Brave New World's 9 new Civs

[cybrxkhan]

You're not being an ultranationalist. There are still leaders who possibly shape the silhouette but nobody talks about them because there has been no momentum for them. Suryavarman of the Khmer is a notable one

Nah, I'm hiding my ultranationalism by pretending to be polite and coy about this all.


But really I could see the Khmer too. The building's real look is impossible to tell, and I could see it as a typical SE Asian temple from several cultures. I could also see it as a stilt house from ancient or early medieval Vietnam. There's plenty of possibilities here.


But..... again, I'm betting on Indonesia.

 

[SnowKomodo]

But really I could see the Khmer too. The building's real look is impossible to tell, and I could see it as a typical SE Asian temple from several cultures. I could also see it as a stilt house from ancient or early medieval Vietnam. There's plenty of possibilities here.

Just edited my last post. Threw in a few photos of what you just mentioned cause I feel like it hasn't been properly looked at in these threads

 

[AbsintheRed]

From the Ideas and Suggestions section of the forum: interesting poll on civ popularity

Information thanks to AbsintheRed

After 400 votes (+40):

1. Portugal: 205 (+24) - confirmed as a civ in BNW when it was on the 1st place
2. Zulu: 179 (+16) - confirmed as a civ in BNW when it was on the 2nd place
3. Indonesia: 162 (+20)
4. Poland: 139 (+14) - confirmed as a civ in BNW when it was on the 4th place
5.Brazil: 138 (+10) - confirmed as a civ in BNW when it was on the 4th place
6. Sumer: 134 (+9)

7. Kongo: 120 (+8)
8. Hittites: 112 (+4)
9. Sioux: 108 (+7)
10. Hungary: 106 (+16)
11. Khmer: 97 (+9)
12. Morocco/Moors: 96 (+14) - "confirmed" as a civ in BNW when it was on the 12th place
13. Phoenicia: 95 (+9)
13. Tibet: 95 (+8)
15. Assyria: ~93 (+10) - confirmed as a civ in BNW when it was on the 14th place

16. Hebrews: ~85 (+8)
17. Mali: 80 (+11)
18. Armenia: ~75 (+8)
19. Khazars: 70 (+10)
20. Vietnam: ~68 (+8)
21. Nubia: ~65 (+5)
21. Zimbabwe: 65 (+4)
23. Swahili/Kilwa: ~63 (+3)
23. Ashanti: ~63 (same as Swahili)

With at least 3-4 North American Native civs going in this list somewhere between 60-90 votes
Apache, Navajo, Comanche, Cherokee, Mississippian, Pueblo/Anasazi are among the most likely candidates that made it over 60.

And the categories got:
Other Middle-Eastern civs: 119 (+10) - Assyria, Hebrews and Armenia
Other European civs: 52 (+6)
Other African civs: 81 (+6) - Nubia, maybe Swahili and Ashanti
Other South Asian civs: 73 (+8) - Vietnam
Other Central Asian civs: 58 (+5)
Other colonial or "modern" civs: 104 (+10)
South American native civs: 62 (+5)
Other North American civs: 117 (+10) - As stated before, probably some of the Apache, Navajo, Cherokee, Comanche, Pueblo/Anasazi, Mississippian, Crow, Cree, Inuit made it to at least 60-90 votes, but I don't have enough information here for a good guess

Yeah, I already got the Moroccans as semi-confirmed after I saw the hint for the new civ yesterday
Guess I can put the Indonesians to the same level after the second hint
Btw, this is the poll thread if anyone is interested: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=460009

 

[cybrxkhan]

Edit: Photos of him (rather, one depiction, one sculpture)

Spoiler :

Yeah, just saw this. This would be a pretty reasonable - perhaps even a perfect - match for the hint. It's been harder to find a Khmer building that matches the one in the pic, but I've seen some temples and shrines on google images that could be partial matches.


