thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
I was Referring to our discussion, where you were arguing a difference between tribals and raiders...
Also, see my above post regarding slavery in the N.I.R.
thanks.
thomas
BOTWAWKI Revised Thread
- Thread starter EQandcivfanatic
- Start date
I was Referring to our discussion, where you were arguing a difference between tribals and raiders...
Also, see my above post regarding slavery in the N.I.R.
thanks.
thomas
Tecknojock
Keeping the world running
@EQ, I could split it up into regions, though i can't move icons from one page to another without an Icon switching to the other page so it won't be exact. Like I said, I don't have time to overhaul the map until (if im lucky) next week. Otherwise it will be after easter. (I have 2 Group papers, 1 test, and 1 take home test to do)
Anonymoose
KING OF MEESE
Oh man, I knew the PAC would get unruly. What was I thinking? I've created a monster. Awesome update, though. 
Maybe next time orders won't be late...
Maybe next time orders won't be late...
Tecknojock
Keeping the world running
I probably will not have time to add landmarks this update, but I have updated all settlements and civilizations.
Also I don't have flags from:
Also I don't have flags from:
- Bekwa
- Biloxi Outcasts
- Black Mountain Rangers
- Brunswick Nation
- Earth Reclamation Command
- Vault 100
Vertinari118
Deity
Either the emblem of the US Army or the flag of the 75th Ranger Regiment would do for my faction.
Tecknojock
Keeping the world running
could you post it please?
Vertinari118
Deity
Emblem of the US Army Department:
75th Ranger Regiment (United States) Regiment Coat of Arms:
The Emblem of the US Army Department might be better because it could remain consistent, regardless of which unit or regiment was in control. However, the 75th Ranger Regiment's coat of arms would be more appropriate fluff wise as they are the leading force in the rangers at present.
On a totally different note when do orders need to be in?
Spoiler :
75th Ranger Regiment (United States) Regiment Coat of Arms:
Spoiler :
The Emblem of the US Army Department might be better because it could remain consistent, regardless of which unit or regiment was in control. However, the 75th Ranger Regiment's coat of arms would be more appropriate fluff wise as they are the leading force in the rangers at present.
On a totally different note when do orders need to be in?
Tecknojock
Keeping the world running
Orders are due this saturday.
When I think about it this makes perfect sense.
1 energy = the nuclear output of a reactor over a year or usually 1 GW*Year or 8760GW*hours/year.
The average wind turbine, (Assuming 10 hours of wind) .004166 GW * years or 36.45 GW*hours/year. You would need 240 turbines on 42.8 mi ^2.
Other than geothermal, the closest renewable would be a state of the art solar thermal plant which would need (assuming 8 hours of sun a day with a 4 hour thermal bank) 12.5 square miles.
A geothermal power plant, (though for us to construct one would be unlikely) could produce up to 2 GW*years or 17520 GW*hours/year.
Edit:I forgot to include hydropower which could also provide in the GWs with a large enough dam and tidal which could do it with a large enough bay with large tide differences. Biofuel steam plants could also produce in the GWs.
Wave, photovoltaic, bioelectric, thermocouple, chemical batteries, wind, and solar thermal are not very viable for this game. I'm surprised that EQ let us change tech parts into energy now. Perhaps its a deus ex machina to provide balance for us who could not do otherwise.
To include such small power generation, EQ would have to revise the current system or give small decimal amounts that would likely never add up to anything.
When I think about it this makes perfect sense.
1 energy = the nuclear output of a reactor over a year or usually 1 GW*Year or 8760GW*hours/year.
The average wind turbine, (Assuming 10 hours of wind) .004166 GW * years or 36.45 GW*hours/year. You would need 240 turbines on 42.8 mi ^2.
Other than geothermal, the closest renewable would be a state of the art solar thermal plant which would need (assuming 8 hours of sun a day with a 4 hour thermal bank) 12.5 square miles.
A geothermal power plant, (though for us to construct one would be unlikely) could produce up to 2 GW*years or 17520 GW*hours/year.
Edit:I forgot to include hydropower which could also provide in the GWs with a large enough dam and tidal which could do it with a large enough bay with large tide differences. Biofuel steam plants could also produce in the GWs.
