[Beyond the Sword] History In The Making

[Hyronymus]

Does Theocracy already cause unhapiness? You can think along the line of suppressing revolutionairy research like you did but then show that as causing unhappiness. And how about not being able to assign scientists as specialist in a city? Is that possible?

Found a nice resource to dive into: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy. It gives a little background info about what it is and what it isn't.

 

[Grave]

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I'm experimenting with Theocracy being -10% in all cities, to represent lack of freedom of ideas and "religious" zealotery and persecution...(Gallileo anyone?)...it isn't huge but might help dissuade permanent Theocracies all round.

I'm not sure that's fair Drew. Theocratic governments picked fights with philosophers who challenged the view of the world but nonetheless people like Descartes and Gallileo did their research. Also, monasteries were a fountain of knowledge.

Does Theocracy already cause unhapiness? You can think along the line of suppressing revolutionairy research like you did but then show that as causing unhappiness. And how about not being able to assign scientists as specialist in a city? Is that possible?

I don't like the Science hit, either. I could maybe see a penalty to Great Person development. But, I have found a very reasonable penalty for Theocracy. It involves unhappiness per non-State Religion, which I have spent quite a bit of time last night play testing. I will include it in patch v3.19b.

Speaking of v3.19b, I may release it here soon, considering I have enough small bugfixes to warrant a patch release. If anybody has any other small, minor bugfixes, let me know soon!

(small bugfixes only. No major mod updates or additions!)

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Grave:-There's a bug with the inquisitor mod, I forgot to mention. This actually happened in a game:- My friendly neighbour with whom I had open borders was in Theoc, and was building Inquisitor units. We were both Jew State Religion (my Holy City), plus I had Islam spread in every single city of mine(Holy City for that too). It was lateish game, and suddenly I noticed one of my cities turn unhappy.

What had happened, was my neighbour had removed Islam from MY city, which not only removed the religion, but also instantly destroyed the Islamic Temple. Monk Shop and Mosque I had built there, sending the city into unhappiness. Surely this is an oversight for that mod component. Inquisitors should only be able remove non state religions, from their own nation. Otherwise it's hideously overpowered. For the price of that one cheap unit (The Inquisitor), I had to build an Islamic Missionary x2 (The 1st failed), Then a Islamic Temple, then a hugely expensive Mosque. Not to mention the 4 per turn from the Islamic Monastery (over 1000yrs old), which was irreplacable since I was past Sci Method

Needs looking at...

 

[Grave]

Grave:-There's a bug with the inquisitor mod, I forgot to mention. This actually happened in a game:- My friendly neighbour with whom I had open borders was in Theoc, and was building Inquisitor units. We were both Jew State Religion (my Holy City), plus I had Islam spread in every single city of mine(Holy City for that too). It was lateish game, and suddenly I noticed one of my cities turn unhappy.

What had happened, was my neighbour had removed Islam from MY city, which not only removed the religion, but also instantly destroyed the Islamic Temple. Monk Shop and Mosque I had built there, sending the city into unhappiness. Surely this is an oversight for that mod component. Inquisitors should only be able remove non state religions, from their own nation. Otherwise it's hideously overpowered. For the price of that one cheap unit (The Inquisitor), I had to build an Islamic Missionary x2 (The 1st failed), Then a Islamic Temple, then a hugely expensive Mosque. Not to mention the 4 per turn from the Islamic Monastery (over 1000yrs old), which was irreplacable since I was past Sci Method

Needs looking at...

