I think the full role reveals on death pushed this in favour of the outcome seen here. It gave town confidence in the pro-town(ish) alignment of the neutral squads, so once both lost someone they were a major weight towards town victory, because they formed the core for a network. I'd have to know how many/which of us (Gondor and Orcs) were convertible to be sure. Ironically, I think the cult might have stood a (small) chance if they'd been allowed to keep playing after KM's death, because the "Orcs" might have wiped everyone out, and normally scum win a tie, letting mat beat Double A in the end game.
yeah Mat pointed this out in the dead QT. My biggest regret is that i didn't properly communicate to the cult that this game had a suicide mechanic.
Mat and Al Sipsclar, the two watchers were convertible. The original setup for 30 people didn't have convertible third parties, but when I downsized to 16 people I realized that cult didn't have a large enough pool of converts, so I let them convert the two watchers, and thus potentially manipulate the non-town factions from within.
cult goal was to "outnumber" all other factions, so to win, it would have had to have come down to you and mat, and Mat would have to have been mayor AND it would have to have been day when the last non-orc was lynched. but as mat pointed out in the dead QT this was theoretically possible, I just had a suicide mechanic built in from the start, which is fairly standard for cults and rendered this impossible.
I've attached my spreadsheet of night actions to this post
When I first created this game setup, after NSP 2, I had a clear vision in mind. In NSP 2 the mafia (Morgothians) were easily outplayed by the town and two neutral-ish cults. Cults are stronger than mafias, so what if I put a cult against a town and two neutral-ish mafias? Thus, this game was born.
Tom Bombadil http://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html You are eldest. You remember the first raindrop and the first acorn. You knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless. You knew the great forest, you are master of wood, water and hill. And soon, you will be master of all things once more. Sauron, Morgoth and the Valar destroyed your rightful domain. The Numenorians and Mordor alike cut and carved the trees for their fleets and armies, and to fuel their forges. The Old Forest died, and they built their decadent cities in its place. You helped the ringbearer because he would bring about Sauron’s demise. Now, he’s gone, as is Gandalf, Saruman, and anyone else who could oppose you. The time has come to lead your Hurons out into the world, to destroy the cities of men, and to replant the Old Forest. You will start here. You will start by convincing the locals to follow you, and to throw out both the Gondorians and the Orcs that have gathered here.
Personal Ability: Every night, you can scan someone to determine if they are convertible. If they are, you can convert them on a later night. You can only do one thing (converting or scanning) per night. You can try to convert blindly, but if they are unconvertible you die.
Personal Ability 2: You cannot be lynched on Day 1.
Faction Goal: Outnumber all other factions (or reach a situation where this outcome is inevitable).
You will receive a PM with a QT with your fellow cultists shortly
The cult leader himself. The cult was doing quite well, and likely to win until Morgan inexplicably decided to roleclaim. Maybe I should have given you guys cover roles, but there really weren't enough Bree-related roles to go around.
Lassie
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Goldberry
http://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html You are the River Daughter, wife of Tom Bombadil, and his foremost ally. Together, the two of you hope to convert the people of Middle Earth away from the Valar and Morgoth, and towards the way of the Old Forest … and to remove those who resist conversion.
Personal Ability 1: Your songs and rhymes guide the forest and the water. You can use them to block someone’s path (roleblock), or to unweave it (make someone immune to being roleblocked). You can only do one of these two things per night.
Personal Ability 2: If the primary converter of the cult dies, you inherit their ability.
Faction Goal: Outnumber all other factions (or reach a situation where this outcome is inevitable).
You will receive a QT to share with your fellow cultists shortly
Lassie's somewhat convoluted ability was actually two abilities rolled into one: In the 30-person setup the cult started with three people: Bombadil, a roleblocker, and a reserve-convert who just sortof sat there and waited for the main converter to die. I decided that having a person just sit there was boring, so I gave Lassie the roleblock, and when I decided cult wasn't powerful enough, also the unweave. So Lassie, what do you think? Is the unweave useful? Should it be used in the future?
Personally, I'm not very satisfied with it as a GM since its a fairly situational ability that just served to make the town roleblocker less useful, but I'm curious to know what you think.
