glider1
Deity
Ok, suggestions noted. I will soon begin working on adding the ability of the AI to use the logistics promotion line and will think about adding these extra promotions.
Cheers.
Cheers.
[BTS 3.17] Super Spies - Standalone
- Thread starter Lord Tirian
- Start date
HiRezAudio
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2007
- Messages
- 577
It would also be very neat to be able to deliberately frame other civs for your actions.
This was a function in the sadly missed Alpha Centauri game.
Also - does the mod work with 3.19BtS please?
This was a function in the sadly missed Alpha Centauri game.
Also - does the mod work with 3.19BtS please?
glider1
Deity
Super spies is built into RevDCM for 3.19 below.
Cheers.
Cheers.
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Yes RevDCM has 3.19(which is awsome) but you can't play scenarios like Nobles Club and LHC with RevDCM, the standalone you can. would be nice to just have the SS as you have it now in DCM as a 3.19 standalone to play with scenarios. Do you think you would want to do that for us glider?
Lord Tirian
Erratic Poster
As a note, I cannot do that currently, because I modified my Visual Studio install to get something else to run properly - and I don't seem to be be able to compile the BTS dll and do the other project at once - at least short of a re-install. I'm working on the stuff for uni until end of July/start of August, then I should be able to get it up and running for Civ-stuff again.
Until then, I'm afraid, I can't really do anything about it.
If anybody else updates it, would be really cool, otherwise I'll do it later - sorry, about that.
Cheers, LT.
glider1
Deity
@Cripp
Good to hear from you cripp. Will add it to the list of things I have to do, to update SS to BTS 319.
Cheers.
Good to hear from you cripp. Will add it to the list of things I have to do, to update SS to BTS 319.
Cheers.
davidlallen
Deity
In Dune Wars and specifically this thread, we have been discussing about super spies. One of the civs will have a "hero spy" ability where each spy gains 1 XP per turn, like FFH heroes, and the civ is hoped to do most of its work via spies. I have looked a little bit into the XML for super spies. I love how promotions are carefully worked in using existing xml tags like interception percentage.
I have some suggestions, many from Ahriman, about new missions which could be added. I can write python, but not sdk, and this mod is all about sdk. Is anybody interested in adding some missions? Here are some suggestions.
1. Mission to freeze cultural output, or outright decrease culture by a level. The idea here is to hurt a civ's expansion and soften up outlying cities for a culture flip.
2. It is probably too powerful, but a culture flip mission for a city. There is a hero Loki in FFH which does this; he can float around borders and look for new cities, and flip them. This should cause a diplomatic penalty from the person who lost the city to the person who won it.
3. It was suggested recently to add a mission which gives a diplomatic penalty against a third party. Rather than basing this on a mission fail, you can add it as its own mission. The fact that there is a "cover story" of some mission which fails does not matter; the point is to frame another civ. There is a Random Event already which does this, something about a huge diplomatic faux pas. For the player, there could be a submenu which lists all the third party players (neither the attacker nor the defender need to be listed). The AI could pick either the attacker's worst enemy, or any civ with a positive reaction to the defender and a negative reaction to the attacker.
4. In the case of Rev DCM but not standalone, a mission which flips the influence of a single tile. This is related to Influence Driven War. I am not sure exactly how the mechanic would work and it may be hard to implement. But it would be interesting to temporarily flip a town or resource on the border.
5. A hook from promotions into base mission cost. Some spies may be able to perform missions with a lower EP cost.
6. A hook from promotions into EP accumulation rate. When operating as a specialist, some spies may be able to generate EP faster than the base rate.
7. Today certain missions can be globally locked or unlocked by editing the xml (assassination and bribe). It would be helpful to have finer granularity, to lock missions by something else. For example, by tech or by civ. I can think of a few ways to do it; the most general way is probably to unlock certain missions only if the selected spy has certain promotions. Then civs can have UU with that promotion free, or the promotion can be unlocked by a tech.
Do any of these ideas sound interesting/doable?
I have some suggestions, many from Ahriman, about new missions which could be added. I can write python, but not sdk, and this mod is all about sdk. Is anybody interested in adding some missions? Here are some suggestions.
1. Mission to freeze cultural output, or outright decrease culture by a level. The idea here is to hurt a civ's expansion and soften up outlying cities for a culture flip.
