[BtS MOD] Wolfshanze 1850-1920 Enhancement Mod v2.0

[Wolfshanze]

To summerize: I only wanted to know from wolfshanze (one of the forums naval experts), if the term Battleship was used for a class of ships and the successors since 1880 (wiki) or more general for a longer period of time. (for example i had called a "ship of the line" and the first ironclads also battleship)

Okay... sorry, I missed this while I was typing my previous reply.

You can speak to any naval historian... the 19th century was a confusing mess really until the Pre-Dreadnoughts showed up at the tail-end of the 19th century.

Maybe that's why game companies almost always totally ignore 19th century naval warfare (post-Napoleonic).

For hundreds of years, naval ship design was farely static... varying sizes of frigates and ships of the line followed fairly standard patterns of large wooden sailing vessels with varying broadside cannon batteries.

When the 19th century hit, shortly after the Napoleonic wars, things rapidly started changing, in design, technology and use.

First came the steam engine, then came the ironclads, followed by turrets and the ram returned, and then torpedoes... it wasn't until the standardization of design with the Pre-Dreadnoughts that some sanity came to ship design.

The mid 1800s was full of ship designs that bared no resemblance to the preceding or following ship class... ships were launched already obsolete, as each ship built tended to outdate the previous, not to mention older ships that were still being used either in original or modified (with iron and/or steam) additions.

If you're looking for a "standard" ship name for vessel classes of the mid 1800s, there are none, because there was no standard ship design of the mid 1800s... it's a very confusing time in the history of naval warfare, and pretty much any name you choose could/would be assigned to a ship that was made during the time.

Here's a partial list of some of the more "common" ship classes assigned to ships of the mid 1800s...

Broadside ironclads
Armored sloops
Turret ships
Turret ram
Central battery ships
Monitors
Breastwork monitors
Casemate ironclads
Ironclad frigates
Ironclad cruisers
Ironclad rams
Armored cruisers
Ironclad battleships

The list goes on... but if you could think of a name, it was probably used to define a class of ships in the 1800s. In short, the term "Battleship" was indeed used prior to 1890... though it was hardly a design standard or as widely used as it was after 1890... "Battleship" was used, and thrown around to a variety of ships, but there was no clear design standard prior to 1890.

Does that help clarify it for you?

 

[phungus420]

Wolfshanze,
i have an another couple of ideas:
- land transport unit (automobile) for carriyng infantry to the battlefield with speed 2
- armoured train - very poverful unit (i.e. str 26) but tied to RR (is it possible to get it moving only to railroaded tiles?) and vulnerable to airplanes.

We can create land transports, quite easily in XML actually. The problem is the AI does not know how to use them. So unless wolf knows how to program a new UnitAI_ type, don't expect this one to be coming.

 

[The_Coyote]

yes, thanks a lot (even chaos can make sense)

 

[phungus420]

Fascinating discussion. Where did the convention to distinguish destroyer and cruiser classes come from? Has it always been like now, where destroyers are smaller and cruisers are bigger, or was it more of a mess when the terms started being used?

 

[Wolfshanze]

Fascinating discussion. Where did the convention to distinguish destroyer and cruiser classes come from? Has it always been like now, where destroyers are smaller and cruisers are bigger, or was it more of a mess when the terms started being used?

The Destroyer name:
The emergence of the destroyer was related to the torpedo. The invention of the self-propelled torpedo in the 1860s gave the potential for a nation to destroy a superior enemy battle fleet using only steam launches from which torpedoes could be dropped. Fast boats to carry torpedoes were built and called torpedo boats, and these had developed by the 1880s into little ships of 50-100 tons, fast enough to evade enemy picket boats.

One response to the torpedo boat threat was the building larger ships termed torpedo boat destroyers, soon contracted to simply 'Destroyer'.

Once destroyers became more than just "torpedo boat destroyers" it was realized that they were also ideal to perform the role of torpedo boats themselves, so they were fitted with torpedo tubes as well as guns. At that time, and even into WWI, the only function of destroyers was to protect their own battle fleet from enemy torpedo attacks, and to make such attacks on the battleships of the enemy. The task of escorting merchant convoys came later when they became effective anti-submarine hunters.


The Cruiser name:
Historically a cruiser was not a type of ship but a warship role. Cruisers were ships—often frigates or smaller vessels—which were assigned a role largely independent from the fleet. Typically this might involve missions such as raiding enemy merchant shipping. In the late 19th century the term 'cruiser' came to mean ships designed to fulfill such a role, and from the 1890s to the 1950s a 'cruiser' was a warship larger than a destroyer but smaller than a battleship. For much of 19th century and the first half of the 20th, the cruiser was a navy's long-range "force projection" weapon, while the larger ships stayed nearer to home. Their main role was to attack enemy merchant vessels, so much so that this task came to be called cruiser warfare. Other roles included reconnaissance, and cruisers were often attached to the battlefleet.


