[BtS MOD] Wolfshanze 1850-1920 Enhancement Mod v2.0

[mamba]

You can upgrade a Galleon to a Submarine?

My mistake, a Caravel can upgrade to it

 

[Wodan]

I've done that before (upgraded caravels to subs), when I didn't have Oil. Prioritizing Sub tech is your only option when you can't get oil. Trying to fight destroyers with anything less than subs is a losing proposition.

Of course Wolfshanze's mod changes all those dynamics.

Wodan

 

[Wolfshanze]

I've done that before, when I didn't have Oil. Prioritizing Sub tech is your only option when you can't get oil. Trying to fight destroyers with anything less than subs is a losing proposition.

Of course Wolfshanze's mod changes all those dynamics.

Wodan

Yeah... some coal fired Dreadnoughts should solve that pesky destroyer problem!

 

[Xenomorph]

Riflemen don't get a flat 25% bonus against Grenadiers... they get a 25% bonus when defending against Grenadiers. There's a differance. This represents the historical shift of warfare from offense to defense at this time... when the Rifle began to appear on the stage, it took-over most wars... cavalry charges, major offensives, etc, etc, tended to bog-down in most wars once the rifle appeared on the scene. Longer, more accurate fire, and no real counter until tanks and airplanes (or bigger artillery) shows the focus of warfare favoring the defense...

I don't suppose you changed the Strategy and Civilopedia text to reflect the fact that you shouldn't be using grenadiers to get rid of Riflemen, did you?

 

[Wolfshanze]

I don't suppose you changed the Strategy and Civilopedia text to reflect the fact that you shouldn't be using grenadiers to get rid of Riflemen, did you?

Can't recall off the top of my head... I made the Grenadier change some time ago... it's actually high percentage that I did make said change, but I'd have to double-check... I often do make changes to the Civilopedia and Strategy section any time I make changes... like Transports holding 5 instead of 4 units in the strategy section I changed.

Edit:
Just checked... yes... I took care of this some time ago... the civilopedia specifically mentions Grenadiers are good in sieges, not against riflemen... like I said... I usually do ensure the civilopedia is current with any changes I make... it's already fixed and has been since I made the change.

 

[dutchking]

Hey I checked back again,
May try this out.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Hey I checked back again,
May try this out.

If you want to try it out, wait for v2.6 which will release this weekend.

 

[dutchking]

Ok, just want a little peak first.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Available for download now... Wolfshanze Mod v2.6...

***********
New in v2.6
***********
Added two new unit classes:
Light Bomber
Supercarrier

Ships-of-the-Line now get 50% bonus against all Age of Sail units instead of just against Frigates.

Minor graphical enhancement to Technology Advisor progression chart.

Various redone custom unit buttons.

New models/skins for:
German Helgoland class Dreadnought
English Canopus class Pre-Dreadnought


***********
Notes
***********
The change-list sounds somewhat small, but a lot of work went into adding those two new units, especially the light bomber category, which is actually a fairly decent power-shift for how carriers can/should be used. The Zeppelin (a somewhat pesky WWI-era bomber) now upgrades directly to the light bomber, and the light bomber is now king of the naval unit attack... use them with carriers to help gain control of the sea.

Not compatible with Wolfshanze Mod v2.5 and earlier saved games... do NOT try and continue any saved game with this mod, it won't work! If you value your saved game and want to finish it, use your current version of the Wolfshanze Mod before installing this version.

 

[dutchking]

Awesome, I'll download later.

 

[Xenomorph]

Ships-of-the-Line now get 50% bonus against all Age of Sail units instead of just against Frigates.

I would contest this. Large vessels like Ship-of-the-Lines were hard to maneuver, so they had a tough time with smaller ships. While a small ship, on its own, would not be able to take a Ship-of-the-Line, the Ships-of-the-Line would not likely be able to hit the smaller ship. Put up an unescorted (or poorly escorted) Ship-of-the-Line against several of those small and fast vessels, and you have yourself a lost Ship-of-the-Line.
On another note, I haven't downloaded the mod yet, but is there a modern upgrade for the Light Bomber, or does that chain end after the WWI/WWII era?

 

[Wolfshanze]

I would contest this. Large vessels like Ship-of-the-Lines were hard to maneuver, so they had a tough time with smaller ships. While a small ship, on its own, would not be able to take a Ship-of-the-Line, the Ships-of-the-Line would not likely be able to hit the smaller ship. Put up an unescorted (or poorly escorted) Ship-of-the-Line against several of those small and fast vessels, and you have yourself a lost Ship-of-the-Line.

That's actually a nice line of thought... I can see the logic in that argument... except one small problem...

