Blue Laws

[GhostWriter16]

It should be pointed out that not working on Sunday is a tradition in many Christian cultures but doesn't really have any scriptural justification.

The Law of Moses certainly includes rules forbidding work on the Sabbath, but Sunday is not the Sabbath. (There is nothing that forbids drinking alcohol on the Sabbath. I don't think that buying or selling it is technically forbidden either, although it would generally involve traveling further and carrying more weight than is permitted.) The Sabbath is from sunset on Friday to sunset on Saturday. Such rules are explicitly addressed to the Israelites though. When a gentile is a guest in a Jewish household he is supposed to keep the laws out of respect for his host, but we don't have to all the regulations otherwise. There is nothing in The Seven Noahide Laws about the Sabbath, and when the Apostles met at the Council of Jerusalem to decide what rules should apply to gentile converts to Christianity they did not choose to include anything about observing the Sabbath.

In the early church, many Christians (particularly when most were still Jews) continued to observe the Jewish Sabbath. They would also meet together as a community of believers on Sunday mornings. These early church services had noting to do with the sabbath though. They were not about rest, but about joining together to praise God, to share the Eucharist, and to work to help the poor. Christians typically got up very early on Sundays, so that their meetings could be finished it time for everyone to leave and start their usual work day at the usual time. There was no conception that the whole day should be devoted to church or that it was any excuse not to work.

The first law against working on Sunday ("the venerable day of the sun") was passed by Emperor Constantine. This edict made no mention of Christ or Christianity. Although Constantine had Christian friends and relatives and had already made his soldiers paint the Chi-Rh on their shields, he had not yet converted or been baptized. He was likely still a worshiper of the sun god Sol Invictus at the time. Many Christians liked having more free time on Sunday (church attendance certainly increased once people did not have to wake up so early), but the law may have been meant to honor a pagan god. This piece of Roman Civil Law should not be taken as a tenant of the Christian faith. We should not waste out breath trying defend the notion of "The Christian Sabbath."

I didn't know it started with Constantine but yeah, I'm well aware there's nothing in the Bible that actually denotes Sunday as the Sabbath. The early, Apostolic period Christians did meet "On the Lord's Day to break bread" but there's nothing anywhere that says that that's a command.

I could have mentioned this but I wasn't going to bother. Some of them are so set in their ways that to point it out would have accomplished nothing.

I mean, they already practically assume theological conservatism = political conservatism anyway so its not like I could have gotten anywhere with it.

It annoyed me all the same though.

 

[Borachio]

I could have mentioned this but I wasn't going to bother. Some of them are so set in their ways that to point it out would have accomplished nothing.

I mean, they already practically assume theological conservatism = political conservatism anyway so its not like I could have gotten anywhere with it.

It annoyed me all the same though.

I see.

Anyway, how about these people? They seem to think Saturday is the day too.

7th Day Adventists

 

[GhostWriter16]

I wasn't talking about Saturday or 7th Day Adventists at all when I made that post

 

[Borachio]

No, I realize that. That wasn't my point.

My point was that not everyone thinks Sunday is the day to have off. I can't see what difference it does make.

I am in favour of everyone having the same day off, as far as practical, though. ( But does that make me a theocratic-conservative? I suspect not.)

A time for family stuff for everyone. And a time to reflect.

If you make it possible for poor people to work every day, that, in my experience, is what they'll do.

 

[caketastydelish]

I think raising the minimum wage would be an excellent blue law, based on Jesus saying "give to the poor"

 

[Traitorfish]

If we were going to take everything Jesus said seriously, we'd abolish all government and property, and that's clearly not going to happen. He's really more of a mascot than an actual religious authority.

 

[Angst]

I wasn't asking about unions themselves, but liberals. I'm surprised the Democrats and Republicans haven't (Note: For a Libertarian my reaction is "Thank goodness") gotten together and passed these laws bipartisanly.

Because blue laws are based on religious grounds. Wiki, first line.
"A blue law is a type of law designed to enforce religious standards"

Democrats don't do these things.

 

[Borachio]

If we were going to take everything Jesus said seriously, we'd abolish all government and property, and that's clearly not going to happen. He's really more of a mascot than an actual religious authority.

Link to video.
Lyrics:

Spoiler :

ARTIST: Trad and Anon
TITLE: Plastic Jesus


Well, I don't care if it rains or freezes,
Long as I have my plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Through all trials and tribulations,
We will travel every nation,
With my plastic Jesus I'll go far.

{Refrain}
Plastic Jesus, plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Through all trials and tribulations,
We will travel every nation,
With my plastic Jesus I'll go far.

