[BtS] Diversica

[mamba]

Amazing! Thanks!
How do I search only for maps/scenarios that work with Diversica on this site?

But thank you very much this is exactly what I was looking for!

Not sure any work out of the box (I adjusted those other ones as well). Your best bet would be ones prepared for 50 civs and only using standard civs / leaders.

If this is true, they should work, any other map needs some minor adjustments (5 - 10 minutes of work or so, really nothing major).

Compare the source maps to the ones I made from them using a diff tool to see what needs to be done

Spoiler :

changes to work with 50 civs

- you need BeginTeam entries for the IDs up to 49 (0 to 49 = 50 civs)
- you need BeginPlayer entries for Teams up to 49
- you need to change the barbarian units /cities from ID 18 to 50 (UnitOwner=18 and CityOwner=18)

optional changes specific to Diversica (if the map has specific civs, not random civs)

in the BeginPlayer entries for used civs (i.e. not the 18 - 49 you added, as they are unused)

- set FlagDecal= to the flag used by Diversica
- set WhiteFlag=1
- change ArtStyle= if there is a more specific one

 

[Giraffe]

Not sure any work out of the box (I adjusted those other ones as well). Your best bet would be ones prepared for 50 civs and only using standard civs / leaders.

If this is true, they should work, any other map needs some minor adjustments (5 - 10 minutes of work or so, really nothing major).

Compare the source maps to the ones I made from them using a diff tool to see what needs to be done

Spoiler :

changes to work with 50 civs

- you need BeginTeam entries for the IDs up to 49 (0 to 49 = 50 civs)
- you need BeginPlayer entries for Teams up to 49
- you need to change the barbarian units /cities from ID 18 to 50 (UnitOwner=18 and CityOwner=18)

optional changes specific to Diversica (if the map has specific civs, not random civs)

in the BeginPlayer entries for used civs (i.e. not the 18 - 49 you added, as they are unused)

- set FlagDecal= to the flag used by Diversica
- set WhiteFlag=1
- change ArtStyle= if there is a more specific one

I've had a lot of fun with these maps now :3

but i'm really struggling because after I play the game for a long time it starts to lag insanely and take about 30s-1min per turn. It even does this when I run the game in 1024x1280 AND in 256 colours!
Madness!

 

[mamba]

but i'm really struggling because after I play the game for a long time it starts to lag insanely and take about 30s-1min per turn. It even does this when I run the game in 1024x1280 AND in 256 colours!
Madness!

Not really sure what causes Civ to use up a lot of memory, i.e. whether screen resolution and colors really make much difference.

I doubt color depth does, as the skins still use all colors, so the RAM use should be the same unless civ somehow creates 256 color versions from them in the background.

I doubt screen resolution really makes much of a difference either, all it does is have less units on screen at the same time.

I assume your best bet would be to have fewer civs and leaderheads installed. But that too is a wild guess, I am not sure if it really makes any difference if there are civs / LHs which are not being used by the current game but still exist in XML.

Does anyone know the best way to reduce the memory footprint (other than reduce the number of unit graphics, which this mod really is all about) ?

 

[Refar]

The number of installed Leaders and Civs might slowdown startup but not the actual gameplay. In general (under somewhat simplified assumptions) this is also true for every diversity mod.

Just think about it: are there actually more diverse units in modern than medieval era? Even if so, it is not as many more, to make turns go from 10 to 5000 seconds during late game.
Also, while doing the AI turn, most of the action is of screen anyway.

So while reducing the texture resolution, effects and shaders quality does help a bit and turning of animations helps even a bit more (while setting it to 256 colors is - if it has any effect at all - harmful, if the system is forced to to resample everything) this can't be the solution.

The trouble is, that some of the games routines scale very badly with the number of cities and units in the current game (nothing graphical - actual unit instances on the map, not unique artstyles). Think path calculations, updating trade routes, checks if certain squares are blocked, obscure AI stuffs (which includes lot's of everything above).... Powerful late game economies churning out hordes of units on large fully settled maps cause a lot of these computations in an exponential (or at least highly polynomial) manner.

And there is nothing, that can be done about it, other than making it so there is less of anything by playing smaller maps. Unless we are talking about old hardware - and i mean really ancient, my 'gaming PC' was 10 years old (just passed away recently) - you probably are talking about Huge mapsize. I myself was a fan of huge maps, so i do understand why;
But in the end, it is better you really enjoy a game with nice unit graphics on 'just' a standard map, than to be struggling with a ugly and still infuriatingly slow endgame on a huge one.

On a sidenote, one line of 'bad' python code can cause a lot more slowdown than all the diverse units together. i.e. overrides of frequently called methods related to units paths (like if it can pass some terrain) are very costly, as they are called upon countless times on every turn (and again, the get even more costly the larger your map). So - depending on your personal preferences of course - it might help more to remove some gameplay mechanics mods, than to pass on a cosmetic mod like this.

 

[mamba]

The trouble is, that some of the games routines scale very badly with the number of cities and units in the current game (nothing graphical - actual unit instances on the map, not unique artstyles). Think path calculations, updating trade routes, checks if certain squares are blocked, obscure AI stuffs (which includes lot's of everything above).... Powerful late game economies churning out hordes of units on large fully settled maps cause a lot of these computations in an exponential (or at least highly polynomial) manner.

And there is nothing, that can be done about it, other than making it so there is less of anything by playing smaller maps. Unless we are talking about old hardware - and i mean really ancient, my 'gaming PC' was 10 years old (just passed away recently) - you probably are talking about Huge mapsize. I myself was a fan of huge maps, so i do understand why;

Thanks, so simply put you should have similar slowdown in regular Civ given the same mapsizes, as this is really what determines turn times (number of units on map etc.).