Wave, photovoltaic, bioelectric, thermocouple, chemical batteries, wind, and solar thermal are not very viable for this game. I'm surprised that EQ let us change tech parts into energy now. Perhaps its a deus ex machina to provide balance for us who could not do otherwise.
To include such small power generation, EQ would have to revise the current system or give small decimal amounts that would likely never add up to anything.
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
I'm assuming you're scavenging fission cells from the tech parts, or something.
ChiefDesigner
Sunset Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 761
My understanding is that all dams were a target of Chinese nuclear blasts or saboteurs. Absent Robert House or some other functional missile defense network, there are no viable sources of hydropower.
I disagree; fractional energy amounts means my Tech Parts -> Energy conversion rate is superior. To make any real difference, all you need to do is generate 0.1 Energy/turn; that means it only takes 9 Tech Parts -> 1 Energy.
According to your math all that takes is a small wind farm of 20 turbines, fewer if you site them properly (on a ridge, say, or near a body of water).
(Also your math seems off; looks to me like you're assuming 24 productive hours for a 4 MW turbine, not 10)
Tecknojock
Keeping the world running
you are likely correct. While officially we don't have a word one way or another, this is probably the case. I was just pointing out renewable that would provide enough energy to be worth considering.ChiefDesigner said:
This is roughly the same.
10 hours * 10 MW = 100 MWh
24 hours * 4.166MW = 100 MWh
Your right, I forgot to update my number of turbines when I made the change form 12 hours of wind to 10 hours of wind (should of been 240). Everything else was correct though.
My math:
10 MW *1 GW/1000MW *10 hours production/24 hours a day *1 Year= .00416 GW years.
.00416 GW Years * 365 Days /1 Year * 24 hours / 1day / 1 year = 36.45 GW*hours/year (the capacity factor is already taken into account due to the adjusted GW years from above)
8760GWh/ 36.45 GWh * Turbines = 240.3 turbines
87 turbines on a 15.625 mi^2 (taken from Navitas Energy, L.L.C,) = 240 turbines on 43.103 mi^2
The best capacity factor of modern turbines, including location, is 38% or 9.12 hours of full strength wind a day (if thats the only wind that day, normally this is spread out over the entire day with lower wind speeds), so 10 hours or a 41.6% capacity factor) is a little generous.
I hadn't considered this, and it is a valid point. Perhaps EQ may look into this.
Northen Wolf
Young Hunter
I do not recall seeing windmills in Fallout universe, most stuff was self-powered by those weird reactors (nuclear?) and since reactors are somewhat nature friendly, one does not need windmills for power.
Converting tech parts into energy - would probably be gathering all the (car?) engines and batteries from equipment and using them to generate/build a generator/load a battery.
Tecknojock
Keeping the world running
I hadn't seen em either, but that doesn't mean they couldn't exist. They did have a thermal solar plant (HELIOS 1) and photovoltaic plants in New Vegas and a geothermal plant in the fallout bibles (I think?). I was just making a point from the energy production perspective.
ChiefDesigner
Sunset Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 761
Did none of you take the Explorer perk in New Vegas?!
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Southern_Nevada_Wind_Farm
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Southern_Nevada_Wind_Farm
Tecknojock
Keeping the world running
Vertinari118 your flag has been added.
Cheif I haven't had enough time to beat New Vegas yet. Its my brother's game so I can only play it when I go home to visit.
Cheif I haven't had enough time to beat New Vegas yet. Its my brother's game so I can only play it when I go home to visit.
Northen Wolf
Young Hunter
And take a look how many it takes to power one house?
All right, let's talk two different things at this point relating to the world of Fallout and wind energy.
First of all, let's talk about the War itself. Not a lot of information on the actual conduct of the war exists outside of interviews with the Enclave in Fallout 2. The only thing we can know for relative certain is that the Chinese launched their missiles first. Based on the evidence collected from Fallout 3's various computers within the Pentagon and the other government installations in DC, we also know about the relative success of the war against China prior to the launch of nukes. We know that the Chinese were on the run in their own homeland, and that US troops had even launched full campaigns in the Gobi Desert and the Yangtze (based off of evidence from New Vegas). Therefore it is logical to assume that at the time of the nuclear holocaust, the United States was not far from breaking the Chinese, thus the probable reason for launch.