That's not a bug, it's all set in the Inquisition Mod configuration. See Inquisition Config.ini to make adjustment to the way Inquisitiors function:

# Inquisition Mod
# Inquisition Config.ini
#
# History in the Making

[Inquisition Mod]

# ; Change the value to false if the religion of the inquisitor should not be 
# ; required to be present at the city where an inquisition should be started.
# ; Default value is True
Require State Religion For Religion Removal = False

# ; Change the value to false if the state religion of the owner of the target 
# ; city should not match the state religion of the owner of the inquisitor unit 
# ; to start an inquisition at the target city.
# ; Default value is True
Require City Owner State Religion Match For Religion Removal = False

# ; Change the value to false if inquisitors should be able to remove religions
# ; from any city they can enter.
# ; Default value is True
Require Open Borders For Religion Removal = False

 

[Jabrowny]

I have Civlization IV complete on vista, and when I try to load the mod it crashes.

 

[Rusty Edge]

For what it's worth, I'm playing CIV Complete on XP. While the first 3.19 crashed on load, this version works beautifully for me so far, although I haven't played into the late game yet.

 

[Hyronymus]

I have Civlization IV complete on vista, and when I try to load the mod it crashes.

Are you all patched up?

 

[Jabrowny]

Hm, thats weird.. I download the patch, but I can't figure out how to install it :/

 

[DrewBledsoe]

That's not a bug, it's all set in the Inquisition Mod configuration. See Inquisition Config.ini to make adjustment to the way Inquisitiors function:

# Inquisition Mod
# Inquisition Config.ini
#
# History in the Making

[Inquisition Mod]

# ; Change the value to false if the religion of the inquisitor should not be 
# ; required to be present at the city where an inquisition should be started.
# ; Default value is True
Require State Religion For Religion Removal = False

# ; Change the value to false if the state religion of the owner of the target 
# ; city should not match the state religion of the owner of the inquisitor unit 
# ; to start an inquisition at the target city.
# ; Default value is True
Require City Owner State Religion Match For Religion Removal = False

# ; Change the value to false if inquisitors should be able to remove religions
# ; from any city they can enter.
# ; Default value is True
Require Open Borders For Religion Removal = False

Oops , thanks...too many late nights is what I'm blaming

 

[LetMyPeopleGo]

Hello Grave,

It's nice to see a live and dynamic mod,

Personally I don't think messing with civics to much is a good thing, the civics are quite balanced, civics are alwayes used as a combo, one doesn't aim for a specific civic by it's own but only for a short period.

Theocracy already has a penalty, to not be able to spread other religions other then your state religion is a hit for one aiming to improve happiness and culture. but you get better trained units.

Adding on top of it another penalty for other religiones, you get excactlly what DrewBledsoe was complaining about to begin with just from the opposite side, now you enter an intensive not to use Theocracy instead of why yes to use a different civic, if needed at all, I don't see the AI using Theocracy so much even with aggressive AI.

Fixing an AI behaviour should be done by fixing or altering the mods controling his behaviour and not by applying obstacles so the AI will go the way you wany it to go.

It's like buildind a robot for search and locate objects and if the AI programing fails let's build some walls so he will go the way we want. Of course I exaggerated a bit just to make a point that civics are kind of Core elemnts in a game and shouldn't be changed easily.

I've seen many mods that kept on changing civics just to fix unbalancig issues caused by former civic changes. The civics of HITM are very balnced compared with other mods, and if the AI chooses Theocracy it's from all the right reasones, building a strong army and preventing me from spreading my religion.

I always choose aggressive AI at the game's options screen and even then I don't always find the AI choosing Theocracy and I get a good fight from the AI scientifically and military wise. Whilst with many other mods I cruised through the game with ease.

Bottom line, leave the game balanced, history and AI behaviour shouldn't change basic core game elements, change the AI if you wish but don't throw in some road blocks to prevent it from a certain way.

At the end it's always about good playability.

 

[Jabrowny]

It works now, but this message keeps appearing:

Bug Options - Failed writing INI file 'mods\HISTORY IN THE MAKING\Bug mod\Bug main interface.ini'

It's really annoying..

 

[Hyronymus]

Is there a file with that name in 'mods\HISTORY IN THE MAKING\Bug mod\Bug main interface.ini'.

