Buildlist spam makes the game less interesting

[RidetheSpiral23]

The things is the Paper Maker also is providing you with and sometime producting buildings also have a down side the more you make. Not to mention there has been talks for ages about having resources have a quantity for things. So I would like to keep that window open the the possibility of a supply line type of system.

At any rate I have some other ideas I am trying to work out that you guy might like. So stay tuned.

I look forward to seeing what you have in mind...

Yeah papermaker produces gold. So do hundreds of other buildings. That's the issue. It has the same gameplay value as any other gold producing building that basically gives you nothing.

I can't possibly see any reason why you would need to quantify the number of paper resources a civilization has. If you are going to take that approach then are we going to have the papermaker produce thousands of paper a turn? What good is that? Wait we might need 30 hats or ten pairs of shoes! Hurry we need more beads, let's build a beadmakers hut in every city!

I will concede that a lot of the buildings are conditional but that hardly matters as there are already so many buildings. Does it make sense to have a building that is dependant upon a certain set of circumstances to have the same value as a hundred other buildings you already have? Where does the strategy come in?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ok so I have been thinking of a few ways to do things ...

1. SimCity 4 Style - Rather than controlling individual buildings you control the zoning of buildings. Such if you want Farms you would zone for Agricultural or if you wanted Offices you would Zone for Medium Commercial, etc.

2. SimCity (2013) Style - Rather than controlling Offices, Factories, Farms etc you would build parks, utilities, water, etc. Based on what you built would trigger what buildings get auto-built.

3. Guilds/Franchises Style - If you build a Guild or Franchise for a specific type of building it will make that building in every city.

4. Auto-Build Tech Style - If you reach certian techs then an Auto-Build building will be built that gives all your cities a particular building.

5. Colony Style - Colonists, Pioneers and other Settler Units will build a larger set of starter building when a new city is built.

6. Autonomous Property - Some administrative buildings and civics will give "Autonomous" property. The more you have the more buildings will automatically build. Thus common buildings will have lower Autonomous triggers while more rare buildings will have a higher Autonomous trigger.

7. Builder Unit - Builder units can make buildings when placed at a city and then are used up. They are expensive to make and cost a lot of gold while in play. Note this may be an over powered idea considering we have Slaves and stuff.

Let me know what you guys think of these ideas. They are just brainstorming and I have no ideas which if any would or should be used.

 

[RidetheSpiral23]

@Joseph

I can appreciate your point of view but what makes you think that people can't have different play styles? Why does that play style the only one that makes sense?

I also don't think you were understanding his point. I agree that cities need to adapt. The point he was making is that sometimes you need good horsemen being produce out of a city (which is realistic). You can't get a stable and a riding school out in a semi timely manner if you don't have the dozens of hammer producing buildings that are available for you to build.

 

[strategyonly]

Ok so I have been thinking of a few ways to do things ...


Let me know what you guys think of these ideas. They are just brainstorming and I have no ideas which if any would or should be used.

I like all of these ideas, but you will run into opposition like i do for the Great Farmer for # 7.

But i believe now the GF is fine, so what you might need to do here is make it alot more expensive like 4-5 times more, or a percentage of the amount of buildings that unit can build at one time?? Not like the GF only 1 resource at one time, but the Great Builder (GB) building MORE buildings at one time, and for less Autonomous as you put it less expensive and then the opposite for more. Am i rambling here??

 

[MantaRevan]

Colony style is necessary I think, among others. New cities being founded with almost no buildings makes little sense, and going back and auto-building old ones is time consuming when in reality, a new city should probably already have these things. In regular civ, founding empty cities makes senses due to the lack of buildings available, but in C2C almost everything is a building and cities being founded without these things isn't adapting well to the mod.

 

[teakbois]

Ok so I have been thinking of a few ways to do things ...

1. SimCity 4 Style - Rather than controlling individual buildings you control the zoning of buildings. Such if you want Farms you would zone for Agricultural or if you wanted Offices you would Zone for Medium Commercial, etc.

