[BTS Total Mod] Thomas' War

[tsentom1]

tsentom1,
Yes, I downloaded the latest version of the mode. I have the original Civ 4 game loaded from official game cds. My OS is windows XP with the latest service pks installed. I previously downloaded 2 other mods. One worked ok the other is doing the same thing as Thomas War. When I get the title screen the MENU(single player etc) is missing. Any idea when you will be able to release a new version which will solve my problem? I really want to play this mode. Thanks for your patience and time trying to resolve my issue.

Hmm, which other mod.

The next update probably won't be released till end of this month, beginning of next. It still has a way to go.

 

[erome5578]

turingmachine,
I do have the BTS expansion. Sorry about typing my reply too fast. I have regular Civ4 and BTS. My last post still applies. I look forward to the next update to this particular mode which should solve my problem.

 

[c0d5579]

Hmm, which other mod.

The next update probably won't be released till end of this month, beginning of next. It still has a way to go.

Probably have 500AD on the GEM ancient-resource map done by then; God only knows about 1350AD.

 

[turingmachine]

I previously downloaded 2 other mods. One worked ok the other is doing the same thing as Thomas War.

If you're encountering this problem with multiple mods then the problem isn't with Thomas' War but something about your installation, how you installed the mods, or your computer setup. I doubt Thomas' next version will work for you until you address this underlying problem.

What was the other mod that didn't work and which was the one that did? Maybe we can compare the two mods and see what's different between them.

 

[tsentom1]

As stated, as of the next version the default download of the mod will contain static wonder movies and leaderheads. I will post a separate pack to install that contains the animated leaderheads and movies.

For those of you wondering, this will reduce the size of the overall mod by 925 MB... yes, the leaderheads and wonder movies alone took up almost a gigabyte! Basically, with the animated stuff the mod will be about 1.55 GB, without it will be about 625 MB.

Since these will no longer be in the packed files, this means this should GREATLY reduce MAF errors (using the static leaderheads now reduces MAFs but since many of the 3D leaderheads are still packed the game still loads and stores them to an extent which limits just how much they can currently help).

Because of this, when I do release the update, although I will release it as a patch to just install over your existing version I still highly recommend that you forgo installing the patch and just re-download the whole thing. Since all the art is packed, replacing art isn't easy to do with patches. This will ensure you won't have any extra art hanging around eating up memory.

As for progress, it's going well. I've figured out everything in terms of leaders, traits, UB, UU, and how I'm changing the civics, so I've started programming everything.

It's going to add 1 trait ( a variation of the scientific trait I posted a few posts back). This opens up 16 leader combos, so I'm adding 16 leaders. Some of the old leaders will have their traits switched around. I posted a list of civs I'm adding as well just a little bit ago (don't remember them off hand) but I have decided I am splitting up Native America and Polynesia.

Native America will become the Sioux, Apache, and Iroquois. The Sioux will be functionally identical to the BTS Native America, although the totem poll is being re-named Sun Dance pole, and the Dog Soldier; Brule Warrior. These are just aesthetic changes and their stats are the same - since the Sioux never had totem poles.

Polynesia is turning into the Tu'i Tonga and Hawai'i. The Tu'i Tonga for the most part are functionally identical to my old Polynesia civ (with the Waka being re-named Tongiaki). I'm removing Heke as a leader, and Kamehameha is basically taking his place (hence Hawai'i instead of Moari).

The release estimate is still sometime in February.

 

[Falk]

Great news!

Some of the old leaders will have their traits switched around.

Any chance of giving Hitler other traits? I understand the Charismatic part, but Creative!?

 

[tsentom1]

Great news!

Any chance of giving Hitler other traits? I understand the Charismatic part, but Creative!?

Well, actually, Hitler is known to have had a large degree of artistic aptitude when he was younger, and even told his father that he wanted to grow up to be an artist (which his father of course hated). He never made it as one and ended up with a more infamous fate, but there are still records of drawings and paintings he's produced. Additionally, he was a big collector and fan of art (and Disney in particular). So giving Hitler Creative is a completely accurate and appropriate choice of trait.

With that being said, Hitler was one of the first leaders to be added to my mod, way back when I only added the three missing BTS combos, of which Cre / Cha was the only one that fit him.