Of course, the devs may have just mixed up different groups' styles. They made Gustav Adolphus look like an earlier Swedish king (by a century, maybe?) so it's not inconceivable they mixed styles for a region most of them probably don't know too much about.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Well, I consistently have been, but usually with an acknowledgement that it was extremely unlikely.

If I had to think of civs I've advocated for in the past, it would be:

Assyria (since Civ3)
Indonesia (since about last year)
Venice (since about last year)
Moors (for about two years now)

At one time I advocated for the Pueblos but switched to the Mississippians.

Seems like all 4 of your advocated civs are included in BNW
Pleeeeease advocate Hungary next time

 

[Dragonflow]

Of course, the devs may have just mixed up different groups' styles. They made Gustav Adolphus look like an earlier Swedish king (by a century, maybe?) so it's not inconceivable they mixed styles for a region most of them probably don't know too much about.

This is something we shouldn't forget. The devs make mistakes sometimes. We have Gustav looking like Eric IV and we have Khmer statues behind Ramkhamhaeng. We shouldn't exclude the possibility of the devs putting an Indonesian building into a Vietanemse/Khmer/Burmese leader-screen by accident.
Personally I still think it's Indonesia.

 

[AessaSH]

Is there any other civ which have the pointy-ear accessories in their fashion??
/me curious..

 

[Dragonflow]

Is there any other civ which have the pointy-ear accessories in their fashion??
/me curious..

Elfs and Lord of the Rings reenactors.

 

[Rajul]

My expected list:
Indonesia
Morocco
Sioux
Venice

"The-dev-go-mad" list:
Morocco (at this stage I can't even think of a credible alternative)
Normans
Shawnee
Tamil

 

[Inhalaattori]

In fact Tecumseh and Shawnee would make a lot of sense. It would be interesting choice. He united many Native tribes under his Confederacy. UA could be "Tecumseh's Confederacy" - something to do with diplomacy/city states.

Sitting Bull will/would make epic leader screen though.

 

[Dragonflow]

My expected list:
Indonesia
Morocco
Sioux
Venice

"The-dev-go-mad" list:
Morocco (at this stage I can't even think of a credible alternative)
Normans
Shawnee
Tamil

I could see the Shawnee be the Native American civ of this expansion.
Normans would actually be a fun civ to play.

 

[Loaf Warden]

And water wouldn't indicate Indonesia anymore than Vietnam or any other SE Asian civ - water has played an important role in most if not all of the major SE Asian civs.

Indeed. Even if that leader were explicitly standing on the edge of the ocean, the only Southeast Asian civ that would really eliminate is Laos. And there are good reasons Laos has not been talked about as an option that have nothing to do with not being "coastal".

 

[ldvhl]

In fact Tecumseh and Shawnee would make a lot of sense. It would be interesting choice. He united many Native tribes under his Confederacy. UA could be "Tecumseh's Confederacy" - something to do with diplomacy/city states.

Sitting Bull will/would make epic leader screen though.

I posted a hypothetical Shawnee civ a while ago on the official forums, it went like this:

Shawnee
Capital: Chalahgawtha
Leader: Tekoomsē
UA: The Great Comet. All allied CS contribute units during wartime, not just Militaristic CSs.
UU: Red Sticks. Replaces Musketman. Cost: 175. Combat 24. Movement 2. Attacking an enemy city causes 1 unhappiness in target civ for 5 turns. Conquering the city of an enemy civ with a Red Stick causes 10 unhappiness, decaying by 1 unhappiness per turn after the first.
UB: Mound. Replaces Granary. Cost: 70. Maintenance: 1. Also produces +1 Culture, +1 Faith.
Starting Bias: Grassland Hills

I would really love to see a ton more Native American civs in the franchise. There's a lot of variety to choose from, and they could add a lot of new gameplay potential.

 

[PhilBowles]

Dracula would be fun, but we already have enough crazy bloodthirsty leaders.

Come to think of it, has anyone spotted the CS of Bucharest anywhere?



