"Bitter France"

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Events 1000 to 3000 years ago? You mean like the ones in the bible?

I think this was a blast at Christianity, but it was a piss-poor one, because Christians aren't comparing the events of today to events two thousand years ago and drawing conclusions about it, as was the claim in the post that you responded to.

 

[Katheryn]

The point is, that if you shed light on what is going on, instead of sweeping it under the carpet... then individuals can be held to account for it.

If, however, you do sweep it under the carpet, hide it, ignore it, pretend it is not going on, and just sleep walk through all this unacceptable behavior, then it will get worse. It will spin out of control until a war comes on our own soil.

It is like just ignoring kids who are running wild all around you... either you will be the voice of authority and say, "Enough!" and demand the kids will settle down and play nice or they will all end up going home to their own parents to deal with. There has to be a limit, where is it?

 

[CaptainF]

The point is, that if you shed light on what is going on, instead of sweeping it under the carpet... then individuals can be held to account for it.

If, however, you do sweep it under the carpet, hide it, ignore it, pretend it is not going on, and just sleep walk through all this unacceptable behavior, then it will get worse. It will spin out of control until a war comes on our own soil.

It is like just ignoring kids who are running wild all around you... either you will be the voice of authority and say, "Enough!" and demand the kids will settle down and play nice or they will all end up going home to their own parents to deal with. There has to be a limit, where is it?

I do know whats going on. I just:

a)Do not care much, as it hasn't affected me much in my day to day life and
b)Think you are being way to crazy about it all. Like you need to wipe the froth away once in a while.

All these Muslim threads ever do is gather together the people who either fellate their ideology, or who have an aneurysm over it. I mean, I really doubt that a lot of Muslims that I've met really wanna kill me. Or subjugate me. Or whatever the hell is their evil act du jour.

By the way, I like that little spiel about keeping an eye on kids, it really shines light on how you must see them.

 

[sysyphus]

That was a part of the article, which I cut and paste.

Why was it worth pasting if, by your own criteria, it is irrelevant?

 

[sysyphus]

I think this was a blast at Christianity, but it was a piss-poor one, because Christians aren't comparing the events of today to events two thousand years ago and drawing conclusions about it, as was the claim in the post that you responded to.

It wasn't a blast at Christianity at all, it was a blast at someone who claims that events 2000 years ago are irrelevant, despite the fact that she bases her entire life on events that occurred 2000 years ago.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Hogwash. You cannot compare events 1000 and 3000 years ago to what is going on today.

I agree with Katheryn here. We should instead think about Srebreniça (10 years ago), Rwanda were peaceful Christians slaughtered their countryman (10 years ago). Oh and another "civilized" event that happened 60 years ago (60 not 1000 Katheryn) were peacefull Christians sent about 6 millions of theirs God's own people to gas chambers. So yeah no need to go 1000 years back.

 

[Atlas14]

Oh really? And what did they fight for? To lose land? Personal Property? To have their wives enslaved? How singular! And here I thought that they were fighting to defend these things, fighting to stop these people from taking over their lands in Spain, in Syria, in Egypt, in France, in Austria.... Thanks for your wisdom! Now I understand all! They just enjoy fighting!

Your concept of history is extremely lame. You are forgetting the Crusades, the Inquisition, expelling of Muslims from Spain despite being their main economic source , the wonderful Christians who came over to America and had a field day with the Native Americans, the Spaniards who killed Aztec and Incan natives that would not convert to Catholicism or were an impediment to their expansion, the Russian expansion ever since the 16th century. These are all Christians now we are talking about.

If you want to go ahead and turn a blind eye and somehow say it was the Muslims' fault or the Muslims are the only ones instigating the killing, then sure, go ahead, emabarrass yourself.

 

[MamboJoel]

Pathetic how some engage themselves in scientific demonstrations, "historical" enumerations to end up with what conclusion ?
What is your conclusion ?

 

[sysyphus]

Seems to me the conclusion came first, and the research was done after to find information to fit the conclusion.

 

[Verbose]

Wow, ten people. Look at how many are in Johns posts.

Look at how many of theme were not displaying signs in French.

How the Muslim community in various western nations think about themselves and their religion differs.

My bet is that John got hold of pics of Muslims of Pakistani origin in Britain. Attitude surveys indicate that something like 60% consider themselves Muslim first, and not British at all. That's something British society will have to deal with.
The Turks in Germany have a similar negative attitude to German society of which most of them don't feel part.

While in France 6 Muslims out of 7 consider themsleves French first and Islam is just the religion they happened to be born into, and most of them are of North African Arab origin.

And just a small fraction of 1 in 7 is enough to make and carry out death threats. There's no avoiding that.
It's just that France is not a country you should worry about when looking at Islam in Europe.