2. SimCity (2013) Style - Rather than controlling Offices, Factories, Farms etc you would build parks, utilities, water, etc. Based on what you built would trigger what buildings get auto-built.

3. Guilds/Franchises Style - If you build a Guild or Franchise for a specific type of building it will make that building in every city.

4. Auto-Build Tech Style - If you reach certian techs then an Auto-Build building will be built that gives all your cities a particular building.

5. Colony Style - Colonists, Pioneers and other Settler Units will build a larger set of starter building when a new city is built.

6. Autonomous Property - Some administrative buildings and civics will give "Autonomous" property. The more you have the more buildings will automatically build. Thus common buildings will have lower Autonomous triggers while more rare buildings will have a higher Autonomous trigger.

7. Builder Unit - Builder units can make buildings when placed at a city and then are used up. They are expensive to make and cost a lot of gold while in play. Note this may be an over powered idea considering we have Slaves and stuff.

Let me know what you guys think of these ideas. They are just brainstorming and I have no ideas which if any would or should be used.

1. Yes, please. I like the idea of more specialized cities.

2. I think some instances of this would work well but not as a main system

3. I like the guild system. It cant be used for everything though. Beadmaker, yes. Library, no.

4. this could also potentially be tied to population. For instance, if your city grows to size 15 maybe they open up their own market without you having to build one.

5. I like the colonists. Could they be coded s everything doesnt magically pop up turn 1? Let the city ramp up a little for more realism but auto build for less tedium.

6. A good bonus perk. Your citizens taking matters into their own hands, similar to what i suggested in 4

7. Could give each great person a build set for this maybe?

 

[Yudishtira]

Supply buildings: There are tons of buildings that give resources. For example, paper maker. Supplies paper. you end up with one in every city, and you end up with 30 copies of paper.

Great example because it is not worth building a Paper Maker in every city - unless you have run out of other things to build, and that would put paid to the 'too many buildings' argument. I have three Paper Makers in 59 cities. The game can't stop you playing suboptimally and mindlessly building everything, but if you play on a sufficiently challenging difficulty setting, it will punish you for it.

There are certain cases of multiple (10+) buildings being exactly the same - such as bug and bird catchers - which I don't like. But that's a different case, as you can't build them all in one city.

 

[Sparth]

Is there possible to make some buildings similar to cultural units? I mean only few available to build.

 

[code99]

Colony style is necessary I think, among others. New cities being founded with almost no buildings makes little sense, and going back and auto-building old ones is time consuming when in reality, a new city should probably already have these things. In regular civ, founding empty cities makes senses due to the lack of buildings available, but in C2C almost everything is a building and cities being founded without these things isn't adapting well to the mod.

^This.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Colony Style - We already have that in play. That is what Free at Tech is all about. I only got round to doing about one tenth of the buildings which have population zero or one. Mostly the production ones. We just need people who design and build the new buildings to specify at what tech those buildings become free at. It is in the XML so it is easy to adjust. It even ensures that the buildings have their requirements met before building them.

If you want buildings that have higher population limits free in your city then you need the Python code. It is exactly what the Advanced Settlers module by Platyping is about.

 

[platyping]

Is it really that hard to accept the colony style is bugged beyond repair unless you dig into the SDK to look for a solution?

Tech style is the one that works.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Is it really that hard to accept the colony style is bugged beyond repair unless you dig into the SDK to look for a solution?

Tech style is the one that works.

You misunderstand. "Colony style" is a player perspective not programming perspective. Yes the old coding way is bugged but the playing perspective is fine.

 

[platyping]

5. Colony Style - Colonists, Pioneers and other Settler Units will build a larger set of starter building when a new city is built.

So long as it is unit dependent, it is not possible via pure python or xml.
Unless you delve into the sdk to get a new way to get the settling unit, you can scrap this idea.

 

[Faustmouse]

Ok so I have been thinking of a few ways to do things ...

1. SimCity 4 Style - Rather than controlling individual buildings you control the zoning of buildings. Such if you want Farms you would zone for Agricultural or if you wanted Offices you would Zone for Medium Commercial, etc.

