Biblical history ancestors

[Ouchgeddon]

I've "known" this for a while from various sources, and recently an article by a Muslim scholar confirmed the idea. The article stated that Mohamad's ancestry can be traced back to the noble house of Ismail, one of the sons of Abraham. That would be Ishmael to us western-thinking folk.

Now according to the Bible, Abraham was really old and so was his wife Sarai, so they didn't expect any children by their own. So Sarai got Abraham to sleep with Hagar, their maid, who bore him a son, Ishmael. Hagar despised Sarai when it was found she was with child, so Sarai kicked her out. But an angel came and told her to go back, with this prophecy:

Genesis 17:12 - He shall be a wild man; His hand shall be against every man, And every man's hand against him. And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Later Abraham and Sarai had Isaac, who is the progenitor of all of Israel. Which means that we today have a tale of two half brothers, several thousand years removed, who are busy beating each other silly over Dear Old Dad's real estate. Religion, righteousness and politics aside, does it all boil down to this genetic factor? Hundreds of generations of rivalry ingrained into the genetic code...

 

[CurtSibling]

I think it is nuts that anyone in this day and age cares what that dusty relic of a book has to say.

I mean why the hell are we listening to words written by a gang of savages?

It is about as relevant to modern man as the chariot...

 

[philippe]

hmmm i dont believe in it so but curtsibling,please have respect for the poeple who believe in it.luckely curt,you dont live in the middleages or else you would be killed for it.
now not anymore.its a sign of "respect"from the church to poeple who dont believe. now threat them with respect

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by philippe
hmmm i dont believe in it so but curtsibling,please have respect for the poeple who believe in it.luckely curt,you dont live in the middleages or else you would be killed for it.

now threat them with respect

I am threating them with respect!

If I lived in the middle ages flipflop, I would be a mighty Khan of the Golden horde!
I would invade europe for the express purpose of sacking Belgium!

 

[philippe]

you wouldnt survive a day

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by philippe
you wouldnt survive a day

Balldung!

I would be able to wrap the mindless peasants around my charismatic finger, laddie!

You would be killed for being mad.

Why don't you go build a time machine and go back to plauge-filled medieval times, so you can kiss holy jackboot!

 

[philippe]

please curty this was meant to be a "seriuos "thread
ever heard of seriuos?
please ddont let this be another stupid thread

 

[Greadius]

A good old family feud, 'eh?
As Curt and Philippe have been kind enough to point out, people will fight over anything. I don't really think it adds any insight into the current situation, which is 90% political smothered in 10% religion to use as a motivating factor to convince poor kids to kill themselves.

 

[CurtSibling]

I have heard of 'serious'

And I am being real,
I would be able to influence the thicko people of that era...

Just imagine wearing white and saying you are a diety!
It would be be 'The man who would be king' all over again...

 

[CurtSibling]

Family fueds have caused much pain in history...
In WW1 the English King's direct cousin was none other than Kaiser Vilhem II - Germany's leader!

 

[roadwarrior]

And Nicholas II of Russia, can't forget him. It was all one big happy family

 

[Switch625]

Originally posted by CurtSibling
I have heard of 'serious'

And I am being real,
I would be able to influence the thicko people of that era...

Just imagine wearing white and saying you are a diety!
It would be be 'The man who would be king' all over again...

You're being real bitter, that's what you're being. You obviously have some very serious issues with Christianity, and are taking them out on anyone and everyone who is Christian, or even sticks up for Christians. It makes me wonder what happened in your life to give you such rage toward Christianity that you are constantly lashing out.

 

[Immortal]

Curt, you accuse the church of narrow minded beliefs, then call the christian bible "an old relic"? A lot of people find great strength in that "useless" book (not myself though).

I don't agree with your renouncing of anything christian (being brought up Roman Catholic in an italian home will do that to you), but I won't call you an idiot or a savage for it. Its your beliefs, your entitled to 'em why don't you have some damn respect for other peoples beliefs too?

 

[Adebisi]

Originally posted by Ouchgeddon
Religion, righteousness and politics aside, does it all boil down to this genetic factor? Hundreds of generations of rivalry ingrained into the genetic code...

No, it would be completly insane to think so.

We inherit 24 cromosomes. 12 from our grandparents, 6 from our great grandparents and so on. The chance of having inherited any gene from Abraham is close to zero.

