[Beyond the Sword] History In The Making

[Grave]

C:\Documents and Settings\Hancocks\My Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\MODS

Could this have anything to do with me already having BUG? Could this be causing problems since BUG is already in HitM?

Ah, I figured as much.


Did you download HiTM and not read Post #2 and/or the HiTM Readme? Did you skip over the disclaimers when scrolling through the install process? The answer you seek is in one of those locations... and that is all I will say.

 

[Grave]

Ah, I may be on to a lead involving the mysterious Vista crashes...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7224978&postcount=475

Seems like it is OS related!!!!

 

[Cross Cowboy]

Wow Thank God Grave, ive spent almost 4 hours now trying to get a dll tht would compile, finally did and bam...no good. Then I went to Total war, downloaded his Vista patch and checked out his Dll and it was different. Figured Id put that in and bam crash. Then I saw he had it in his assets folder, so I went there and put it in, and cant even load Hitm haha. I did notice even with the new dll i made, I did get a bit further, but still crashed around 1500-100 bc...Im glad to see others now noticing this problem and a possible solution.

My question is, why then are these cropping up like mad now and not at 3.0? We had some Vista users crashing, but others still went on to be able to play(like myself).

Edit:Also if you get something figured out and need it tested let me know! I work nights so I have lots of time to try it out! Thats why I need Civ and espeically HiTM!!

 

[Grave]

Get Windows XP and all your issues will be solved!

 

[Zack]

Ah, I figured as much.


Did you download HiTM and not read Post #2 and/or the HiTM Readme? Did you skip over the disclaimers when scrolling through the install process? The answer you seek is in one of those locations... and that is all I will say.

Ah, I read it wrong. I am so embarassed. Look forward to playing! Sorry for wasting your time, Grave.

 

[Grave]

Ah, I read it wrong. I am so embarassed. Look forward to playing! Sorry for wasting your time, Grave.

It's all good...

 

[Cross Cowboy]

What I can say is that Python will not cause a CTD. You can write Python code that will call one of the API functions which call into the SDK (C++), and that can cause a CTD. So you can write Python code that will cause a CTD, but it won't be the Python that actually CTDs.

For example, a car can crash. If the driver is impaired or can't drive well, they may crash the car. However, the person doesn't crash--the car does. The person is just the cause of it. Does that make sense?

If HiTM uses a custom DLL, create a debug version with assertions turned on in it. This should then tell you what is the ultimate source of the crash. Usually it's an array bounds violation. For example, giving a player tech # -1 or checking if a city has the NO_RELIGION (-1) religion.

I understand to a point what he is saying, but not at all sure on what he wants me to do. Do you know how to turn on the assertions? If so I could try running it.

 

[Grave]

I understand to a point what he is saying, but not at all sure on what he wants me to do. Do you know how to turn on the assertions? If so I could try running it.

Sort of. The same thing was mentioned in a topic I created over in the SDK/Python sub-forum:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7963257#post7963257


I never created a debug DLL before, so maybe that's what I need to do...

 

[Cross Cowboy]

I saw your post there and have been waiting for someone to respond to it...darn it..dont they know we are waiting lol

 

[Dimoncheg]

I think that CTDs in not only Vista problem, because I get them on XP too. And I do not like XP now because it less stable than Vista 64. I suppose even turn time in Civ is longer in XP and when the game crashes, in Vista it looks like exactly "Crash To Desktop", in XP looks like hanging and I need to reboot. Previous versions of HitM was unstable in XP, especially when a lot of time was played, but in Vista ver.2.01 was absolutely stable (without espionage and nukes)

 

[Grave]

I think that CTDs in not only Vista problem, because I get them on XP too. And I do not like XP now because it less stable than Vista 64. I suppose even turn time in Civ is longer in XP and when the game crashes, in Vista it looks like exactly "Crash To Desktop", in XP looks like hanging and I need to reboot. Previous versions of HitM was unstable in XP, especially when a lot of time was played, but in Vista ver.2.01 was absolutely stable (without espionage and nukes)

I think your issues have to do with having a non-english version of your OS or of Civ4. Non-English speaking gamers have always had problems with HiTM, because I tailor it to English language only and not French, Spanish, Russian, etc.

So that will always cause problems.