So far as I know, it's never happened in history once. Ships-of-the-Line are monstrosities of the sail age. Frigates (which they naturally get the bonus against) are swift and maneuverable ships themselves... so why would something smaller/older have a better chance of bagging a SotL then a Frigate? Certainly not a Privateer (under default Civ4 rules, the BEST Age of Sail ship to take-on a SotL other then another SotL). There isn't a single... not a one documented case in history where a privateer took-out a national ship of the line... not one. You could argue that a SotL should just have a Str-12... but for Ironclad reasons it doesn't... but a Privateer or a Caravel (and certainly not a Trireme) is going to take-out a SotL with BETTER odds then a Frigate.

On another note, I haven't downloaded the mod yet, but is there a modern upgrade for the Light Bomber, or does that chain end after the WWI/WWII era?

I'm going with the historical replacement for the light bomber... what actually happened in history... the light bomber of WWII was itself replaced with the multi-role jet fighter of today's world... F-16s, F-15 Strike Eagles, Tornados... the list goes on... all these fighters double as light ground attack platforms... the light bomber just re-evolved into the modern fighter... I also gave modern jet fighters a small (10%) bonus against naval targets, as modern carriers mostly carry multi-role fighters anyways (think F-18).

I've seen a lot of modders make two types of jet fighters... air-to-air and ground attack... while there are certainly arguments to some of these examples (A-10, etc), the world is really moving away from specialized ground attack aircraft and embracing multi-role jet fighters... I don't have early and late jet fighters, only modern ones, so I'm embracing the modern air doctrine... multi-role jet fighters... I'm retired USAF, so I like to think I know something about current air combat doctrine.

Long story short (too late), the WWII light bomber gets upgraded to the modern jet fighter... NOT modern jet bombers.

 

[Xenomorph]

The Battle of Hangö (also called Battle of Gangut), 1714.

 

[Wolfshanze]

The Battle of Hangö (also called Battle of Gangut), 1714.

I fail to see your point... the largest ship in the Battle of Hangö was a single Swedish Pram... most of the battle was fought with Galleys (similar to Civ4 Galleasses equivelant)... there was exactly ZERO Ships of the Line in that battle.

Try again.

 

[Wodan]

That's actually a nice line of thought... I can see the logic in that argument... except one small problem...

So far as I know, it's never happened in history once. Ships-of-the-Line are monstrosities of the sail age. Frigates (which they naturally get the bonus against) are swift and maneuverable ships themselves... so why would something smaller/older have a better chance of bagging a SotL then a Frigate? Certainly not a Privateer (under default Civ4 rules, the BEST Age of Sail ship to take-on a SotL other then another SotL). There isn't a single... not a one documented case in history where a privateer took-out a national ship of the line... not one. You could argue that a SotL should just have a Str-12... but for Ironclad reasons it doesn't... but a Privateer or a Caravel (and certainly not a Trireme) is going to take-out a SotL with BETTER odds then a Frigate.

Personally I would agree a fast oared ship (e.g., trireme or dromon) would have a better chance against the SotL.

Wodan

 

[Wolfshanze]

Personally I would agree a fast oared ship (e.g., trireme or dromon) would have a better chance against the SotL.

Good luck getting anywhere close to a SotL with that Bronze Ram before being blown to smithereens.

There is a reason the Royal Navy employed SotL at Trafalgar and not bronze-tipped triremes or galleys.

I can't believe folks are afraid a SotL will do what it's supposed to do in the Age of Sail... dominate the waves. Default Civ4 has Privateers having a very decent shot of sinking a SotL (better odds then a Frigate), which is positevely and absolutely ABSURD beyond belief. There isn't a single case in recorded history of a Pirate sinking or capturing a SotL... in-fact, they would always run at the sight of one... and for good reason... those things HURT!

If you are all offended at the thought of a SotL being hands-down the most powerful ship in the Age of Sail, by all means... change the stat back to affecting frigates only, and use pirate ships to sink SotL to your hearts content... I made this mod for me, and for me, I like a little realism in my gaming... that would mean a SotL is the scariest thing out there during the age of sail.

 

[Pendragon65]

Hi Wolfshandze downloaded your Mod previous AM great stuff there,looking forward to some proper gunboat diplomacy. The Post Civilwar, Pre Great War Era is so neglected by designers great work cheers mate.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Hi Wolfshandze downloaded your Mod previous AM great stuff there,looking forward to some proper gunboat diplomacy. The Post Civilwar, Pre Great War Era is so neglected by designers great work cheers mate.

Ah yes... speak softly and carry a big stick... don't forget to sail your Great White Fleet of Pre-Dreadnoughts around the globe!

 

[Pendragon65]

Civ being Civ & being a Brit i think it will have to be The Grand Fleet I will leave the Great White Fleet to my American friends.

 

[SlimDuece]

Just started my first game and love is so far. This is just what the doctor ordered. Is this something that I can merge with Revolutions? Mind you I have no idea how to do that Im just askin.