The thing is, as I've added new traits and combos, one thing I've never done is change the traits of the BTS leaders. Even so, I think Cha is the most appropriate trait to give anyway. The second trait would have to be from the 6 I added... Dip, Agr, Mer, Sci... not really. Str, Hitler himself really wasn't. So that leaves Nat which works, of course, but Nat is one of those traits you really can fit on a lot of leaders. The thing is I like the Cha / Cre combo better than the Cha / Nat combo (functionally, in terms of gameplay) so I don't think I'm going to change Hitler for this version. Plus, I like it not being the most obvious thing to do with Hitler in a mod.

Though feel free to edit your own version however you like.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Well, Hitler's art was never very good. He got rejected in Vienna!

 

[The Capo]

I'm surprised Aggressive or Imperialist wasn't used for Hitler. Trait combos be damned, it should at least be accurate. I mean, you're talking about a guy who banned certain music and had books burned depending on the authors and you decide to give him creative because he made some paintings?

You have to look at what the trait does, and it gives extra culture, which I sincerely think is a bad trait to give Hitler. Even Organized would have been better. Expansive even.

 

[tsentom1]

But the main thing is, I haven't changed any of the standard BTS Leader's traits. Which leaves me with only my new traits to give to any leader I add. Until Nat (which was only added 2 months ago) none of the new traits fit, and once you've already managed to get a leader with a trait that does have historical basis it becomes insanely difficult to juggle around all the leader traits and have everyone keep some semblance of accuracy when you have to now have, say, 16 leaders that are half Scientific or half Mercantile.

It's easy to say he should be Agr, or Imp, or Exp but it's much harder to do when you're not repeating traits and also integrating a ton of other warmongers that were perhaps more aggressive or expansive (like Attila). With the next version of Thomas' War, there's more than 80 new leaders than BTS. There are a ton of more glaring trait combos to be addressed anyway. None of my Israeli leaders are Spiritual; no one complains about that? To fix it I need to change another leader, and then in turn change that leader, etc. As I add new traits I try to do my best.

Now as for burning books, etc. There is a difference between someone being creative himself and the burning of books and banning of authors. Hell, Phillip II is renowned for the flourishing of culture in Spain but he persecuted the living daylights of anyone / anything that wasn't Catholic. Suppression of Protestantism and forcibly converting Muslims really fits Creative doesn't it? Still Cre is probably one of the most accurate traits to give Phillip II.

Granted Hitler might not reflect how the trait functions in the game but it isn't inaccurate to Hitler's own aptitudes. I tend to look at the trait itself more than how the trait functions gameplay wise as there are a few BTS traits that I feel don't function entirely accurate to their name. And really, functionality wise, adding more culture gives you more territory which kinda is expansive.

And Hitler's rejection from Vienna wasn't entirely or even because of lack of talent. He lacked a school leaving certificate when he left school earlier so his application was rejected outright. Then when he tried to present his paintings as proof of his talent they were rejected for mostly being landscapes, the only real critique known was that they "didn't have enough people."

I feel Cha / Cre is an appropriate trait for Hitler to have especially in the difficulty of doing trait combos when you don't repeat leader traits. Plus, Bismarck and Frederick already cover Exp and Org. It gives the German Civ something different to play with... and I feel that's also a very important factor when adding new leaders to a civ. What's the point if he's just a repeat of someone you could already choose.

If you disagree, that's perfectly fine, it's a matter of two seconds to change the XML files once you download.

 

[Vrenir]

Hitler also seemed a pretty big sponsor of the arts in Germany, at least those that he deemed worthy of the "master race," Wagner and all that.

 

[Falk]

Well, being German, I can assure you that you would be put to court if you were to release your mod officially in Germany.

My suggestion is:
Hitler -> Cha/Nat
Haile Selassie -> Ch/Dipl
Cleopatra -> Ch/Cre

I see where you are coming from with the Creative trait for Hitler, I've seen postcards he painted and indeed they did look quite nice. However it still seems a bit of a euphemism, because after all, creativity wasn't exactly his most dominant character trait.

Anyway, just a suggestion, no problem if you want to keep it as it is.

 

[tsentom1]

Okay, before this thread turns into one of those arguments...

First I wasn't trying to argue for Hitler (I got an angry pm), second I wasn't trying to argue that Cre is the most appropriate trait for Hitler. I was just saying of all the traits to give him it's not wrong to do so.