2. It is probably too powerful, but a culture flip mission for a city. There is a hero Loki in FFH which does this; he can float around borders and look for new cities, and flip them. This should cause a diplomatic penalty from the person who lost the city to the person who won it.
3. It was suggested recently to add a mission which gives a diplomatic penalty against a third party. Rather than basing this on a mission fail, you can add it as its own mission. The fact that there is a "cover story" of some mission which fails does not matter; the point is to frame another civ. There is a Random Event already which does this, something about a huge diplomatic faux pas. For the player, there could be a submenu which lists all the third party players (neither the attacker nor the defender need to be listed). The AI could pick either the attacker's worst enemy, or any civ with a positive reaction to the defender and a negative reaction to the attacker.
4. In the case of Rev DCM but not standalone, a mission which flips the influence of a single tile. This is related to Influence Driven War. I am not sure exactly how the mechanic would work and it may be hard to implement. But it would be interesting to temporarily flip a town or resource on the border.
5. A hook from promotions into base mission cost. Some spies may be able to perform missions with a lower EP cost.
6. A hook from promotions into EP accumulation rate. When operating as a specialist, some spies may be able to generate EP faster than the base rate.
7. Today certain missions can be globally locked or unlocked by editing the xml (assassination and bribe). It would be helpful to have finer granularity, to lock missions by something else. For example, by tech or by civ. I can think of a few ways to do it; the most general way is probably to unlock certain missions only if the selected spy has certain promotions. Then civs can have UU with that promotion free, or the promotion can be unlocked by a tech.
Do any of these ideas sound interesting/doable?
Ahriman
Tyrant
1. An entire culture level is probly too much. But one possible way to implement this sort of effect would be to have a mission create a building in the city that gave a permanent culture output %x penalty or -y culture per turn.
2. Loki can only flip cities with zero or negative culture (and has another ability that causes negative culture per turn in that city). There are many fewer culture producers in FFH, so this is much more feasible. Also, factions generally start much closer to each other and much more accessible, relative to the archipelago-like Dune maps, so its much easier to harass your enemies with this in the early game. The ability has little use beyond the early game.
Re: 5.
Since what I think what you want is for UU spies for some factions to be cheaper, the same relative effect could probably be accomplished by just giving that faction a bonus to
Example: have the palace for each faction create a "Faction X citizens" building in all cities in that empire, and then this building could have different effects. Atreides building could give +1 happy, -25% espionage points. Bene gesserit could give +25% espionage points. Harkonnen could give +1 hammer per unhappy citizen, etc.
2. Loki can only flip cities with zero or negative culture (and has another ability that causes negative culture per turn in that city). There are many fewer culture producers in FFH, so this is much more feasible. Also, factions generally start much closer to each other and much more accessible, relative to the archipelago-like Dune maps, so its much easier to harass your enemies with this in the early game. The ability has little use beyond the early game.
Re: 5.
Since what I think what you want is for UU spies for some factions to be cheaper, the same relative effect could probably be accomplished by just giving that faction a bonus to
Example: have the palace for each faction create a "Faction X citizens" building in all cities in that empire, and then this building could have different effects. Atreides building could give +1 happy, -25% espionage points. Bene gesserit could give +25% espionage points. Harkonnen could give +1 hammer per unhappy citizen, etc.
davidlallen
Deity
Part of the sentence was missing. I was not actually looking to make spies cheaper in hammer cost, I can do that by giving the civ a UU which is arbitrarily cheap. The problem was that when I start using these super duper spies, I have this great high level unit but because I haven't also been producing EP output, I can only afford the cheapest, boringest missions. Boringest probably isn't a word
. For those of us with poor planning skills and little patience, this enables the cool new unit to do something faster when I haven't planned ahead enough to have EP against my enemy.
Ahriman
Tyrant
I know you meant EP cost and not hammer cost, but other than poor planning, EP boosts for a faction have a similar effect to cheaper missions.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Anyway anyone cant make this strictly with python?
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
ScavengerType
Warlord
Hey I was looking at porting this over to a mod I've just started working on Second Revolution 3.0(BTS) I'm wondering if anyone can help me with some questions I've been having.
Basically I am looking at eventually making 2 unique espionage type units per civ(of which there are 6) and I'm considdering if it would be possible to make for from 3 to 12 separate espionage menus. I am having difficulty finding the exact coding areas that index the espionage button missions. I have considered just breaking them to menu style buttons as the quantity of missions per unit will invariably be much smaller than regular. If it is simple I'd prefer to stick to espionage menus as it would be a pain to make new graphics and the interface change may bug people.