***

I just hope the discussion of the evolution of naval warfare and the inclusion of the "missing classes" in the Wolfshanze Mod help folks better understand said evolution of naval warfare. It always upsets me when game companies just skip-over major progress in design like Firaxis did with Civ4's naval warfare... the jump from Frigates to modern Battleships has always been disturbing to me and was my first goal to correct when getting the game.

 

[Wolfshanze]

One last thing about the "ages" of naval warfare in the 19th century, especially in regard to the Ironclad era...

Various sources define the "Ironclad Era" differently. However, there are reasons for defining it along these lines:

* to 1815: The Age of Fighting Sail
* 1815-1855: The Advent of Steam
* 1855-1880: The Ironclad Era
* 1880-1905: The Pre-Dreadnought Period
* after 1906: The Dreadnoughts

The obvious break points in this scheme are the end of the Napoleonic Wars (obviously the greatest sea wars of the Age of Fighting Sail) and the commissioning of the first steam warship Demologos in 1815; the bombardment of Kinburn by French ironclads in 1855; and the commissioning of HMS Dreadnought in 1906. With no obvious event to serve as a breakpoint, however, the end of the ironclad period is more difficult to pinpoint.

When one compares the early armored steamers of the 1860s with the last of the "pre-dreadnoughts" in the early 1900s, it is clear that these were very different kinds of warships, produced in very different strategic and tactical environments. Wireless telegraphy (radio), steel armor and construction, quick-firing guns, self-propelled ("automobile") torpedoes, and electric searchlights were in widespread use by the turn of the century; by contrast, none of these were possible (or even generally dreamed of) a mere fifty years earlier. A division of this time into two spans is obviously necessary, but where to draw the line?

The year 1880 works rather well. Mathematically, it divides the 1855-1906 period precisely in two of course, but there are stronger reasons. The last of the Civil War -era ironclads were in active service in the war between Chile and Peru, which ended in 1883 (with the exception of the reactivation of some Civil War monitors by the U.S. during the Spanish-American War, but they were blatantly obsolete by that point). The first use of a self-propelled torpedo in combat occurred in 1877. The first vessel to be classified as an armored cruiser was the Russian General Admiral of 1875. By 1881, armored warships were beginning to sport steel facing on their armor, and steel was becoming an increasingly common element of ship construction. Given that the dividing line is still a bit fuzzy, it is certain that it belongs somewhere between 1877 and 1883; so the mathematical middle of 1800 makes quite a bit of sense.

 

[Agent327]

Once again: excellent explanation, Wolf.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Here's one last tidbit on the matter of ship classes and types for folks who (at a glance) might be better able to grasp the size difference between these ships that you may or may not know alot about.

Below I'm listing typical tonnage displacement of the different ship classes... of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but what I'll list below are "typical" of most ships in that class. Bigger usually means better, except with some of the older ships, they may have been much slower, or had poorer armor or guns... but the bigger the ship, usually the longer the lifespan! Size does often matter! Typically, top-of-the-line ships from a previous era have useful careers as 2nd-class ships in following wars... for instance, most Pre-Dreadnoughts served with distinction in WWI even though Dreadnoughts were top-of-the line ships, and most Dreadnoughts served with distinction in WWII even though Battleships were top-of-the-line ships. Did you know that a German Pre-Dreadnought fired the opening shots of WWII?

Typical class displacement in tons:
Destroyer: 400-2,000 tons
Cruiser: 5,000-15,000 tons
Pre-Dreadnought: 10,000-15,000 tons
Dreadnought: 20,000-30,000 tons
Battleship: 35,000-50,000 tons

 

[Wolfshanze]

Back on the Mod itself...

I have just released a new version of the Custom DLL for use with the Wolfshanze Mod (for those who want to try the mod with a custom DLL)... it's based on Bhruic's v1.21 patch (recently released) and still contains the 40-civ capability along-with support for changes in Global Warming (replaced desertification with nuclear fallout).

As usual, I didn't make these changes (I got help from Xeno)... so I have no idea how stable or unstable this will be... though if you used the old patch with no problems, I imagine you should have similar or better success with the new custom DLL.

The new custom DLL download also includes the updated 34 & 35 civ Earth Maps (including support for the Wolfshanze Mod custom civ colors, custom leaders and Austrian and Poland civs).

The new download can be found in the first post (just scroll-down a bit).

 

[18D]

Hi Wolfshanze,

Excellent, Excellent work on this Mod. I have been playing it for quite a while and my buddy and I have recently been playing it exclusively on multiplayer. We have been getting a lot of CTDs though, mostly toward the end of the games (although we have also completed several games with no game-ending crashes). I'm attaching the last save before the CTD in the event that you have a few minutes to look at it. It might have something to do with someone making peace- the last sound we hear is the "peace horn" and then it locks up and crashes. We've loaded an earlier save 20 minutes prior and still does the same thing at the same place. It is highly possible that it could be something with one or our settings or something but, like I said, we have played a couple of games with no game-ending crashes.

