I might "nick" the Aussie Civ from there (I think I have a slightly older version of Gold installed as well) and see if I can't import it in... I can imagine how the lack of a 2nd UU/UB might cause a problem... I'll have a play and get back to everyone. Might take a while... with Easter coming up I'm fighting off the family to get to the computer and not just the girlfriend :)

Edit: Thanks for the input everyone... :) I'll let you guys know how I go. :)
 
Played through a good share of a few games on this mod. Some praise and criticism.

I've played on Prince and Monarch and the game seems to remain competitive throughout the game, which is good. And one of my major criticisms of my personal favorite mod. (TR) I like the new resources and I appreciate you guys resisting the urge to add more worker based micromanagement with dozens of new improvements. (or if there were very many, I hadn't encountered them yet)

I love the variety of effects from the new wonders added. I also enjoy the fact that many are quite specific (often religiously specific) on the various things that must be built to get them. Really a nice touch. Had to spread Buddhism like mad to get that cool Shaolin temple thing.

Maybe you guys were shooting for something in particular, but the balance seems to be off a bit when it comes to build/tech times. I know markets, banks, and forges are pretty cool, but is there a reason they cost nearly as many turns as some later Wonders? (and those wonders cost a ton of turns even in fully built up cities) Workers take nearly forever to accomplish things as well.

The variety in the traits were great, but the alterations in the Civics was a bit too extreme for my tastes. It seemed you guys went out of your way to 'balance' them and the end result is that some civics have too many liabilities to be worthwhile. (not compared to other civics, but compared to the starter 'tribalism' level civics) I mean organized religion looks fine until you notice a 33% Unit build PENALTY. Good luck fighting a war with that.

Would like a bit more variety on the military units as well as some clearer advantages between tech periods of units beyond the 1-2 strength points.

And the city income/maintainence curve seems to be a bit neutered. There was a fully functional and prosperous Vikings and China with cities spread from Malaysia to Scotland fairly early in the game without any apparent income or research troubles. Reminded me of Civ-3 style 'settler race' spread. (not to mention the fact that I took Persia and half of India from my base in Egypt and was still able to maintain 95% tech research without losing money. Also fairly early in the game) This was one of the features that I appreciated most about Civ 4, that early spread = stagnation. In this mod, the only major curb on expansion seemed to be the high settler cost.


Overall its a pretty good mod. It doesn't throw the kitchen sink at the game, which I IMMENSELY appreciate. Alot of the criticism could be safely categorized under 'things I'm not used to or 'do or don't' prefer. So far its my favorite of the BtS mods that I've tried. (sick of playing the stagnantly slow Warlords just because it has my favorite mods) I'll give a few other mods a test run, but this might be my preferred time killer for the moment.

One thing I think has alot of promise is the 'historical events based off of empire makeup (civics/traits and such I assume) thing. I didn't run into alot of them, but its a great idea. And I hope you guys add more events in future versions. I'd love to run into an EUII style, very event heavy BtS mod.
 
@EnlightenmentHK

I am glad you liked HitM. It is really an excellent and well balanced mod. I just want to mention that if it is not obvious enough HitM is all hand crafted by one single modder i.e. Grave. Many components were created by others. some components were created for vanilla and warlords and were updated for bts by him. The balance, the selection of buildings, units and their prereqs are all his indisputable property.

If you are up for trying other mods for BTS, allow me to recommend Rise of Mankind. Along with HitM they are my most favorite mods for BTS.

BTW, I am also a TR fan and I do fire warlords only to play it sometimes.
 
BTW, I am also a TR fan and I do fire warlords only to play it sometimes.

Rise of Mankind is another one i recently downloaded, a bit of overkill on the civics and not enough on the traits. Although I admittedly haven't given it a full run yet. Once they told me that I couldn't build another wonder in my capitol, I got a bit pissed. :) Once I remove that annoying drawback I'll probably try it again.

