British parliament denies people a referendum on leaving the EU

[Quackers]

We make some good television and movies too tbh

 

[CommonKnowledge]

Well personally I think Britain is just swamped in nostalgia, any country that can conceive the phrase "two world wars one world cup" really needs to evaluate itself.

 

[imperialman]

Well personally I think Britain is just swamped in nostalgia, any country that can conceive the phrase "two world wars one world cup" really needs to evaluate itself.

I would point out that it's the English who sing that, not all of the British. Also, personal opinion aside, you can't really deny the UK is a world power.

 

[Benefactor]

I would point out that it's the English who sing that, not all of the British. Also, personal opinion aside, you can't really deny the UK is a world power.

Thats half the point though, combine us with the French military, German economy, Spanish holiday resorts, and ... the rest, and you've got a winning combination .


p.s. It's not all the English who sing that either .

 

[imperialman]

Thats half the point though, combine us with the French military, German economy, Spanish holiday resorts, and ... the rest, and you've got a winning combination .


p.s. It's not all the English who sing that either .

The French military!? They can barely organise a navy into anything beyond a two tier coastguard (aside from the Charles de Gaulle) and they have much less amphibious or power projection capability. I'd rate the UK military similar to theirs but with much greater power projection abilities due to the amphibious assets the RN and RFA operate. That said, I am all for further European integration.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I agree with Winner on this one. It would probably be better for both to see the UK leaving the EU. Unfortunately, the UK has, objectively speaking, no national interest in doing so. And as such they won't.

Economically speaking, moving out of the EU wouldn't change much for the UK. Switzerland for instance isn't a member of the EU, but as a member of the Schengen area, the Swiss are almost more integrated to Europe than the Brits are. The big loss for the UK would be political, as if the UK leaves, they won't have a voice anymore on EU affairs.

And that's exactly why they will never leave. During 40 years, the UK's EU policy has been to slow down EU development. Basically, the UK joined the EU in order to fight it from the inside. And that policy turned out to be a great success. Of course, I'm not saying the current EU mess is their fault, but what is sure is that they didn't help.

During the last 15 years (since Tony Blair), the UK turned out to be the most influential country in Europe. Basically, the EU made everything the Brits wanted since 1995.

And the best success of the Brits has been to turn out the EU into an empty shell. Keeping the unanimity rules despite enlargement, and allowing countries to "opt-out" from EU decisions have both been ideas driven by the UK. And it changed the EU into something totally unable to behave as a block anymore. Thus losing all the benefits of its economical weight.


So overall, the UK has proven that the best way to keep the EU down was to stay in... not to leave out. And that's exactly the reason why Cameron doesn't want to hear about a referendum on the EU.

 

[imperialman]

This reminds me of a scene in 'Yes, Minister'.

Sir Humphrey: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last five hundred years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now, when it's worked so well?

Hacker: That's all ancient history, surely?

Sir Humphrey: Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing [the EU] up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing: set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch. The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it's just like old times.

Hacker: But surely we're all committed to the European ideal?

Sir Humphrey: [chuckles] Really, Minister.

Hacker: If not, why are we pushing for an increase in the membership?

Sir Humphrey: Well, for the same reason. It's just like the United Nations, in fact; the more members it has, the more arguments it can stir up, the more futile and impotent it becomes.

Hacker: What appalling cynicism.

Sir Humphrey: Yes... we call it diplomacy, Minister.

 

[imperialman]

Hacker: Europe is a community of nations, dedicated towards one goal.

Sir Humphrey: Oh, ha ha ha.

Hacker: May we share the joke, Humphrey?

Sir Humphrey: Oh Minister, let's look at this objectively. It is a game played for national interests, and always was. Why do you suppose we went into it?

Hacker: To strengthen the brotherhood of free Western nations.

Sir Humphrey: Oh really. We went in to screw the French by splitting them off from the Germans.

Hacker: So why did the French go into it, then?

Sir Humphrey: Well, to protect their inefficient farmers from commercial competition.

Hacker: That certainly doesn't apply to the Germans.

