[BtS MOD] Wolfshanze 1850-1920 Enhancement Mod v2.0

[Wolfshanze]

Really looking forward to taking your 3.17 compliant version for a spin today as haven't had a chance since it was released due to starting back at TAFE. Friday, Saturday and Sunday evenings are my relaxation days. It all sounds good.

Well have fun with it... also would like to know when/if someone completes a FULL game with the new version of the Wolf Mod, as I haven't had time to do so yet myself... always like to know if something is bug-free or not!

Oh, and feel free to comment on any of the new changes and/or units! I think the battering rams will make themselves known real quick. I think the AI became more warlike early-on with those rams!

 

[nv_civ]

@Wolfshanze:

Hi Wolfshanze. First of all, congratulations for your work - you are clearly a very talented modder and a credit to the civfanatics family.

I was wondering whether you have any plans of enhancing the UN's role in the game. I know there have been some attempts in the past by other modders, but most of them were either full of bugs or not drastic enough to make a difference. For once, it would be nice to have UN troops (perhaps controlled by the UN secretary - thus giving some incentive to bother about being elected) to keep the "bad guys" under control, without a nation having to go to war themselves. I think it would also offer great potential for interesting strategies.

Another thing, it would be nice to have privateers not disappearing after the invention of steel (I think). They could be modernized and still be available to torment your opponents.

This is it for now, I hope my message gives you some ideas. Looking forward to hearing back from you

 

[Wolfshanze]

I'll probably implement Auxiliary Cruisers at some point in the future as a modern day privateer... though I seem to keep forgetting about that... should put it on my official "to-do" list.

UN changes is something I haven't really put much thought into... not sure if I will or not.

 

[c0d5579]

Another round of banging on the promotion drum - "privateer" could very well be a generic naval promotion, with only the Privateer unit starting off with it, available normally with either Flanking I or Combat I. This would reflect the fact that piracy (and therefore semi-legitimate acts of privateering) is as old as sea travel, and would allow, for instance, Q-ships and a lukewarm (as opposed to hot or cold) submarine war. Q-ships

The battering ram, incidentally, REALLY simplifies the ancient warfare process. It makes sieges last less than a century in the ancient world. Good inclusion.

 

[Circuit]

Another round of banging on the promotion drum - "privateer" could very well be a generic naval promotion, with only the Privateer unit starting off with it, available normally with either Flanking I or Combat I. This would reflect the fact that piracy (and therefore semi-legitimate acts of privateering) is as old as sea travel, and would allow, for instance, Q-ships and a lukewarm (as opposed to hot or cold) submarine war. Q-ships

Pirates were not just during the age of ship with cannons. Caesar Augustus was kidnapped by pirates. But coming with Combat I or Flanking I would make the promotion far too powerful.

 

[c0d5579]

Two corrections - it was Gaius Julius Caesar, not Gaius Octavius, who was kidnapped. The second correction is that I was suggesting it follow those promotion paths, not that it granted those promotions as well. I presume that Combat II or Flanking II becoming available with Combat I or Flanking I doesn't make those promotions too powerful?

 

[Wolfshanze]

I would NEVER give a promotion to allow any ole ship you want to be a pirate... let's just bury that thought right now.

 

[c0d5579]

True, there are some dangers in the idea - piratical battleships, for instance, are a little crazy from a supply standpoint. That's part of why privateers die out with the Age of Sail. Ships become more expensive to maintain, pressing victims into service becomes harder... it'd be great to make post-sail piracy work in-game, but it's not really supported by the record, is it? Commerce raiders are the closest thing real-world, and the advent of the radio, the airplane, and the Geneva Convention all make those pretty easy to tie to their host nation. Case in point - nobody really thought the Graf Spee's victims were attacked by polar bears, icebergs, or a flock of winged monkeys; they were pretty easily identified as German. Even in WW1, on the cusp of the radio-airplane problem, the Lusitania's attacker was pretty clearly identified with a German U-boat, though the boat remained unidentified.

I still think that making the mechanism as universal as possible is the best way to go generally. The problem is that there are, as always, real issues that Civ4 doesn't handle. In the case of piracy, it's maintenance, crew strengths, and armament fabrication - cannonballs aren't that complicated, and powder is easy enough to come by, but the more advanced the vessel, the harder it becomes to maintain. In the modern era, I can see granting it to transports and submarines, but even then, there are some problems. Until the technological equivalent of the Napoleonic period, there's plenty of justification for it - the Vikings, Sextus Pompeius, the wako in Japan... problem is that if you promote a trireme, it could potentially become something much, much more advanced. There are also some problems with specific-unit exceptions. You can keep something frigate-sized crewed and equipped, but much larger for any length of time, and you really do need the full support of a nation behind you.