But TR has become my 'ideal' mod. Played it more than all the vanillas, expansions, and other mods combined. And I've probably played it out. (I know where every goodie hut in Europe, Asia, and Africa is by memory) But I fear the latest version may have added too much stuff in the form of redundant buildings, the late game AI is unchallenging, and Warlords plays mercilessly slow with a big mod.

That said, I still find myself missing that third 'trait', the much loved military doctrines, their civics...and I keep wondering why the peasants aren't starting an uprising whenever I switch to slavery or why my population is never being 'plagued down' in the other mods. :) (initially annoying things that I've grown more than used to)

I might look into that modular 'World of Civilization' thing as a means of picking and choosing my favorite elements of various mods. Certainly TR's HUGE variety of military units and military doctrines gets in there. HitM's wonders (to some extent) and traits. Maybe a slightly toned down version of the variety of civics in RoM.


A suggestion: The real world/ancient civilizations map is fun, but I hate the fact that you can't play some of the more modern civ's with that 'historically accurate placement'. Any chance of updating that scenario to include a few more modern options?
 
You will find that the AI does quite well in HitM. Try the Odyssey speed and you will be amazed by the number of units the AI builds and how early it would go to war. Traits are shuffled in an interesting way. Financial and Industrious actually work as they do in TR. Other traits exchanged their bonus so you will find playing the usual leaders unusual. Additional units are not many but they fit quite well and fill the gaps left by vanilla BTS.

Combined modcomps are just perfect. Dales Combat mod improves over Dale's bombardment component (btw I can't understand why TR doesn't use it - just makes Realism not quite Total). You can try it in full if you enabled the different parts in the AltGlobalDefines.xml.
 
I suppose this mod doesn't like Windows Vista. After taking a long time to initialize, the game crashes when my settler tries to build a new city. :(
I did encounter a similar problem when I tried the mod for the first time.

A day later, when I had started my computer and run the mod then, everything was - and still is - fine. Your problem may have been due to something which you have run before or simultaneously.

(Vista Ultimate, 32-bit version)

This morning Windows Vista SP 1 was installed on my PC (I'm running Vista Home Premium, 32-bit version) using Microsoft's Automatic Update. I tried running the History in the Making mod and got the same result. I shut down my computer to clear everything in memory, waited 30 seconds, and booted it up again. Once again I tried running the mod and once again when my settler tried to found my first city the game crashed.

Here are the "Problem Details" Windows provided me:
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: Civ4BeyondSword.exe
Application Version: 3.0.0.1
Application Timestamp: 46f40a72
Fault Module Name: CvGameCoreDLL.dll
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 47a490b5
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00121ec0
OS Version: 6.0.6001.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 3164
Additional Information 2: f31c530d3d12785f4cca5eb2cbce0d8e
Additional Information 3: a347
Additional Information 4: 03930d71e5db62d382c397ff250b1a9a

I was running no other applications. Civ 4 runs perfectly at all other times, whether it's vanilla Civ 4, Warlords, or Beyond the Sword.

Am I the only one having this problem? :dunno:
 
Hmmm...one problem fixed. Now that I am playing on Odyssey, the techs are no longer disproportionately quicker than the buildings/improvements. I can see only a few turns in that the game wasn't really meant to be played on Marathon.
 
TOO ALL VISTA USERS - who have problems with mod!!!

Run the game with Win XP SP1 compabality mode. It really helped me. I had game crash while loading saved game. Right now everything works fine!!!
 
Hi all,

First of all - thanks to Grave for a great Mod Pack. I haven't found a good Mod Pack since Sevomod, so it was great to see that HiTM contains all the features I like. However, there are of course a few of the changes and additions I'm not too excited about, but it's a lot less than what I've seen in other current Mod Packs.

