[BtS MOD] Wolfshanze 1850-1920 Enhancement Mod v2.0

[Wolfshanze]

A plain fast Question.
Do you have different aircrafts for carriers and land.... ????
You know what I mean. Having this issue is more fun IMHO since you have to build aircrafts specially to land on carriers. Of course if you got the extra torpedo-bomber to go heavy vs ships....

I know what you mean, and I kinda sorta agree, but the answer is no.

A fighter is a fighter, and a light bomber is a light bomber... there is no differance (in my mod) between naval and land versions.

One has to remember this is a very abstract mod covering from ancient times to modern times (over 6,000 years of units)... so numbers/stats-wise, there's little leeway to distinguish anything more then one fighter for WWII era and one light bomber for the WWII era.

I could make identical land and naval versions of the WWII fighter and light bomber, but what would be the point? Both the (smart) human and (dumb) AI would build nothing but the navalised version anyways (if the stats were the same, but one could go on carriers and the other couldn't, there'd be no reason to build the land-only version).

I did, however, choose to use single-engined light bombers in my mod for all countries to make them more useable/believable for carrier use however, because if I chose two-engine light bombers, it would be a little harder to believe that many of them would be useable/effective on a carrier.

Thanks for the question... hope my answer makes some sense.

 

[arstal]

One question - why is it that jet fighters have lethal bombardment but not jet bombers?

 

[Wolfshanze]

One question - why is it that jet fighters have lethal bombardment but not jet bombers?

Completely differant combat roles... tactical vs strategic... plus, in my view, significant gameplay implications...

As it stands now, you can use repeated airstrikes by a single lethal air unit, the light bomber or jet fighter to kill ONE unit.

If, however, I gave lethality to bombers and/or jet bombers, you'd have a single unit that could kill MANY units at once... if you had four or five bombers in range of an enemy city and those units had lethality, you could wipe out the entire defending force without having to set a single boot on the ground.

As it is now in the Wolfshanze Mod, you can severely damage a lot of units with bombers, but you can't kill them all... of course you could soften the entire city with bombers, then kill with tactical bombers (light bombers or jet fighters).

Personally, I think if I gave bombers and jet bombers lethality, it would both make them extremely overkill units (ie: too powerful), and make the use of light bombers and jet fighters in the ground attack role, completely moot.

 

[arstal]

Yeah, that's why I said jet bombers and not bombers. Maybe eliminate the collat damage on jet bombers, but increase their damage, or give them a MOAB mission?

 

[Wolfshanze]

Yeah, that's why I said jet bombers and not bombers. Maybe eliminate the collat damage on jet bombers, but increase their damage, or give them a MOAB mission?

Oh, you mean make Jet Bombers identical to Jet Fighters?

Jet Fighters are already almost identical to what you just described... I like keeping the roles differant... tactical and strategic roles... there's simply no way I'm going to give a unit with collateral damage capabilities the additional ability to whipe out multiple units with a single strike... and "dumbing down" a Jet Bomber's collateral damage ability to make it only effect one unit would make it less-usefull then WWII bombers (in many ways) and not really any differant from the Jet Strike Fighter.

I don't really see a need to give Jet Bombers lethality... if you want, it's a simple fix in XML on your end, but I like the way it's balanced and "roled" right now... I really have zero plans on giving collateral damage units lethality, or taking collateral damage away from bombers.

 

[arstal]

Ah, I thought collateral couldn't kill lethality- though it is realistic given the Highway of Death in first Gulf War- it is also a playability issue.

 

[Agent327]

Ah, I thought collateral couldn't kill lethality- though it is realistic given the Highway of Death in first Gulf War- it is also a playability issue.

What are you saying - I mean, apart from the fact that it isn't a sentence?

 

[Chuggi]

I think it is a sentence, it just makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[arstal]

Thought collateral damage couldn't kill units.

There is evidence of jet bombers doing lethal damage IRL- first GW, Highway of Death.

 

[Wolfshanze]

There is evidence of jet bombers doing lethal damage IRL- first GW, Highway of Death.

Ummm... you're not seriously trying to tell me that you think it might be possible to kill someone with a bomb are you? There might (on a long-shot) exist some proof of a bomb killing someone even before the first Gulf War.

I've repeatedly stated the gameplay reasons why I've made things the way they are. If the best you can come up with is that there might be some sort of historical referance (no matter how iffy) that it's feasible a bomb from a bomber might kill a human being (I'm not going to touch that statement), I don't have anything more to say on the subject.

 

[Wodan]

First rule of game design: is the discussion about story or gameplay?

Two very different things.

Wodan

ps: i.e., I agree with Wolfshanze.

 

[Root Beer]

I have one small suggestion regarding the Grenadiers, (from page 11-14?)