Incidentally - hadn't looked at it until now, but hooray for the new Darius. Looks much more... regal than the old one.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Incidentally - hadn't looked at it until now, but hooray for the new Darius. Looks much more... regal than the old one.

Glad you like him... Darius and Sury both bugged me since I first laid eyes on them. They both just creeped me out... Sury more then Darius, which is why Sury got addressed first, but I definitely wanted new LHs for both of them and am happy with their new looks.

 

[Prebral]

There are some modern pirates that can be a regional problem in areas like Somalia, Brazil or Indonesia. However, no modern Civ ship can represent a pirate. A closest thing (considering power values) to a modern pirate ship in Civ is a Transport.

But Transports are mostly used to transport troops and can pass large distances. Modern pirates lurk in straits and ambush commercial ships, loading three tanks on a pirate ship simply seems wrong. If we want a modern pirate ship (or a ship, that can be built freely and promoted to Privateer), it could to be something like this:

Gunboat
Strength: 12 or somtehing like that (usually loses combat with modern ships, but can damage more primitive ships or sink an unlucky modern ship by suicide attacks... imagine boarding commandos or USS Cole)
Cost: cheap
Tech: Combustion + Radio
Cargo space: 1 (can carry only missionaries, spies, great people) (maybe also infantry units except for mech. infantry, but that is probably harder to achieve)
Movement rate: 3
Cannot enter ocean.
Can receive "Pirate" promotion. Can blockade and pillage.

 

[Wolfshanze]

The closest thing to modern day pirates on the Civ4 scale would be the Auxiliary Cruiser... I've already got a plan for how it would work... one has to remember, Auxiliary Cruisers are little more then transports converted for wartime use with heavy guns and rigged so that it can be camouflaged to look like other nations ships.

I already have the stats in my head... I just haven't implemented it in game, but the Auxiliary Cruiser is the only thing I would consider putting into the game in this aspect.

 

[Healz]

Ok, sounds interesting. What happens though if you have a pirate unit and you use it to launch attacks on a city? Should an actual modern pirate be allowed to capture cities? Probably not. Allowing it cargo space to carry missionaries, spies, great people sounds a bit out. You would be better off designating what class of units it could carry... If you do create this and it is sighted by a warship from a different civilization would they aim to destroy it?

 

[Wolfshanze]

Ok, sounds interesting. What happens though if you have a pirate unit and you use it to launch attacks on a city? Should an actual modern pirate be allowed to capture cities? Probably not. Allowing it cargo space to carry missionaries, spies, great people sounds a bit out. You would be better off designating what class of units it could carry... If you do create this and it is sighted by a warship from a different civilization would they aim to destroy it?

To make an Auxiliary Cruiser in Civ4 terms (and remember, this would be forcing a concept into a very rigid game system, and allowing for play-balance), I would do the following:

1) Graphic: Looks like the Transport (in Wolf Mod, that's the Liberty Ship model... it is a converted transport after all).

2) No Normal Cargo: cargo holds were used for stowage of guns, munitions, seaplanes (yes they had them, and I would enable that too), false rigging/paint for camouflage, extra crew quarters for the larger crew, and of course, what storage space was left was usually reserved for captured goods/material/prisoners from the merchants they boarded.... but I'd definitely give them scout planes as well (as was historically the case).

3) Stats: Depending on what age I would allow them to be buildable (no sooner then the Pre-Dreadnought age, but no later then the Dreadnought age [WWI]), the combat strength would be higher then a transport, but less then any other warship... probably around 20 give or take... with a sizeable bonus (perhaps 50% to 75%) against transports. Historically Auxiliary Cruisers (being based on actual transports) were NEVER designed to go toe-to-toe with other purpose-built warships...their sole purpose in life was to prey on unescorted merchants and transports.

4) Nationality: They'd carry the "Hidden Nationality" tag in XML... which essentially makes them Pirates as far as the AI is concerned... any player other then the host nation would see them in-game flying the Barbarian Flag... what that entails is the ability to attack any nation without a declaration of war with this ship. Of course, in return, expect no leeway with the enemy AI... they will aggressively hunt down any and all Auxiliary Cruisers operating in their waters (as it should be).

That's my view of the "Modern Pirate"... it's historically accurate, as far as it relates to history and is allowed in Civ4 game terms. Anything else about "real modern pirates" is just too small a scale and insignificant to consider in Civ4 game terms.