Mat (post conversion)
The Barrow-Wight (unused)
if the cult converted one of the two convertible vanillagers, the vanillager would have become a Barrow-Wight, who could kill on every other night (the intent being that the cult kills on even nights and converts on odd nights or vice versa). KM had scanned BSmith as convertible, and had he gone through with the conversion, BSmith could have taken this role, but KM decided to switch to Auto, and AA decided to kill BSmith. I ruled that, had KM and AA both targeted BSmith, BSmith would have died a townie, because its no fun for anyone to get converted to a faction for whose win condition they never had a chance to work for. I decided to keep the Barrow-Wight secret, reasoning that it would be a pleasant surprise if it happened, and probably not crippling if it didn't. In hindsight I think I should have mentioned this in Bombadil's ability, allowing the cult to strategize around it's existence.
King Aragorn Elessar II
You are Aragorn, King of the Reunited Kingdom, ruler of Gondor, Arnor and most recently Umbar, victorious in the War of the Rings. Now though, you have come to rebuild the kingdom of Arnor in the North. This town should have been well suited for that purpose. Instead, you now find your delegation under threat by unknown forces, and you find strange whispers amongst the townsfolk, of magic and possibly dissent. It is your task to get to the bottom of what’s going on here, whatever it takes.
Personal Ability: You are still a skilled warrior, and despite being king, you intend to use that skill here if necessary. You can kill any player of your choice at night.
Ability 2: You are the king. One time per game, you can choose to veto a lynch. But beware that this will reveal your identity and this is a single-use ability: you cannot keep the mob back for long.
Faction Goal: The Gondorian Delegation must eliminate all other factions, except for the Bree Townies (they are no threat)
You will receive a QT with your faithful subjects shortly
Aragorn, lynchstopping vig and extremely powerful role. Maybe too much power in one person honestly, but it worked out ok I think. Also fun fact: I've seen Aragorn as a vig on this site fairly often, which makes sense. But from the lore he was also a healer, yet I've never seen him as a doctor. Heck, I could see Aragorn justified as a necromancer. hmm...
Autolycus
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Soldier of Gondor
A loyal soldier of Gondor who has followed his king to these far northern lands. Your task is to protect him, and the rest of the delegation.
Personal Abilities:
1: Bodyguard: At night you can target another player. Any night kills targeted against them will hit you instead.
2: Armor: You survive the first attack aimed against you. You may give this armor to one of your comrades during the day. You lose this ability and they gain an equivalent. Only you need to confirm the transfer via PM, I will notify the recipient.
Faction Goal: The Gondorian Delegation must eliminate all other factions, except for the Bree Townies (they are no threat)
You will receive a PM with a QT with your allies shortly
A novel role, and if properly coordinated, potentially a very useful one: Had Atheotes protected Auto, and auto protected someone else, TWO players would have gotten atheotes's protection instead of one (Auto and Auto's target). Sadly, the novelty of the role, coupled with confusion about its priority vs. doctor protections meant this never came to pass. Auto mostly decided not to use his ability, since it was likely to get him killed. Probably a wise decision, since he was the only unconvertible member of his faction still alive at the end of the game.
Auto, what do you think? Was this an interesting ability or no? Was it fun? Would you recommend subjecting other players to it in future games?
Al Sipsclar
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Ranger
You are a Dunedain ranger, a loyal ally and follower of Aragorn. You have followed him through the War of the Rings, and you are happy to return to your beloved homeland of Arnor under his banner. You hope to contribute your skills as a Watcher to the cause of the Reunited Kingdom.
Personal Ability: At night, you can pick someone to watch. You learn who visited them that night, if anyone.
Faction Goal: The Gondorian Delegation must eliminate all other factions, except for the Bree Townies (they are no threat)
The Gondorian watcher. My only regret with this role is that the image in the PM is actually of a ranger from Ithilien (Faramir's rangers), not a Dunedain of Arnor, even though as Al Sipsclar pointed out in his campaign for mayor, the role is that of an Arnorian ranger. The fact that I care about this difference enough to write this says interesting things about me
Gurat Kafak
Mount Gundabad: The Great Fortress of the Orcs in the North. From here, Azog and Bolg once governed realms as distant as Moria and Goblin Town, throughout the north and the misty mountains. Now, the mountain is weakened, but it is not fallen. Though elsewhere orcs have been slaughtered by the imperial juggernaut of Gondor, your stronghold stands tall, and your tunnels run deep. The King of Gondor wants to rebuild the Numenorian Empire of Arnor. You will not stand for that. You have been dispatched here by Gundabad to kill him, and to kill the Gondorian delegation. The normal townsfolk are of no concern to you, necessarily. Some have even agreed to assist you. Image and loose inspiration from https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Gurat-kafak
Personal Ability: Looks like Man Flesh is back on the menu boys! You can nightkill any player of your choice.