If the same slowdown does not happen in regular Civ, then the cause must be in the RevDCM part, rather than the XML part Diversica adds to it.

Good to know, even if it does not resolve the problem

 

[Giraffe]

The number of installed Leaders and Civs might slowdown startup but not the actual gameplay. In general (under somewhat simplified assumptions) this is also true for every diversity mod.

Just think about it: are there actually more diverse units in modern than medieval era? Even if so, it is not as many more, to make turns go from 10 to 5000 seconds during late game.
Also, while doing the AI turn, most of the action is of screen anyway.

[...]

On a sidenote, one line of 'bad' python code can cause a lot more slowdown than all the diverse units together. i.e. overrides of frequently called methods related to units paths (like if it can pass some terrain) are very costly, as they are called upon countless times on every turn (and again, the get even more costly the larger your map). So - depending on your personal preferences of course - it might help more to remove some gameplay mechanics mods, than to pass on a cosmetic mod like this.

Oh yes absolutely, I know it's not a Diversica issue.
I hate to be a complaining gamer but I really wish the developers of Civ had considered this when making the game, it's ridiculous that someone with 8GBs of RAM and a modern PC gets lag on a turn-based tile game from 2005.
:<
I still love diversica though :3


Does anyone know if it's possible to play a scenario that isn't moded with a mod? Or are there any scenarios that are Diversica-friendly? There are so many scenarios I love but I feel like I have to have Diversica running, because it's just so good and authentic looking!

 

[mamba]

Oh yes absolutely, I know it's not a Diversica issue.

ah, I thought it was one

I hate to be a complaining gamer but I really wish the developers of Civ had considered this when making the game, it's ridiculous that someone with 8GBs of RAM and a modern PC gets lag on a turn-based tile game from 2005.

well, CPU speed should be better, RAM however is another issue. On Win32 you can basically access 2GB with an app, so if you have more that is wasted (technically, more than 4 is wasted, but no app can use more than 2GB).

Unless they created civ as a 64bit app, it would never access > 4GB RAM, so it might be because it is old that it does not handle that very well

I still love diversica though :3

good to know

Does anyone know if it's possible to play a scenario that isn't moded with a mod? Or are there any scenarios that are Diversica-friendly? There are so many scenarios I love but I feel like I have to have Diversica running, because it's just so good and authentic looking!

I essentially answered that before for Diversica (a few posts above).

In more general terms, any map that can be played with standard Cv can be used with any mod that also has those civs / leaders (i.e. does not replace / remove some) and also uses the default 18 civs (not more, which most having a DLL probably do).

If the map is not just a map but a 'scenario' this might become more complex, as you also would need to know that all buildings / units which are on the map are also available in the mod and not removed / replaced. But for most mods it should be pretty obvious if the are just adding things or more of a complete overhaul.

I would still recommend trying to change the map accordingly, it is relatively easy.

Which scenarios are you thinking of ?

 

[RPG]

I'm not at my gaming pc at the moment so I can't check with one but last night I noticed a pink button, it was one of the leaderheads.

 

[RPG]

Minor bug: The unit upgrade chart in the Sevolopedia is blank. Doesnt affect gameplay at all &to doesn't really bother me but I thought you should know.

By the way, love the new civ!

 

[mamba]

I'm not at my gaming pc at the moment so I can't check with one but last night I noticed a pink button, it was one of the leaderheads.

Did you find that leader ? I was looking into it and found one, but that should not even have shown up in the first place (due to a separate issue).

Minor bug: The unit upgrade chart in the Sevolopedia is blank. Doesnt affect gameplay at all &to doesn't really bother me but I thought you should know.

I believe this is because of the mod being modular, even though I am not sure why this makes a difference.

By the way, love the new civ!

Thanks

 

[RPG]

Alp Arslan is the one without a button.

Also, I was playing a games as Spain and there is something wrong with the Sanish musketman & rifleman.

 

[mamba]

Patch 1.95a released

 

[RPG]

Patch 1.95a released

Thanks.

I found a couple of more errors/red blobs as units for some Korean units, I post which ones tonight when I'm at my gaming pc.

 

[mamba]

Thanks.

I found a couple of more errors/red blobs as units for some Korean units, I post which ones tonight when I'm at my gaming pc.

Hm, checked that and somehow the folder with the modern units was moved into the wrong place... looks like I need another patch

 

[mamba]

Patch 1.95b released.

 

[RPG]

Patch 1.95b released.

As always....Thank you.

 

[mamba]

Patch 1.95c released (the korean modern armor was way too big...)

 

[RPG]

Patch 1.95c released (the korean modern armor was way too big...)

Thanks for the patches. You may need one more...the Iroquois paratrooper is a red blob.

Quick question : What happened to Switzerland? Dufour is one the list of leaders? But Switzerland is not on the list of civs.

 

[mamba]

Thanks for the patches. You may need one more...the Iroquois paratrooper is a red blob.

Quick question : What happened to Switzerland? Dufour is one the list of leaders? But Switzerland is not on the list of civs.

Hm, some of these blob issues have been in there a while, surprised you now stumble across them (and no one did before). Oh well, better late than never

Switzerland I messed up recently by removing von Wyss (as the LH was just a recolored Washington) but keeping him as a prerequisite, instead of switching that condition to Dufour.

 

[RPG]

They're not civs I usually play as. But I'm trying to get through a game with each civ.

Thanks again for the patches, if I notice anything else, I'll let you know.