 

[nv_civ]

Oh boy.. I just finished installing the new patch 3.17 and it now finds my computer as being "..below the minimum performance requirements", thus lowering the graphics settings!

I thought I had a top-notch machine. Does anyone know what are the minimum requirements for this upgrade? Here is a summary of my systems specifications:

CPU: Intel Core2 Quad 6600 2.4Ghz LGA775 Processor (G0/SLACR)
Memory: Corsair TwinX 4096Mb DDR2-6400 Memory with Heat Spreader
videocard: 2x XFX 512Mb nVidia GeForce 8600 GT 540M PCI-Express VGA Card

I look forward to your feedback, as this thing is really annoying!

 

[Circuit]

I do miss some of the pirate functions from Civ3, the Enslavement property. A lot of ships were taken as prizes, so it would make sense to give ships a 3/10 probability to create a new unit, whether it is a pirate or not.

This would probably obsolete by the Pre-Dreadnaught age (or steam age, not sure which), when more ships were sunk and less captured.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Oh boy.. I just finished installing the new patch 3.17 and it now finds my computer as being "..below the minimum performance requirements", thus lowering the graphics settings!

I thought I had a top-notch machine. Does anyone know what are the minimum requirements for this upgrade? Here is a summary of my systems specifications:

CPU: Intel Core2 Quad 6600 2.4Ghz LGA775 Processor (G0/SLACR)
Memory: Corsair TwinX 4096Mb DDR2-6400 Memory with Heat Spreader
videocard: 2x XFX 512Mb nVidia GeForce 8600 GT 540M PCI-Express VGA Card

I look forward to your feedback, as this thing is really annoying!

Sounds like you have a better setup then I do (3.0GHz single-core P4, 2GB System Memory & 256MB GeForce 6800GT), and I play with all the graphics on maximum settings and usually play large maps with 18 civs or so without any problems (using my mod of course).

 

[Circuit]

Oh boy.. I just finished installing the new patch 3.17 and it now finds my computer as being "..below the minimum performance requirements", thus lowering the graphics settings!

I thought I had a top-notch machine. Does anyone know what are the minimum requirements for this upgrade? Here is a summary of my systems specifications:

CPU: Intel Core2 Quad 6600 2.4Ghz LGA775 Processor (G0/SLACR)
Memory: Corsair TwinX 4096Mb DDR2-6400 Memory with Heat Spreader
videocard: 2x XFX 512Mb nVidia GeForce 8600 GT 540M PCI-Express VGA Card

I look forward to your feedback, as this thing is really annoying!

I swear, that's a bug! I don't even have half the memory you got, and I don't get that error.

 

[nv_civ]

...! Not sure what is happening then! I use the 2.80 Wolfshanze's mod as a default (so it loads it up automatically every time I start up). Other than that, the only difference between today and last Friday (when I was playing Civ again) is the new patch!

Any ideas guys? At first thought it might be my video card?

 

[Wolfshanze]

All I know is that you have a better setup then me and the game runs great on my setup with the patch... I do recall seeing somebody mention v3.17 lowering their graphic settings though, so I think it's a problem with v3.17, not with the Wolfshanze Mod (though nothing got lowered with me at all).

By chance are you running Windows Vista? It might be an issue with v3.17 + Vista. I'm running WinXP on this end. You might want to check the v3.17 bug-reporting thread... I think it's a v3.17 thing.

 

[c0d5579]

Probably not a Vista problem - I'm running a much slower setup than he is on Vista, and I've had no problems other than the semi-expected bathroom-break-length turn changeovers.

And regarding pirates as Q-ship implementation (now that I know what you mean by auxiliary cruisers, I'm inclined to agree), I was toying with suggesting a total revamp of the modern era ships. Unfortunately, it wound up being so unwieldy that, at the Civ4 level, I don't see it as practical. Basically, what I was going to suggest was a series of hull sizes, from small (submarine, destroyer) to large (battleship, carrier), from which you select what the hull is meant to do once it's constructed - promotions for submarine (or missile sub in the case of medium hulls once nuclear power is available), main surface combatant, carrier, et cetera, as if you were upgrading the unit, with cost set at zero for those upgrades. The problem, like I said, is that I can't for the life of me see how to implement it well, which is more important than just implementing it. The benefit is that it'd allow you at least semi-realistic escort carriers, commerce raiders, and other minor ship roles that would be great to have but are of arguable real use at the Civ4 scale.