Now, based on the areas of destruction in the first three fallouts, and evidence from conversation with Mr. House in New Vegas, I think I can make some reasonable assumptions about Chinese "strategy" in nuclear war. Though it may seem to have been indescriminate nuclear carpet bombing of the United States, I think it may have been more complicated than just that. Mr. House states that the area covered by Fallout: New Vegas was targetted by 77 nuclear warheads and that only 5 got through. Therefore I believe that judging by the areas we know were actually hit by bombs (i.e. Nellis) we can assume some of the Chinese's targetting priorities. Here is the assumptions I am making based on Fallout games to gauge where Chinese bombs hit:
1. Military bases and outposts: A caveat on this. I'm assuming that Air Force Bases would receive the highest priority of these, and training centers and National Guard the lowest. The West Coast would likely also receive the worst devastation against their bases due to the proximity to China itself.
2. Symbolic Targets: While not exactly rational, it seems that the Chinese placed a major emphasis on trying to hit symbolic American targets. Evidence of this seems to be the high concentration of missiles towards the trip and the obvious dead-on strike against the White House.
3. Energy Plants: this does not come from any evidence within the actual Fallout games, and in fact I'm astonished that none of the 5 that got through in New Vegas managed to hit the Hoover Dam. Considering the obviously large number of nukes the Chinese possessed and the equally obvious lack of any defense by the Americans (which I find a tad unrealistic, though it makes more sense if you consider the Enclave WANTED nuclear war to wipe the slate clean) I think that it's likely that electric facilities like hydroelectric dams, wind farms, and nuclear power plants would all rate highly on the Chinese targeting. Therefore, as previously stated, power plants are virtually impossible to find throughout the wasteland.
4. Now, based on what I know of about the Cold War and US/USSR tactics for a proposed nuclear war, I believe a priority target for "dirty bombs" would be regions that were known for agriculture. Therefore, prewar breadbaskets would likely have been irradiated to make them useless to the Americans and thus starve them into surrender.
5. Last priority target would likely be population centers. Surprisingly, based on evidence from all the Fallout games, a large amount of people "survived" the initial bomb drops. Though the majority of these turned into ghouls, it's my belief that the Chinese hoped to wipe out the resources of the US, and then let the population rebel or otherwise eliminate itself. A vicious strategy when you think about it.
All right, moving on to the issues about wind farms and energy. The reactors currently found by the Appalachian Commonwealth, Fort Morgan, and the Brunswick Nation are considered to me to be "mini" reactors. What this essentially means is that while they could power a medium to large compound of buildings, they are certainly not on the scale of vast city-supplying power. Also, I will admit that wind farms do seem to be present in the Fallout game, as I just recently stumbled into one in New Vegas populated by cazadors. At this time though, I'm choosing NOT to include them because they are still a relatively advanced piece of tech for balancing and electricity. If I were ya'll I'd look into the other, more immediately practical, properties of windmills. When you get right down to it energy really isn't that essential at this stage in the game unless you REALLY want robots. The only other purpose is for activating goodies or projects, which I believe the majority of you don't have. Fortunately, that's why I added the conversion of tech parts into energy.
About converting into energy. The assumption is that you find working pieces of old technology and strip them down for their batteries. While this sacrifices the technology at hand, it does provide the power you need for the minor jumpstart of a device or robot. I think it's suitably realistic for the situation.
First of all, let's talk about the War itself. Not a lot of information on the actual conduct of the war exists outside of interviews with the Enclave in Fallout 2. The only thing we can know for relative certain is that the Chinese launched their missiles first. Based on the evidence collected from Fallout 3's various computers within the Pentagon and the other government installations in DC, we also know about the relative success of the war against China prior to the launch of nukes. We know that the Chinese were on the run in their own homeland, and that US troops had even launched full campaigns in the Gobi Desert and the Yangtze (based off of evidence from New Vegas). Therefore it is logical to assume that at the time of the nuclear holocaust, the United States was not far from breaking the Chinese, thus the probable reason for launch.