Faction Goal: The Gundabad Spies must eliminate all other factions, except for the Bree Townies (they are no threat)
You will receive a PM with a QT with your allies shortly.
Double A was the orc vig and an effective and reliable kill for his faction, though due to Wormtongue Cult-Mat whispering in his ear, he mostly hit townies in the late game. Not much more to say than that.
Zack
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Uruk-Hai
We are the fighting Uruk-Hai! It doesn’t matter that our leader is dead and our stronghold destroyed by trees. We are still the fighting Uruk-Hai! You have allied with local former agents of Saruman and orcs from Mount Gundabad to exact revenge upon Aragorn, one of Isengard’s many foes.
Personal Ability: Fires of Orthanc: You have two barrels of blasting powder from Isengard. You can use them as single-shot nightkills. You can also use two for the same kill to make the kill unblockable, meaning abilities that normally save your target would not protect them. These barrels cannot be replenished and only you know how to set up and operate them.
Personal Ability 2: Orc-Medicine: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Orc_medicine You have a flask of medicine from Isengaard. If you are mortally wounded at night you automatically apply the flask to yourself to stave of death. You only have one dose and you have no way to replenish it. This is a 1-shot nightkill immunity. You may give the flask to one of your colleagues during the day. You lose this ability and they gain an equivalent. Only you need to confirm the transfer via PM, I will notify the recipient.
Faction Goal: The Gundabad Spies must eliminate all other factions, except for the Bree Townies (they are no threat)
You will receive a PM with a QT with your allies shortly
When I created the orcs and the gondorians, I had a clear vision in mind for them as "secretive unstopable force" (orcs) vs. "overt immovable object" (gondor). This vision was largely abandoned with the downsize, but Zack retained one aspect of it, in the form of the combine barrels to kill-through-bulletproof ability. My reasoning was simple: Gondor could deflect two more kills than the orcs could (Auto's ability and Kennigit's lynchstop) so I gave the orcs two extra kills. However, Zack's barrels were never put to good use because Gondor has allied themselves with Atheotes, who protected them.
Mat (pre-conversion)
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Bill Ferny
A Man of Bree by blood, a servant of Saruman by trade. You supported the old man’s efforts to modernize Bree and the Shire, and for your troubles, you got a kick from a pony. You’ve agreed to work with the orcs from Gundabad because they pay well, and were on good terms with your former employers. You are a skilled spy, and can discern who visits whom in the night.
Personal Ability: At night, you can pick someone to watch. You learn who visited them that night, if anyone.
Faction Goal: The Gundabad Spies must eliminate all other factions, except for the Bree Townies (they are no threat)
You will receive a QT with your co-conspirators shortly
Bill Ferney, canonically a man of eternally shifting allegiances, ended up re-capitulating that role in this game. Mat played well as townie and cultist, but was Bombadil's only convert all game (converted N3), which leads me to wonder if I made the cult wasn't strong enough.
Town roleblocker. The ability was only used once, on AA, the same night Lassie used it. That one use later got Duff lynched. As someone whose been lynched for being town roleblocker plenty of times, but also lied about being town roleblocker plenty of times, I sympathize
Snerk/JohannahK:
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Nob
You are a hobbit servant working for Barliman Butterbur at the Prancing Pony in. It pays the bills, and over the years, it’s been unexpectedly interesting work. You’ve seen Nazgul, Ruffians, and all manner of other strangeness. During this time, you’ve had to help some people hide out, so you know a thing or two about that
Personal Ability: At night, you can target another player. If they don’t use an ability on that night, all other abilities used against them fail. If they do use an ability, then your ability fails.