I actually think the main thing is that most people view Cre as a good (as in morally good) trait, which doesn't fit with evil Hitler. The trait itself is only neutral. Hitler was a charismatic public speaker and propaganda machine that let him rise and maintain his power. His second trait, Exp is already done by Bismarck and anyway, Agg, Exp, Imp weren't available to give him. You can argue a bunch for th second trait. You can even argue Diplomatic and not be entirely wrong. When I initially added Hitler, way back when, I felt I got his primary trait in which was the most important thing to me with the limited options I had.

But since there is such a voiced opinion on this I'll change him to a Charismatic / Nationalistic for the next patch... I sort of figured out how I can move everyone around for it. I'm not that obstinate, it's my mod but I'm only one person of many playing it and if the majority want it one way I can always edit my own personal version.

 

[tsentom1]

Well, being German, I can assure you that you would be put to court if you were to release your mod officially in Germany.

My suggestion is:
Hitler -> Cha/Nat
Haile Selassie -> Ch/Dipl
Cleopatra -> Ch/Cre

I see where you are coming from with the Creative trait for Hitler, I've seen postcards he painted and indeed they did look quite nice. However it still seems a bit of a euphemism, because after all, creativity wasn't exactly his most dominant character trait.

Anyway, just a suggestion, no problem if you want to keep it as it is.

No I appreciate the suggestion and Capo's too, its the like 5 pm's I got when signing on this morning who saw me somehow being pro Hitler...

I thought just having Hitler in the mod will have me put to court in Germany (can't sell anything with him in it there, at least that's what I always heard). I think the main thing is, as I said last post, many people view Cre as a morally good trait, so even if it's not his most dominant trait, it is dismissed outright.

Anyway, he's Cha / Nat next version.

 

[Falk]

its the like 5 pm's I got when signing on this morning who saw me somehow being pro Hitler...

Ooops, now I regret having brought this up. For me it was only a cosmetic change, nothing political.

And, yeah, you're right, if BTS had included Hitler it would probably have been banned. Personally, I do not have any problems with him being in the game since we also have Stalin etc., but as you said, people tend to have very strong feelings about him.

 

[The_J]

I thought just having Hitler in the mod will have me put to court in Germany (can't sell anything with him in it there, at least that's what I always heard).

Then Cybah has a problem, he has also Hitler in his mod .
-> no, that's wrong.
If he were in Civ, there could (only could) have been problems with the sale, but this is not sure.
edit: Major problem would be the crooked cross, but i don't know, what Hitler you're using at the moment (i'll download the next version).

 

[tsentom1]

Yeah, I'm sure a major reason why Firaxis didn't use Hitler - besides offending a bunch of people - was because of sales in Germany.

So I'm sure my mod, and tons of others on this site, couldn't be sold in Germany, but that's what mods are for. Since it can't be officially sold with him in you need to add him yourself. I mean, granted he did horrible things, but there is no denying the impact he had on world history. It's because of that I feel he should be in the game.

 

[=M4G=DERY]

Hi mate!

You did a terrific job with that mod of yours! I've installed and played for the last three days with it and it's great. The only down side is that the game tends to crash suddenly around 1450 AD with every civ I play with and bring me back to XP. I tried saving the game often, but it would not solve the problem. Maybe you could give me pointers or look into it for a solution?

Thanks in advance!

 

[tsentom1]

Hi mate!

You did a terrific job with that mod of yours! I've installed and played for the last three days with it and it's great. The only down side is that the game tends to crash suddenly around 1450 AD with every civ I play with and bring me back to XP. I tried saving the game often, but it would not solve the problem. Maybe you could give me pointers or look into it for a solution?

Thanks in advance!

Do you know what type of crash it is? Like does it give a specific error message (such as failed to allocate video memory, etc)?

Also if you're playing a scenario, custom game (game settings, world size, etc)?

If you have a save to post that would also be helpful for solving bugs.

 

[SpaceCowboy_MA]

Just loaded this and blown away! Hugely impressed with leader/civ selection and number of changes. No idea what techs/wonders to shoot for yet. Also really like the glance view on the foreign adviser but still trying to find out what the blue and pink signify... Have to admit to being a bit overwhelmed by it all-- trying to decipher it through the civilopedia is slow going. Are there any out of game references or guides to all of the changes available anywhere? TIA