Sir Humphrey: No, no. They went in to cleanse themselves of genocide and apply for readmission to the human race.

Hacker: I never heard such appalling cynicism! At least the small nations didn't go into it for selfish reasons.

Sir Humphrey: Oh really? Luxembourg is in it for the perks; the capital of the EEC, all that foreign money pouring in.

Hacker: Very sensible central location.

Sir Humphrey: With the administration in Brussels and the Parliament in Strasbourg? Minister, it's like having the House of Commons in Swindon and the Civil Service in Kettering!

 

[innonimatu]

“Eurosceptics need to be quite careful about what they wish for. Because if they succeed in pushing this country – and they won’t succeed as long as I’m in government – to push this country towards the ‘Exit’ sign, let’s be clear, the people who will be damaged is British families, British businesses, British jobs, British communities and I will not let that happen.”

So an exit would be a double win for Britain - get rid of the EU and of Cameron!

Trouble with a lot of people in Britain is that they still think it's a world power and as such can shake their swagger stick at all those lesser countries. Apparantly it is still a leader in the financial sector but it's hard to understand why; other than mind meltingly awful reality tv, statisitcs and moaning we don't produce much.

A few years ago I too was ready to dismiss the UK as a finished former world power. A friend who spent some years teaching tried to convince me that I was wrong, that despite Thatcher's most strenuous efforts the UK was still an industrial powerhouse and an influential country. Now I'm more ready to believe that: the UK is roughly equal to France or Germany even in its apparently neglected industrial sector, and can still expand it if necessary. With the EU breaking apart I wouldn't be surprised if the british government already has people planing the post-EU scenarios, even while its prime-minister keeps vouching for europeism.

 

[Marla_Singer]

This reminds me of a scene in 'Yes, Minister'.

Sir Humphrey: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last five hundred years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now, when it's worked so well?

Hacker: That's all ancient history, surely?

Sir Humphrey: Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing [the EU] up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing: set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch. The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it's just like old times.

Hacker: But surely we're all committed to the European ideal?

Sir Humphrey: [chuckles] Really, Minister.

Hacker: If not, why are we pushing for an increase in the membership?

Sir Humphrey: Well, for the same reason. It's just like the United Nations, in fact; the more members it has, the more arguments it can stir up, the more futile and impotent it becomes.

Hacker: What appalling cynicism.

Sir Humphrey: Yes... we call it diplomacy, Minister.

Thanks for that. As a matter of fact, it exactly says the part of my post I deleted because I feared to be accused of typical French anglophobia.

But coming from a Brit, the argument suddenly becomes a lot more powerful.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Except only one of you two is being serious

 

[Takhisis]

What's the difference between Englishmen and French?

 

[Marla_Singer]

Except only one of you two is being serious

Prove me Sir Humphrey is wrong!

 

[Crezth]

The French military!? They can barely organise a navy into anything beyond a two tier coastguard (aside from the Charles de Gaulle) and they have much less amphibious or power projection capability. I'd rate the UK military similar to theirs but with much greater power projection abilities due to the amphibious assets the RN and RFA operate. That said, I am all for further European integration.

I thought the French Foreign Legion was a big deal and that the French have the biggest blue-water navy in the world?

 

[Tycho Brahe]

I would point out that it's the English who sing that, not all of the British. Also, personal opinion aside, you can't really deny the UK is a world power.

But not a big one. Not big enough to do mutch without US or the other European countryes or both.

 

[Tycho Brahe]

What's the difference between Englishmen and French?

The french are better at making food and making love.

The english are superior in haidressing and popmusic.

 

[exhile]

The french are better at making food and making love.

The english are superior in haidressing and popmusic.

And this is from first hand experience.

 

[GamezRule]

The EU will collapse when our resources run out, anyway. But it's okay, you still got a good 20-30 years!

 

[Takhisis]

Superior in hairdressing? WHHHAAAATTTT???

 

[Tycho Brahe]

And this is from first hand experience.

Yes. I know from first hand that englishMEN are horrible lovers.

No I have neither had my hair done or made love to anyone from France or England.