The two issues on the top of my list are as follows:

1) Cuirasser: it made sense to include a cavalry unit to fill the gap between Knights and Cavalry, but I think Firaxis forgot to include a counter unit. The Cuirasser is available too early, which results in the AI creating huge stacks with Cuirassers and Trebuchets only. In HiTM this is even worse since the Cannon has been moved from Steel to Gunpowder, so the AI stacks are now Cuirassers and Cannons only. An early gunpowder siege unit could be a "Bombard" instead, since the Cannon is a 19th century unit, so it's too strong and too early with Gunpowder (there are about 300 years between the two).

2) Grenadier: this is not specific to HiTM, but it would have been nice to see it fixed. A Grenadier is historically insignificant, but I agree that it should be in to maintain the rock-scissors-paper balance. However, the Grenadier should absolutely not be available earlier than the Rifleman, since the Grenadier was invented as a counter to tight formations in the age of mass armies. I normally change the requirement to Military Science AND Rifling, as well as reduce it to 25% vs. Riflemen and give it 25% city attack/defense.

Besides these then i'm not a great fan of the stable building, since I assume that this makes the AI so darn happy about cavalry.

As a result, I made a bunch of changes to vanilla BTS and I was pleased to notice, that it actually made the AI create balanced stacks, which were a real good challenge.

I'm about to implement these changes in HiTM, but thought it might be an idea to list them here as a suggestion first - in the hope that the general idea and perhaps some of the changes are agreeable.

Here we go:

Unit Changes

Ancient:
-new unit: Light Spearman (Str 3, 50% vs. mounted, 25% vs. melee, 35 hammers, Hunting)
-remove siege tower or nerf it

Middle-ages:
- change Pikeman to Heavy Sperman (same stats except reduce to 75% vs. mounted)

The age of gunpowder:
- new unit: Pikeman (Str 8, 50% vs. mounted, 50% vs. melee, 130 hammers, Firearms or Military Science?)
- change Musketman to Str 10
- move cannon to Rifling
- new unit: Bombard (Str 8, 50% city attack, 130 hammers, Gunpowder) - 25% chance that it self-destructs :)
- (not sure if a late swordsman e.g. Zwei-hander/Sword n' Buckler type is needed/nice)

The age of mass armies:
- change Grenadier (requires Military Science AND Rifling, 25% vs. Rifleman, 25% city strenght)
- change cavalry to Str 14

The Modern Age:
tbc.

General changes to cavalry:
- all cavalry receive -25% city strenght
- all cavalry receive Flanking Strike against Catapult/Trebuchet (except Horse Archer)
- Cuirasser and Cavalry receive Flanking Strike against Bombard and Cannon
- all cavalry receive 25% attack AND defense vs. siege units from same age and below (except Horse Archer)

Building Changes

Overview of military buildings:
1)Training Ground
2a) Barracks
2b) Stable
3) Gunsmith
4a) Military Industrial Complex
5a) Advanced Infantry Training
5b) Advanced Armour Training
2c) Shipyard
4b) Drydock
5c) Naval Academy
5d) Airforce Academy

Details of changes and additions:
1)Training Ground replaces Barracks (same tech, 2 XPs, 45 hammers, obsolete with rifling)
2a) Barracks (metal casting, 3 XPs for archery, melee and gunpowder, 90 hammers, obsolete with rifling)
3) Gunsmith (gunpowder, 2 XP's gunpowder, 120 hammers, obsolete with rifling)

4a) Military Industrial Complex (rifling, 5 XP's for land and air, 180 hammers)

2b) Stable (same tech, 3 XPs for mounted, obsolete with rifling)

5a) Advanced Infantry Training (Industrialism, 2 XPs for gunpowder)
5b) Advanced Armour Training (Industrialism, 2 XPs for armoured)
5c) Airforce Academy (Flight, 2 XPs for air and heli)
5d) Naval Academy (Radio, 2 XPs for naval)

Many thanks - sorry about the long post

Best regards,
KPII
 
Pikeman were non-gunpowder units. It makes no sense having Firearms as a prerequisite for them.
 
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