 

[MasterTonberry]

Not sure if this has come up again for anyone or if it was supposed to be fixed, but I have found a couple of those 'phantom blockade' sections on my current game.

I'm running HitM 3.19a/PLANETARY/ODDYSEE

After scouting about with one of my first few Galleys I saw a section of 5 or 6 tiles blockaded near an enemy city, but there was no ship around to do so. After moving through it, the blockaded tiles actually followed my own ship for a few turns, as if they had 'attached' themselves to my Galley

I'm sure i'll see something like this again so I'll make a save and a few screenshots.

 

[riddleofsteel]

I installed this mod this very evening and I'm loving it so far. I have two questions. After playing mods like Varietas Delectat and Diversica I am completely ruined for ethnic and more diverse unit textures. Is there any plan at all to incorporate more unique or ethnically accurate unit art in this fine mod? I realize that the scope and workload of this mod must already be enough to deal with, but for some reason I find that the same vanilla unit skins like for archers and axemen being used for multiple empires slightly boring. But honestly, that's my only very minor complaint against this great download.

Last question, did barbarians get a leg up in this mod? I am getting poorly defended and undefended cities (shame on me, I know) captured by barbarian axemen and chariots way before the AD era. Was this intentional or did I choose some mondo difficult setting? Thanks again, really enjoying your fine work.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

I don't like the Science hit, either. I could maybe see a penalty to Great Person development. But, I have found a very reasonable penalty for Theocracy. It involves unhappiness per non-State Religion, which I have spent quite a bit of time last night play testing. I will include it in patch v3.19b.

Speaking of v3.19b, I may release it here soon, considering I have enough small bugfixes to warrant a patch release. If anybody has any other small, minor bugfixes, let me know soon!

(small bugfixes only. No major mod updates or additions!)

I think that was what I was trying to come up with Excellent idea, sums up religious persecution perfectly (eg. Being Jewish in a Christian Theocracy-Middle ages Europe- loads more examples from history)...

 

[killmeplease]

on theocracy...
i'd like a science penalty best.
and GP penalty for the police state

also i think theocracy must not to give +2xp but more free military units as it would be more realistic i think! (i like the way how it was presented in civ2 with fundamentalism and in civ3 in RAR mod - maybe introduce fanatics/crusaders units as well? i.e. crusaders for christian theocracy, mujahids for islam)


PS: great mod indeed played it last weekend.
quite unballanced tough

 

[riddleofsteel]

What part of this mod makes some combat squads have more units in it and the unit sizes smaller than vanilla? I really enjoy that part.

 

[XxwarlordxX]

hi my game crashes it starts up and im playing the game and it crashes no reason i have
bts 3.19 on a 64 bit vista with service pack 2
i posted my closest save its only a few turns after that and it crashes

 

[LetMyPeopleGo]

hi All,
For some reason I don't have any upgrade for the Horse archer, I have gunpowder units, Cavalry and Horse archer ready to build in the city view.

Any idea what to do ?

 

[Arian]

hi All,
For some reason I don't have any upgrade for the Horse archer, I have gunpowder units, Cavalry and Horse archer ready to build in the city view.

Any idea what to do ?

The Horse Archer doesn't have an upgrade. Grave will surely fix it in the next patch.
Here a unofficial fix:

In Civ4UnitInfos.xml search for the Horse Archer entry:

<Class>UNITCLASS_HORSE_ARCHER</Class>

Then look for this:

<UnitClassUpgrades/>

Replace it by this:

			<UnitClassUpgrades>
				<UnitClassUpgrade>
					<UnitClassUpgradeType>UNITCLASS_CUIRASSIER</UnitClassUpgradeType>
					<bUnitClassUpgrade>1</bUnitClassUpgrade>
				</UnitClassUpgrade>
			</UnitClassUpgrades>

Reload HitM and you can upgrade your Horse Archers to Cuirassiers.

WARNING: this fix is very likely NOT compatible with previous saves!