Things like that makes for somewhat differing and vastly more complex dynamics than simple assertions of something along the line of "Oh My God! The Muslims (whatever the hell is meant exactly) want THIS or THAT!"

 

[Masquerouge]

There isn't more than one person in any of those photos and nothing that says, "Kill all fags", "All fags must be beheaded". "Prepare for your 9/11 fags".

Not. Even. Close.
Worst. Comparison. Ever.

Well to be honest I don't know why you posted pictures of what are obviously not French Muslims in a thread about French Muslims.


The sign reads "no to the war in Iraq, yes to justice in Palestine".


No comment.

 

[aneeshm]

Just deport the people who make such threats, or lock them up for life, or kill them if you have no other option. No other solution exists - these people are mad, they really think that they'll get 72 virgins if they carry out those threats, so concepts of reasonable legal deterrent are useless.

 

[C~G]

Just deport the people who make such threats, or lock them up for life, or kill them if you have no other option. No other solution exists - these people are mad, they really think that they'll get 72 virgins if they carry out those threats, so concepts of reasonable legal deterrent are useless.

IMO these kind of threats are hate speech and it's meant to influence people to use violence against someone.

So I agree, such people should be deported or locked up.

 

[shortguy]

Places like Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary do not remember the Crusades as expansionist Christianity. They remember it as the only times they had any help. These countries absorbed the damage and protected Europe for centuries.

Unless you were Jewish...

I don't think anyone's saying that Muslims didn't have anything to do with the beginning of the Crusades, but the excesses of the Christian forces (like, oh, say, massacring almost the entire population of Jerusalem) speak for themselves.

 

[MobBoss]

I'll base my opinion of a whole religion on the actions of the loudest members too.

ROFL, if you think the numbers of Muslims protesting are comparable to the Fred Phelps crowd perhaps you are in need of some remedial math lessons.

Think about how many muslims protest and then consider how few christians think the way Fred Phelps does.

Its not even comparable.

I will agree with John on this one. Worst. Comparison. Ever.

 

[REDY]

ummm... cruzades were triggered by the islamic invasion of Europe from the late 7th century or early 8th century. I think Katheryn posted the attacks Europe suffered from Islam in those years some weeks ago. (it was her 2nd or 3rd post, if not her first, IIRC)

Theres not point. Point is that jews and christianists hadnt problem in the muslim states and muslims and jews in christian states had. Read something about crusades era.

I am talking about Crusades not because they are show of fanatism. If you know something about history, you may know that they were made mainly because honor and wealth(wealth was and is all), not because belief. Only peasants were fighted because God.

 

[REDY]

Hogwash. You cannot compare events 1000 and 3000 years ago to what is going on today.

I think I may. But OK, time for another examples: And pogroms are most know in christianist´s Europe, arent? In Austria-Hungary was false process with jew 1899 because were written that jews are killing childs for their rituals. Masaryk fighted againist it and was hated by 99 percents of people.

 

[Steph]

What is the point of the thread exactly?
Take a few cases happening during a relatively long time and showing... what? about France?

What is the OP article supposed to demonstrate?

 

[REDY]

I think influence of muslim minority in the Europe

 

[Katheryn]

What is the point of the thread exactly?
Take a few cases happening during a relatively long time and showing... what? about France?

What is the OP article supposed to demonstrate?

The point of the thread is that this Philosophy professor is in a very bad way. Does anyone know his status?

He says he cannot leave the house because of death threats against him.

Surely if you guys are in France, you must know what is going on about this situation.

It is for this reason why I go to these forums that have people from all around the world.

We hear a story like this, and in our circles it is spread about, and we want to know - SINCE YOU ARE THERE - if this is true, what is going on about this guy? What is happening? We want to hear a more localized version of this story!

Here is a section:

His situation didn’t change much after several weeks. Recently he wrote to his friends in Paris:

“I don’t have the right to put my nose outside. And this continues for almost four weeks. The man, who was acknowledged to be the author of threats against me, has been set free, under legal control. And I, his victim, I live under conditions of quasi-detention. I don’t have the right to leave, I am not free to do anything, except sending e-mails and telephoning. I do not even have the right to open the shutters. And one of the culprits is given freedom; he has the rights of which I have been deprived. It’s horrible to live.”


Pierre Rousselin, the editor in chief of Le Figaro, apologized on Al-Jazeera TV for the publication of the article. A number of Islamic countries, including Egypt, banned Le Figaro following the publication of Redeker's piece. Mr Rousselin said the publication of the op-ed was a mistake. He said the article did not express the paper's opinion. The article is no longer available on the Figaro website. But, ever since, it was reprinted, reposted or quoted in many countries, with positive or negative comments. We are posting herewith the full text of Mr. Redeker’s op-ed published in Le Figaro, as a supplement (below this article), for our Readers to make their own judgments on it.

Frenchmen... is this true? What do you know?