I don't care if it rains or freezes
As long as I've got my Plastic Jesus
Glued to the dashboard of my car,
You can buy Him phosphorescent
Glows in the dark, He's Pink and Pleasant,
Take Him with you when you're travelling far

{Refrain}

I don't care if it's dark or scary
Long as I have magnetic Mary
Ridin' on the dashboard of my car
I feel I'm protected amply
I've got the whole damn Holy Family
Riding on the dashboard of my car

{Refrain}

You can buy a Sweet Madonna
Dressed in rhinestones sitting on a
Pedestal of abalone shell
Goin' ninety, I'm not wary
'Cause I've got my Virgin Mary
Guaranteeing I won't go to Hell

{Refrain}

I don't care if it bumps or jostles
Long as I got the Twelve Apostles
Bolted to the dashboard of my car
Don't I have a pious mess
Such a crowd of holiness
Strung across the dashboard of my car

{Refrain}

No, I don't care if it rains or freezes
Long as I have my plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
But I think he'll have to go
His magnet ruins my radio
And if we have a wreck he'll leave a scar

{Refrain}

Riding through the thoroughfare
With his nose up in the air
A wreck may be ahead, but he don't mind
Trouble coming, he don't see
He just keeps his eyes on me
And any other thing that lies behind

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Though the sun shines on his back
Makes him peel, chip, and crack
A little patching keeps him up to par

When pedestrians try to cross
I let them know who's boss
I never blow my horn or give them warning
I ride all over town
Trying to run them down
And it's seldom that they live to see the morning

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
His halo fits just right
And I use it as a sight
And they'll scatter or they'll splatter near and far

When I'm in a traffic jam
He don't care if I say Damn
I can let all sorts of curses roll
Plastic Jesus doesn't hear
For he has a plastic ear
The man who invented plastic saved my soul

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Once his robe was snowy white
Now it isn't quite so bright
Stained by the smoke of my cigar

God made Christ a Holy Jew
God made Him a Christian too
Paradoxes populate my car
Joseph beams with a feigned elan
From the shaggy dash of my furlined van
Famous ****old in the master plan

Naughty Mary, smug and smiling
Jesus dainty and beguiling
Knee-deep in the piling of my van
His message clear by night or day
My phosphorescent plastic Gay
Simpering from the dashboard of my van

When I'm goin' fornicatin
I got my ceramic Satan
Sinnin' on the dashboard of my Winnebago Motor Home
The women know I'm on the level
Thanks to the wild-eyed stoneware devil
Ridin' on the dashboard of my Winnebago Motor Home
Sneerin' from the dashboard of my Winnebago Motor Home
Leering from the dashboard of my van

If I weave around at night
And the police think I'm tight
They'll never find my bottle, though they ask
Plastic Jesus shelters me
For His head comes off, you see
He's hollow, and I use Him for a flask

Plastic Jesus, plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Ride with me and have a dram
Of the blood of the Lamb
Plastic Jesus is a holy bar

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I think raising the minimum wage would be an excellent blue law, based on Jesus saying "give to the poor"

Implementing a higher minimum wage is not giving to the poor. It is taking employment opportunities away from the very poor in order to benefit those who are slightly better off.

Based on Matthew 20, it seems that Jesus supported the right of a boss to hire employees at whatever price they can agree upon. The fact that others might be paid more is no excuse for employers to complain so long as they get that sum. He seems to have approved of a system of day-laborers. (Incidentally, the Law of Moses requires that all poor laborers be paid on the same day as they perform their labor, so there isn't much need for exploitative payday lenders.)

Jesus himself took advantage of Gleaners' Rights, so he would probably have favored laws protecting those rather than granting absolutist property rights. Tithes also functioned much like Geoist land value taxes used to redistribute wealth to the landless, so he might have favored those too.

 

[Borachio]

For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Is this a minimum wage argument?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It is an argument against refusing to pay a worker anything. It is not an argument for forbidding a laborer to work for a reward that both he and his employer find mutually acceptable just because it is less that some arbitrarily imposed price floor.

 

[Farm Boy]

I dunno, if that's the verse getting into what "muzzling" means is nebulous at best. You could use this to make a decent argument either way.

 

[Borachio]

Doesn't it mean muzzling would prevent the ox eating any of the corn? So making him work for nothing.

 

[Farm Boy]

Probably, but I've seen the insanity that some people read into vague scriptures. I wouldn't want to grant carte blance.

Presumably you would let the ox eat enough so that he was satiated, not let him graze for a couple minutes and then muzzle him later once he's eaten the bare minimum that will keep him tugging, but then we're reading into it again.

 

[kochman]

Blue laws are annoying...
If you need to schedule an entire nation off to have family time, your nation has a problem deeper than work schedules.

 

[Traitorfish]

They actually did that in Hungary- every Thursday evening, they stopped television and radio broadcasts to encourage families to spend more time together.

In the following years, it became a matter of popular wisdom that all children were conceived on a Thursday. Total coincidence, obviously.