This was an experimental role, originally designed for a mostly vanilla town. It was the only way townies could protect themselves from conversion, aside from choxorn, who had been randed to be secretly unconvertible at the start of the game. It also protected from other roles. JohannahK would indeed sabotage King Morgan twice (when he scanned Zack and then when he tried to convert Auto), but both times he was targeting unconvertible members of neutral factions anyway. Amusingly, JK actually saved King Morgan when KM tried to convert auto, since if KM had targeted an unconvertible person, he would have died, and auto was unconvertible.
JohannahK, what did you think about this ability? It was rather unusual, and as far as I know, my own personal homebrew. Would you recommend I or other GMs use it? Was it fun?
Winston
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Human of Bree
You are a normal human of Bree. You live your life, and try not to cause any trouble. Hopefully this latest trouble will blow over soon.
A vanilla townie. Played quite well in thread. For some reason everyone thought he was cult leader all the time.
Jarrema
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Barliman Butterbur
A cheerful but forgetful barman who owns the Prancing Pony inn in Bree.
Personal Ability: People say a lot of things when their drunk that they normally wouldn’t, and you can discern from this things about their motives and identity. You can tell if someone is town, or non-town. Note that non-town doesn’t necessarily mean a threat to the town (though it could). It does certainly mean someone worth investigating further
Still hasn't opened his role PM . In the original 30-player setup, Butterbur's scan was less reliable, with at least one role that screwed with this scan by allowing its user to flip people's alignment (i.e. make townies scan as non-town and vice versa). It was to be handed out to one of the neutral factions, possibly Gundabad, or maybe to Bombadil, I hadn't really decided. The reason being that I don't like 100% fair cops. With the downsizing that "concealer/framer" role was removed, but I intend to use it one day.
Takhisis
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Bob
You are a Hobbit servant of Barliman Butterbur, the stablekeeper at the Prancing Pony. You care for the horses and try to stay out of trouble. You’ve seen many strange people in the inn over the years, including people with causes and their hapless converts. This has given you the skills to determine if someone is susceptible to conversion.
Personal Ability: At night you can target anyone and scan them to determine if they are convertible.
Bob's ability was basically Butterbur's ability lite. Convertibility roughly corresponded to town-ness (only exceptions being Choxorn (unconvertible townie) and Mat and Sipsclar (convertible non-towns)), and scanning a cultist once they were converted would reveal them to be unconvertible, so it was a non-intuitive cultist assay. I put him in on the expectation cult would snowball and hide in the shadows, and probably get their kill early, and that one of the two scanners would die quickly. What I didn't expect was that BOTH scanners would die early. But cult never got the barrow wight, and never snowballed as I thought they would.
athoetes
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Polly Leafcutter
You are a healer who lives in Bree. You live your life, and try not to cause any trouble. Hopefully this latest trouble will blow over soon. OOC Note: You are this person https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Polly_Leafcutter
Personal Ability: At night, you may target a player who isn’t yourself: They cannot be nightkilled on that night (doctor)
I don't know how Gondor figured out which of AA and Atheotes (the two who visited Kennigit N1) was the doctor and which was the killer, but that correct determination was the start of this game's most successful interfaction alliance. Atheotes protected his Gondorian allies to the bitter end, and was killed by AA after the orcs had (correctly) concluded that Atheotes was acting against them and (incorrectly) concluded he was cult. Well that, and after cult-mat convinced AA to target not-the-cult.
BSmith
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Human of Bree
You are a normal human of Bree. You live your life, and try not to cause any trouble. Hopefully this latest trouble will blow over soon.
A vanilla townie who narrowly avoided joining the ranks of the cult
choxorn
Spoiler:
spaceman98 said:
Hobbit of Bree:
You are a Hobbit living in Bree. You live your life, and try not to cause any trouble. Hopefully this latest trouble will blow over soon.
After assigning the three vanillagers I RNG-ed one of them to be unconvertible. Choxorn was that lucky vanillager, the only unconvertible townie in the game.
It's an interesting ability I had. I would have used it more if I had had more net access, but knowing the abundance of power roles I wasn't ever sure it was going to work... in any case it can also be useful as the results indicate whether the target has an ability.
I had a good time too. Even though I was vanilla in a sea of power roles it was fun to get into this. Glad I didn't ultimately become cult in the end, though for a bit there I was hoping for conversion as it seemed that they were going to win after all.
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Indeed. All things happen for a reason.