Also, I'm wondering if anyone here knows of any kitchen sink mods that contain super spies(or at least the promotion/AI counterespionage part) and other SDK changes that would be appropriate for Second revolution 3.0. I know it's a stretch but I just thought I would ask.
also, in case the multiple espionage menu option is not viable, does anyone know of any graphics already created for the out of the box missions.
Basically I am looking at eventually making 2 unique espionage type units per civ(of which there are 6) and I'm considdering if it would be possible to make for from 3 to 12 separate espionage menus. I am having difficulty finding the exact coding areas that index the espionage button missions. I have considered just breaking them to menu style buttons as the quantity of missions per unit will invariably be much smaller than regular. If it is simple I'd prefer to stick to espionage menus as it would be a pain to make new graphics and the interface change may bug people.
Also, I'm wondering if anyone here knows of any kitchen sink mods that contain super spies(or at least the promotion/AI counterespionage part) and other SDK changes that would be appropriate for Second revolution 3.0. I know it's a stretch but I just thought I would ask.
also, in case the multiple espionage menu option is not viable, does anyone know of any graphics already created for the out of the box missions.
davidlallen
Deity
By coincidence, I am also planning on doing some work here. I would like to filter the missions available to units by promotion. For example, the assassination mission would only be available to units with an Assassin promotion. This way, certain units can start with this promotion by default, and only they would be able to take this mission.
I am also hoping to add missions which give a diplomacy bonus. You can see some lively debate about the idea around this post and following.
The espionage dialog is drawn in sdk, in CvDLLButtonPopup::launchDoEspionagePopup(). If the mission is "two phases", that means it has a target submenu such as buildings, which is put up by launchDoEspionageTargetPopup.
Super spies is a standard part of the RevolutionDCM mod. I am not sure how this relates to Second Revolution, but if you are building on top of RevDCM, you already have the code.
I am also hoping to add missions which give a diplomacy bonus. You can see some lively debate about the idea around this post and following.
The espionage dialog is drawn in sdk, in CvDLLButtonPopup::launchDoEspionagePopup(). If the mission is "two phases", that means it has a target submenu such as buildings, which is put up by launchDoEspionageTargetPopup.
Super spies is a standard part of the RevolutionDCM mod. I am not sure how this relates to Second Revolution, but if you are building on top of RevDCM, you already have the code.
ScavengerType
Warlord
man that's brilliant. I could have a unique promotion for each of the unit types which defines what missions they could use as well as other special stats that I may want to manipulate of theirs as well as some from the normal promotions.
I looked at RevDCM and though some of it's parts seem appealing, some also seem like they would conflict with the closed nature of the predetermined diplomatic and (lack of)map development inherent in Second Rev. Does it have a menu at the start that requests what components of the mod you would like to activate?
I looked at RevDCM and though some of it's parts seem appealing, some also seem like they would conflict with the closed nature of the predetermined diplomatic and (lack of)map development inherent in Second Rev. Does it have a menu at the start that requests what components of the mod you would like to activate?
ScavengerType
Warlord
Just got through looking thoroughly at your thread and RevDCM.
First with revdcm, I think the only module that seems problematic is the revolution mod itself. All other parts of the mod would be workable. I'm going to do some playtesting to see how problematic Rev would be to the mod dynamics, otherwise I am inclined to look at it. Also I am concerned, some of the components of the mod were unfinished, would using this mod as an exoskeleton for my mod cause stability problems or would I later have to mess around with updating and porting whatever change I made into the new revDCM version? If I don't get an answer here I will ask in the revdcm forum.
Now I am not familiar with dune terminology, from your thread but I can see some of the questions you posted in this thread look interesting. If I may contribute:
1: FFH seems to use negative culture values from what Ahriman said aid bout Loki, so it is likely that you could take the scripting for GA's mission and make the value negative. However it is likely that you should consider making it a % of culture perhaps making the # variable coded to take the culture variable and multiply it by -.05 (for 5%). If you wanted you could even do this mission as a two part menu for different percentages.
I am thinking of this as a mission for second rev, so I would definitely work on this with or/and give my product to you.
2: get a hold of someone who knows FFH SDK and see what they can tell you about the code. The diplomacy events will require your additions.
3: If you figure out the second part of 2 you will be able to do this easily. I'm not personally interested in coding either, but would consider using 3 softened as a unique mission for Canada.