Note:I set all musketman with a +25% attack vs. mounted units, so musketman can kill mounted units on the attack, but not on defense(for sake of balance)
Strength:12, +25% city attack*, flat out -20% vs. mounted units(throwing those grenades at a fast target would not be easy.)
*to attack garrison longbows and muskets
(I think grenadiers fit in more with the pre-rifling gunpowder units musketman, cuirassier, cannon.)
This will make your pre-rifling gunpowder SOD: Musketman, Grenadiers, Cuirassiers, and Cannons.
Tech requirements: Gunpowder and *Chemistry. *To force the AI to Reasearch Military science, instead of skipping it, to get cuirassiers to counter your grenadiers, or to force YOU to reasearch M. Science
Upgrades to Rifleman, just as the musketman.
Rifleman keeps thier defense against grenadiers (I like that change)
Grenadiers CAN be countered by a cuirassier or two.

I made these changes for myself and there seems to be no balance issues.

As for the aircraft, they a fine the way they are now. I would not want to counter a swarm of flies off my Battleship with 20 or more destroyers for interception(I have had many fighters slip past a horde of destroyers many times). The game is balanced as-is regarding aircraft.

Anyway I love this mod. My favorite time period

EDIT:changed attack strength and city attack typo.

 

[rkade8583]

I'm not reading through so many pages just to find this answer so I'll just ask. Is there plans to include more UUs to match the German's number? I love my German blood but we don't NEED no special treatment to kick butt

 

[cemo1956]

I was only thinking on NOT see the Stealth bombers and heavy bombers on carriers, and I think you got this with light-bombers. Then of course the Heavy bombers must be restricted from carriers....

Did I get this ?

 

[Wolfshanze]

I'm not reading through so many pages just to find this answer so I'll just ask. Is there plans to include more UUs to match the German's number? I love my German blood but we don't NEED no special treatment to kick butt

Germany only has TWO UU's with "special" abilities, and they were both toned-down over the original.

In default Civ4, Germany's UU is the WWII Panzer Tank which gets a 50% bonus vs enemy tanks... in the Wolfshanze Mod, Germany gets two UU's, the WWII Tank and Heavy Tank... each of which get a 30% bonus against enemy tanks... so while there is technically two German UU's with special abilities, neither is as effective as the original UU was.

Any other UU you see for Germany is basically the same as the unit it replaces... the unit is identical statistically to other units, it just has a differant name (like Fallshirmjaegers are identical statistically to Paratroopers).

There are a few other civs I gave two UU's too, most of them get a bigger boost then Germany does... the Persians have two, the Vikings have two, etc, etc... come to think about it... if anything, the German UU's are actually some of the weakest in the game... maybe I should give Germany more to catch up with the civs with better UUs!

I was only thinking on NOT see the Stealth bombers and heavy bombers on carriers, and I think you got this with light-bombers. Then of course the Heavy bombers must be restricted from carriers....

Did I get this ?

Carrier Capable:
Early Fighters
Fighters
Light Bombers
Jet Fighters

NOT Carrier Capable:
Airships
Early Bombers
Bombers
Jet Bombers
Stealth Bombers

 

[arstal]

Ummm... you're not seriously trying to tell me that you think it might be possible to kill someone with a bomb are you? There might (on a long-shot) exist some proof of a bomb killing someone even before the first Gulf War.

I've repeatedly stated the gameplay reasons why I've made things the way they are. If the best you can come up with is that there might be some sort of historical referance (no matter how iffy) that it's feasible a bomb from a bomber might kill a human being (I'm not going to touch that statement), I don't have anything more to say on the subject.

Basically I'm saying that by today's standards of bombing, it's possible for strategic bombing to entirely destroy units from full organization. That's the scale I assume Civ is at. I don't think that could happen in WWII as easily, though airpower could decimate units to the point of ineffectiveness. I understand if you kept it the way it is for gameplay reasons. I thought you wanted to keep making air units more powerful though.

 

[Tlalynet]

Immortals with free march isnt it? I havent played as them with you're mod, but I got in an early game fight with them once and I thought, wow, where are all these march units coming from. It was scary. Its a good UU, thanks for that.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Immortals with free march isnt it? I havent played as them with you're mod, but I got in an early game fight with them once and I thought, wow, where are all these march units coming from. It was scary. Its a good UU, thanks for that.

Well yeah... Immortals never lose strength of numbers right? One man falls, another takes his place... sounds like "March" to me.

The other Persian special is the Scythe Chariot... so yeah, the Persians got a boost, and are definately blessed with more useful UU's then Germany's two lame ones... anyone who thinks I overloaded the Germans hasn't bothered to check what I actually did do with the mod.

 

[arstal]

Well yeah... Immortals never lose strength of numbers right? One man falls, another takes his place... sounds like "March" to me.

The other Persian special is the Scythe Chariot... so yeah, the Persians got a boost, and are definately blessed with more useful UU's then Germany's two lame ones... anyone who thinks I overloaded the Germans hasn't bothered to check what I actually did do with the mod.

Maybe as a boost to Germany, make their UB give an XP bonus to tanks, planes and artillery, like 1 or 2 free XP?

 

[Jeff1787]

Wolfshanze...This Mod is absolutely fantastic, thank you for all of your hard work