Assuming it is Indonesia/Majapahit. As I and other posters have pointed out, there's always the possibility the new LH could be Vietnamese, Khmer, Burmese, even Tamil/Chola/Southern Indian.

Although I do think that it is Indonesia, 99% sure, we can't rule out Italy until we have definite confirmation it is Indonesia tomorrow.

And even then, we could still get Italy in the form of Venice - and other posters have suggested somewhat far-fetched but not impossible civs like Sicily and Tuscany.

It's not Khmer (although Civ IV portrayed Suryavarman as being somewhat light-skinned, the Khmer are one of the darker-skinned SE Asian ethnicities and this character looks too pale). There's no similarity in the clothing, either.

And the closer I look at the building in the background, the more closely it resembles the arch in Trowulan. There are angular, red-brick Khmer temples from the early Khmer period (such as the Rolous Group and Phanom Rung), but they wouldn't fit Suryavarman or Jaryavarman and why would you choose those to epitomise the Khmer? It's emphatically not Sri Lankan architecture. My Son in Vietnam, and Bagan in Myanmar, are in a similar style and are more feasible, but the evidence we have suggests Indonesia more strongly.

At the very least we can certainly rule out the Khmer and the Tamils (or indeed Sinhalese).

The devs have explicitly stated that there will be one more European civ (or even more - we know there is at least one more coming, there could be more).

They used the wording "There's one more European civ"; there's only one. And only room for one, now.

 

[PhilBowles]

You're not being an ultranationalist. There are still leaders who possibly shape the silhouette but nobody talks about them because there has been no momentum for them. Suryavarman of the Khmer is a notable one

Edit: Photos of him (rather, one depiction, one sculpture)

Spoiler :

Sorry, but how does this fit the silhouette in any way? The statues have the same headdress as Civ IV Suryavarman, which is in no way close to the headdress in the leaderhead, and even if they'd go for an actor's portrayal as a primary source (which is highly unlikely), the image on the left supports a point I've made - the Khmer are darker-skinned than this leader.

 

[PhilBowles]

This is something we shouldn't forget. The devs make mistakes sometimes. We have Gustav looking like Eric IV and we have Khmer statues behind Ramkhamhaeng. We shouldn't exclude the possibility of the devs putting an Indonesian building into a Vietanemse/Khmer/Burmese leader-screen by accident.
Personally I still think it's Indonesia.

I think this is highly unlikely - mistakes of switching one ruler for another and the use of statues that aren't even necessarily period-inappropriate for the Sukothai are a world away from confusing fairly well-known monumental architecture in several clearly distinct styles. Above all there's no way, with the available source material, that they'd have "accidentally" chosen a non-Khmer structure for the Khmer.

 

[sukritact]

Sorry, but how does this fit the silhouette in any way? The statues have the same headdress as Civ IV Suryavarman, which is in no way close to the headdress in the leaderhead, and even if they'd go for an actor's portrayal as a primary source (which is highly unlikely), the image on the left supports a point I've made - the Khmer are darker-skinned than this leader.

Shaka's icon is also lighter skinned FWIW, that second part isn't at all an issue.

I can't comment on the building, but I'm still expecting Indonesia regardless.

 

[AessaSH]

Elfs and Lord of the Rings reenactors.

Ack..
So.., the conclusion is, Majapahit sense of fashion was derived from elves eh..
As I expected from a civ with dragons and unicorns roaming around them..

 

[Martinus]

We should probably stop talking for the couple of hours until the two civs are announced, as it seems we are now going in circles.

 

[PhilBowles]

My feeling is that it's Raden Wijaya of the Majapahit (although again the image I cribbed from the other thread is of an actor rather than a historical depiction, and is also somewhat dark-skinned):

The style and placement of the building in relation to the leader character is suggestive quite aside from the similarities in the leader himself (the headdress is a little off, but it is for Gaja Maja as well and both are far closer than Suryavarman's).

Even the decoration on the armband seems to be the same.