4: It would take looking at the culture dynamic for RevDCM, but if it is adopted for second rev I'd be in on looking at this.
5: At fist I contemplated this as well, but Ahriman is right, having a skill that decreased EP cost would be obscenely unbalanced. In my design I've considered making specific missions for specific unit types in second rev cheaper, but for this I simply planned to clone the normal missions and link them to the unique promotion. You could do this with some promotions, for better balance.
Also it should be noted that as I understand the improvise promotion gives you a bonus towards having been in the city an extra turn which effectively reduces the EP cost. You could look at manipulating this, or dissecting it's traits into another promotion.
6: Take the script for turning the spy into a specialist and add code telling it if the spy has promotion x create building x which creates the bonus you want. Also if you can un-specialist this spy tell it to remove the building on this event. This will be irritatingly time-consuming to code if you were to try to create many instances of bonuses, I wouldn't touch it.
7: It seems like workers do this all the time with improvements (which are similar in SDK), I don't think that the espionage menu would change the dynamics of the activation/deactivation of techs. I may look into this later... maybe.
I'm considdering making a mission remove a unit promotion and exp.
As well I'd like to make a new mission for missionary units to remove a non-state religion. Preferably with some ep cost and over a time delay. I think I can do this but I'm unsure how to remove a religion or where I'd look for that.
First with revdcm, I think the only module that seems problematic is the revolution mod itself. All other parts of the mod would be workable. I'm going to do some playtesting to see how problematic Rev would be to the mod dynamics, otherwise I am inclined to look at it. Also I am concerned, some of the components of the mod were unfinished, would using this mod as an exoskeleton for my mod cause stability problems or would I later have to mess around with updating and porting whatever change I made into the new revDCM version? If I don't get an answer here I will ask in the revdcm forum.
Now I am not familiar with dune terminology, from your thread but I can see some of the questions you posted in this thread look interesting. If I may contribute:
1: FFH seems to use negative culture values from what Ahriman said aid bout Loki, so it is likely that you could take the scripting for GA's mission and make the value negative. However it is likely that you should consider making it a % of culture perhaps making the # variable coded to take the culture variable and multiply it by -.05 (for 5%). If you wanted you could even do this mission as a two part menu for different percentages.
I am thinking of this as a mission for second rev, so I would definitely work on this with or/and give my product to you.
2: get a hold of someone who knows FFH SDK and see what they can tell you about the code. The diplomacy events will require your additions.
3: If you figure out the second part of 2 you will be able to do this easily. I'm not personally interested in coding either, but would consider using 3 softened as a unique mission for Canada.
4: It would take looking at the culture dynamic for RevDCM, but if it is adopted for second rev I'd be in on looking at this.
5: At fist I contemplated this as well, but Ahriman is right, having a skill that decreased EP cost would be obscenely unbalanced. In my design I've considered making specific missions for specific unit types in second rev cheaper, but for this I simply planned to clone the normal missions and link them to the unique promotion. You could do this with some promotions, for better balance.
Also it should be noted that as I understand the improvise promotion gives you a bonus towards having been in the city an extra turn which effectively reduces the EP cost. You could look at manipulating this, or dissecting it's traits into another promotion.
6: Take the script for turning the spy into a specialist and add code telling it if the spy has promotion x create building x which creates the bonus you want. Also if you can un-specialist this spy tell it to remove the building on this event. This will be irritatingly time-consuming to code if you were to try to create many instances of bonuses, I wouldn't touch it.
7: It seems like workers do this all the time with improvements (which are similar in SDK), I don't think that the espionage menu would change the dynamics of the activation/deactivation of techs. I may look into this later... maybe.
I'm considdering making a mission remove a unit promotion and exp.
As well I'd like to make a new mission for missionary units to remove a non-state religion. Preferably with some ep cost and over a time delay. I think I can do this but I'm unsure how to remove a religion or where I'd look for that.
Not sure why this isn't included with Super Spies...
http://www.filefront.com/14905709/Espionage.rar/
Espionage build process (allows a city to build espionage points)
http://www.filefront.com/14905709/Espionage.rar/
Espionage build process (allows a city to build espionage points)
davidlallen
Deity
It is included in RevDCM. I am not sure that super spies can be easily integrated to 3.19 on its own anymore, but RevDCM 2.6 or 2.7 works and contains this feature.
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