Hopefully you'll come back with something like "your [something easy to fix] does not match, just do [easy fix] and you'll be good".

Again, great job on this. I'm hooked and can't go back to regular BTS!

 

[warriordude]

Maybe an attached save could help with my issue as well. Not sure. I did try playing your mod on my WinXP machine, with the same crash results. At first I thought it was your "Perfectworld" map, as I made it well past where I had been crashing. This time I made it to 1848, and it goes no further.

View attachment Kent AD-1848.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Aeravel]

Hi Wolfshanze,
Again, great job on this. I'm hooked and can't go back to regular BTS!

This mod is my regular BTS. Even did the ini setting so this mod starts up by default. I wish I had found the mod sooner. I can't play BTS without it either.
Hopefully the new DLL will help with the late game CTDs. Thanks for the great tech support Wolfshanze.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Not sure what to say about late-game CTDs... since the game is playing smoothly in early to mid-games, and late games don't seem to CTD on a specific event, unit or time, I doubt it's an issue with XML coding... it just might be some sort of "memory overload" from an overabundance of units and custom graphics, a buggy install, a touchy computer, who knows?

I do, however, keep attempting to find a solution to any problems. I have a new GameCoreDLL based on the very recent release of Bhruic's game patch. I'm currently playtesting it myself (I'm currently in the middle ages with no CTDs), so maybe it will help?

My suggestion at this point would be try playing with the new GameCoreDLL newly available for download in the 1st post of this thread (scroll down a bit). That might help solve some/all of the crash problems. Of course, with a new DLL, you'll probably have to start a new game (probably won't work well with saved games).

 

[warriordude]

I'll give that a try. If Firaxis or whoever owns the rights to this had half a brain they would make you part of the actual paid team, work out the bugs and include your mod as part of a real patch or something. Similar to Rhye's mod. Love your mod, and have probably played more games in the last month or two since I discovered it, than in the year prior. Thanks for your help.

 

[Wolfshanze]

I'll give that a try. If Firaxis or whoever owns the rights to this had half a brain they would make you part of the actual paid team, work out the bugs and include your mod as part of a real patch or something. Similar to Rhye's mod. Love your mod, and have probably played more games in the last month or two since I discovered it, than in the year prior. Thanks for your help.

No problem... just glad you're enjoying the mod.

The next update of the Wolfshanze Mod (v2.72) will include custom movies for the Brandenburg Gate and Trafalgar Square world wonders, as well-as new movies for all the national wonders which you didn't get before (ie: all of them!)... along with more new unit models and the like of-course!

 

[Aeravel]

I have good news on the new DLL. The random crashes aren't happening at all for me anymore. I am only about halfway through the current game so far (middle ages), but it's a huge improvement regarding the crashes and looks like I'll be able to make it through a full game this time.

Are you planning on adding multiple UUs for more civilizations like you've done for Germany and Japan?

 

[Wolfshanze]

Glad to hear the custom DLL is helping solve the crash issues. I may go back to making it standard with the mod if that proves to be the case.

Are you planning on adding multiple UUs for more civilizations like you've done for Germany and Japan?

A common misconception. There are actually few if any cases of "multiple UUs" for nations in the Wolfshanze Mod, other then just fancy names... Japan still only has ONE functionally superior UU (Samurai), any others are just name changes, but stats are the same... Germany has one-and-a-half (I dumbed-down the default Panzer Bonus [was 50%, now 30%], but gave it to two tanks)... any other German "UUs" are actually only name changes (like Paratrooper to Fallshirmjaeger is a name-change only).

If I recall correctly, there are actually only two nations which got honest-to-god two UUs... Vikings (Longboat added) and Persia (Scythe Chariot).

 

[Aeravel]

That was my wrong assumption I now see, but the name changes add a lot for uniqueness in those cases.
One subtle change I really like is that the Praetorian is changed to Legion as it should have been.
I think you forgot about Russia having two UUs (Cossack and the jet bomber).

 

[18D]

Thanks Wolfshanze- I'll download the new dll and give that a try. I appreciate your quick response, I imagine you must be quite busy keeping up with all of this in addition to those pesky "real world" things that keep us all occupied.

I also agree that Firaxis should be integrating your mod (or at least a large % of the units) into an official game. This definitely sets the standard for what the game should look like. Fine job

 

[ottomanturk1]

My game keeps crashing at 1626 A.D. I'm in the industrial era. My game is being played on vista. I've never had this problem before in Civ4 or with previous versions of your mod. I included the save file. I have tried going back earlier and replaying it but it crashes at the same point.