 

[Dimoncheg]

I think your issues have to do with having a non-english version of your OS or of Civ4. Non-English speaking gamers have always had problems with HiTM, because I tailor it to English language only and not French, Spanish, Russian, etc.

So that will always cause problems.

It's easy to blame localized version of OS in all problems, but why other guys, including English-speaking, have the same CTDs? And why Wolfshanze works perfectly for me? And, by the way, I have English version of Civ.

 

[Grave]

It's easy to blame localized version of OS in all problems, but why other guys, including English-speaking, have the same CTDs? And why Wolfshanze works perfectly for me? And, by the way, I have English version of Civ.

In your case... I do not know. If you have XP like you claim, and it's still crashing for you, yet I can play an entire game all the way through with no crashes... then maybe it's something in the hardware? Maybe drivers? Maybe something in the Russian version of XP? Maybe the way you installed HiTM?

I don't think we'll ever know the answer... but what I can say is that typically, American users of Windows XP (like myself) rarely, if ever, experience constant CTDs that would prevent us from enjoying the game.

Beyond that... I really have no other input.

 

[Brave Jay]

So.................... any break-throughs for vista users yet?

 

[Grave]

So.................... any break-throughs for vista users yet?

Yeah... go get XP instead.


Seriously though... it's going to be a while until this Vista issue gets fixed. At least 6 weeks. And even then... I'm not sure I can fix it, because I'm not that skilled in C++ to drastically fix code in order to make it bug free.

Not only that, but since I don't have Vista... it's hard for me to make fixes for an OS I don't even own (or plan on getting anytime soon).

It would be nice if a fan of HiTM who is well versed in C++ could lend me a hand, that would help immensely.



So, I'm afraid right now I'm at my limits as far as fixing HiTM for Vista users. If this mod has to be strictly XP only... so be it.

 

[Cross Cowboy]

Wish I could help Grave...I could go look for a C++ for dummies maybe and try to help, but I havnt programmed in years, and it has changed I bet!

 

[Grave]

Wish I could help Grave...I could go look for a C++ for dummies maybe and try to help, but I havnt programmed in years, and it has changed I bet!

Haha... I have that exact same book. But at least you have somewhat of a background in programming. That definately is a good foundation to build off of.

Just for giggles... here is a game I've been playing. Somebody was asking for one, just to see if any CTDs for Vista occur.

 

[Cross Cowboy]

Well my background was in high school...I took BASIC and Pascal back in 1989...Im not sure how similiar any of that is...but ill go find the book and start reading! Also trying out your save game!

Edit-wow crashed out the first turn! I wonder if thats because its a XP save...

 

[Cross Cowboy]

Got this link to an interesting discussion on Vista and why it crashes. ABout 6 down Kael has this to say:

Windows Vista crashes whenever an application performs an illegal activity. Windows XP tends to go along doing its own happy business.

For example I had some code in FfH that might delete improvements, and some other code that checked improvement to see if certain things should be done. The pseudo-code looks like this:

1. Does this plot have an improvement?
2. If yes then:
2a. check to see if this improvement should be deleted.
2b. check to see if this improvement should spread to surrounding tiles.

If the improvement was deleted in step 2a then the check to see if the improvement should spread in 2b would be against an object that didnt exist (ie: to check the spread chance on the improvement).

Windows XP didn't care and just accepted the failure to check the spread chance. Windows Vista crashed to the desktop.

You can call it whatever you want. You can say that Vista is more picky than XP or that XP is more tolerant of bad code. Either way the cause of crash is really the modders, its just Vista doesnt let us get away with much.

Sigh...seems like any code then for Vista users that isnt perfect means CTD. This really bites for us Vista users, because it means playing mods can be a very tough time. When Grave said to switch to XP...that really is a good idea. Sadly, I have no clue how you could do that, but I wish I could.

Not sure whatmore can be done Grave, I certainly dont expect you to go thru all the code looking for problems in there, just because Vista is goofy...supposedly with Win 7, this may not happen, as the OS isnt expecting perfection!


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7894024

 

[bolesting]

To me v3.00 and 3.01 worked perfect, I have only one time problem with one save file but I loaded few turns before that and just like nothing happened Do I need with v3.02 to start again from beginning?!