 

[napoleon526]

Religion, righteousness and politics aside, does it all boil down to this genetic factor? Hundreds of generations of rivalry ingrained into the genetic code...

I think that there is a a very, very small chance that all Jews, Christians, and Muslims are related to a single man. But the idea that Abraham is the 'father' of monotheism comes more from the fact that J, C, & M all consider him to be the original founder of their religion, not the actual ancestor.

 

[Citizen_K]

Originally posted by napoleon526

I think that there is a a very, very small chance that all Jews, Christians, and Muslims are related to a single man. But the idea that Abraham is the 'father' of monotheism comes more from the fact that J, C, & M all consider him to be the original founder of their religion, not the actual ancestor.

Um, no.

Christianity, if you recall, is mainly a religion of the "gentiles," excluding Messianic Jews and the Apostles. As such you can't say that they claim to be related to Abraham. If so, than logically they would either be 1)Jews or 2)Arabs, not formally pagan Europeans. How can this make sense ? Besides, Christianity is not made up of mostly one ethnic population. You just made a pretty ignorant statement there, buddy .

And why would Abraham be the central figure of Christianity? THE NAME OF THE GUY IN "CHRISTIANITY" IS "CHRIST" FOR HONKIN' GOODNESS SAKE! So that would leave the Arabs and Jews claiming to be related to Abraham, and not all Arabs and Jews are of the Middle Eastern ethnic origin. (what am I saying: "arab" and "jew" are ethnically quallifying statements already)

Before you use Christian as an ethnic term, don't. And I would also consider Abraham to be the progenitor of the Arabs and Jews, not the "founder of their religions." I think they do too.

P.S.: It probably wasn't clear in my post, but I also indicated that some Muslims and Jews are converted instead of ethnically related. Yeah.

 

[napoleon526]

Originally posted by Citizen_K


Um, no.

Christianity, if you recall, is mainly a religion of the "gentiles," excluding Messianic Jews and the Apostles. As such you can't say that they claim to be related to Abraham. If so, than logically they would either be 1)Jews or 2)Arabs, not formally pagan Europeans. How can this make sense ? Besides, Christianity is not made up of mostly one ethnic population. You just made a pretty ignorant statement there, buddy .

And why would Abraham be the central figure of Christianity? THE NAME OF THE GUY IN "CHRISTIANITY" IS "CHRIST" FOR HONKIN' GOODNESS SAKE! So that would leave the Arabs and Jews claiming to be related to Abraham, and not all Arabs and Jews are of the Middle Eastern ethnic origin. (what am I saying: "arab" and "jew" are ethnically quallifying statements already)

Before you use Christian as an ethnic term, don't. And I would also consider Abraham to be the progenitor of the Arabs and Jews, not the "founder of their religions." I think they do too.

P.S.: It probably wasn't clear in my post, but I also indicated that some Muslims and Jews are converted instead of ethnically related. Yeah.

Hey, smart guy, I said that we were not related to Abraham. And I didn't use Christian as an ethnic term. I said that all three monotheistic religions trace their roots back to Abraham.

Abraham is considered the patriarch of Judaism, and both Christianity and Islam are offshoots of that faith. Jesus was born and raised a Jew. The distiction between Jew and Christian came many years after Jesus's death, with the split between Jesus' brother and Peter. And Muhammed's goal was to introduce a more modern monotheistic religion to the arabs. He felt that his people needed to adopt a more sophistocated religion in order to maintain their traditions. He even had his followers pray towards Jerusalem originally, rather than Mecca, as is the case today. Muhammed went to see the Jewish elders in Jerusalem, but he was not accepted as a true prophet. After that, Islam became it's own religion, separate from Chrisitanity and Judaism. But the point is that all three of these religions trace their beginnings back to Abraham. That doesn't mean that every Jew, Muslim, and Christian is a descendent of him.

Don't mess with me on matters of theology: you'll get f**ked.

 

[floppa21]

Hey smart guy, you just made a pretty ignorant statement there buddy... Kiss holy jackboot, you thicko balldung!

DISCLAIMER: This is directed toward Becka.

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by floppa21
Hey smart guy, you just made a pretty ignorant statement there buddy... Kiss holy jackboot, you thicko balldung!

DISCLAIMER: This is directed toward Becka.

Whaaattttt???

 

[napoleon526]

Huh???