Now, based on the areas of destruction in the first three fallouts, and evidence from conversation with Mr. House in New Vegas, I think I can make some reasonable assumptions about Chinese "strategy" in nuclear war. Though it may seem to have been indescriminate nuclear carpet bombing of the United States, I think it may have been more complicated than just that. Mr. House states that the area covered by Fallout: New Vegas was targetted by 77 nuclear warheads and that only 5 got through. Therefore I believe that judging by the areas we know were actually hit by bombs (i.e. Nellis) we can assume some of the Chinese's targetting priorities. Here is the assumptions I am making based on Fallout games to gauge where Chinese bombs hit:
1. Military bases and outposts: A caveat on this. I'm assuming that Air Force Bases would receive the highest priority of these, and training centers and National Guard the lowest. The West Coast would likely also receive the worst devastation against their bases due to the proximity to China itself.
2. Symbolic Targets: While not exactly rational, it seems that the Chinese placed a major emphasis on trying to hit symbolic American targets. Evidence of this seems to be the high concentration of missiles towards the trip and the obvious dead-on strike against the White House.
3. Energy Plants: this does not come from any evidence within the actual Fallout games, and in fact I'm astonished that none of the 5 that got through in New Vegas managed to hit the Hoover Dam. Considering the obviously large number of nukes the Chinese possessed and the equally obvious lack of any defense by the Americans (which I find a tad unrealistic, though it makes more sense if you consider the Enclave WANTED nuclear war to wipe the slate clean) I think that it's likely that electric facilities like hydroelectric dams, wind farms, and nuclear power plants would all rate highly on the Chinese targeting. Therefore, as previously stated, power plants are virtually impossible to find throughout the wasteland.
4. Now, based on what I know of about the Cold War and US/USSR tactics for a proposed nuclear war, I believe a priority target for "dirty bombs" would be regions that were known for agriculture. Therefore, prewar breadbaskets would likely have been irradiated to make them useless to the Americans and thus starve them into surrender.
5. Last priority target would likely be population centers. Surprisingly, based on evidence from all the Fallout games, a large amount of people "survived" the initial bomb drops. Though the majority of these turned into ghouls, it's my belief that the Chinese hoped to wipe out the resources of the US, and then let the population rebel or otherwise eliminate itself. A vicious strategy when you think about it.
All right, moving on to the issues about wind farms and energy. The reactors currently found by the Appalachian Commonwealth, Fort Morgan, and the Brunswick Nation are considered to me to be "mini" reactors. What this essentially means is that while they could power a medium to large compound of buildings, they are certainly not on the scale of vast city-supplying power. Also, I will admit that wind farms do seem to be present in the Fallout game, as I just recently stumbled into one in New Vegas populated by cazadors. At this time though, I'm choosing NOT to include them because they are still a relatively advanced piece of tech for balancing and electricity. If I were ya'll I'd look into the other, more immediately practical, properties of windmills. When you get right down to it energy really isn't that essential at this stage in the game unless you REALLY want robots. The only other purpose is for activating goodies or projects, which I believe the majority of you don't have. Fortunately, that's why I added the conversion of tech parts into energy.
About converting into energy. The assumption is that you find working pieces of old technology and strip them down for their batteries. While this sacrifices the technology at hand, it does provide the power you need for the minor jumpstart of a device or robot. I think it's suitably realistic for the situation.
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
EQ: I'm missing three canoes in my stats.
Tecknojock
Keeping the world running
Thanks for the background info.
I'm curious, what reactor output are we talking, it would be nice to be able to compare it to other forms? (1 MW= 730 people using total US per capita electricity usage including industries or the energy usage of a 2 mi^2 car factory)
Since we are talking mini reactors, I would have to agree. I guess I messed up my scale in my calculations.
I'm curious, what reactor output are we talking, it would be nice to be able to compare it to other forms? (1 MW= 730 people using total US per capita electricity usage including industries or the energy usage of a 2 mi^2 car factory)
Well, the reactor output really depends on the reactor. If you look at stats, it should be clear that some produce more than others. At the moment, it's not safe to say population per energy, because in most cases, the energy ISN'T used for standard use as IRL. Energy is more for one-time things such as jumpstarts and so forth. The exception to this are vaults, which typically all have electricity produced inherently and unrerroutably to power the vital systems.
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