2. SimCity (2013) Style - Rather than controlling Offices, Factories, Farms etc you would build parks, utilities, water, etc. Based on what you built would trigger what buildings get auto-built.

3. Guilds/Franchises Style - If you build a Guild or Franchise for a specific type of building it will make that building in every city.

4. Auto-Build Tech Style - If you reach certian techs then an Auto-Build building will be built that gives all your cities a particular building.

5. Colony Style - Colonists, Pioneers and other Settler Units will build a larger set of starter building when a new city is built.

6. Autonomous Property - Some administrative buildings and civics will give "Autonomous" property. The more you have the more buildings will automatically build. Thus common buildings will have lower Autonomous triggers while more rare buildings will have a higher Autonomous trigger.

7. Builder Unit - Builder units can make buildings when placed at a city and then are used up. They are expensive to make and cost a lot of gold while in play. Note this may be an over powered idea considering we have Slaves and stuff.

Let me know what you guys think of these ideas. They are just brainstorming and I have no ideas which if any would or should be used.

1. This would probably work for thoe Vicinity Buildings like Farms, Mines; for Sport Buildings and maybe Factories.

2. Not sure on that.

3. A big YES! This will help newer cities catching up faster. You'd still need to build new buildings in some of your cities but it removes the annyoning thing: Build buildings in EVERY city. The problem I can see is that guild go obsolete before their buildings do. Maybe we need a building chain so that ie Paper Maker would get replaced by Paper Factory before the Paper Maker's Guild obsolete.

4. and 5. Yeah. If I understand you correctly this will go:
a) you unlock building X with Tech A and can build it manually in the cities that match the requirements.

b) Once you researched Tech B, Building X will be free in new cities if requirements are met -> Works only for buildings with no Pop-size requirement.

c) After you researched Tech C, Building X will be free in every city - old ones and new ones too.

6. This would be more or less the same as 1. except taht you don't need to build Zones but Administrative buildings instead.

7. Yes! Suppy trains with prebuild buildings can be send to new cities and create a set of buildings.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Now I will give my opinions on these.

1. This is one of my least favorite because the game is basically playing itself without your input. You might as well put on the city on automate.

2. Similar to one but a little more organic.

3. This I would like to bring back and work on. Especially if we can make it work.

4. This as far as I know would need like a building for every building that we want to auto-build. This seems like too much bloat to me. I would much rather have a tag on buildings that say like auto-build at X tech.

5. This was listed because of Dh's work and did not want to leave it off my list.

6. This could be cool, but only as a last resort if the others don't work.

7. Yeah some common buildings like Carpenter or Mason buildings should be on the list. Mainly stuff that give you quick hammers to kick start a city. However if #5 is in place we may not need this.

In short choice 3 seems like the best short term goal along with DH working on #5.

 

[teakbois]

Now I will give my opinions on these.

1. This is one of my least favorite because the game is basically playing itself without your input. You might as well put on the city on automate.

I mis interpreted this, I thought you meant that you needed to specialize your cities. If you choose one way, then certain buildings become available but others are locked.

Although perhaps what you are describing could be a non optimal option. Just like you can automate your workers if you want, but its not the best choice.

 

[Nimek]

Adding building category tag like unit combat class will solve problem

In city screen you should be able to filter by category. It was proposed long time ago.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

While we are wishing for fishes - how about a zoom function on the build area of the city screen which brings up a full window version! It would contain colapsable sections for units/buildings/wonders (national, great, projects, processes). Still have the filters and in addition show some important information off to the side like properties that are causing problems.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Good idea DH.

I'd like to add to the list Hydro proposed (later I'll come back with some opinions on those):
#8: Public VS Private build queues: The city maintains 2 build queues, splitting the production between the two. Buildings are all firmly categorized (a project I do have in the works still). Civic choices put various categories of buildings into a Public or Private (or valid for both) qualification. The player controls what is build by the Public build queue while an ai governor that is driven by the desires of the 'people' and what they most immediately 'want' controls the Private build queue. Civic choices shift some production from or away from the Public or Private sector so the ratio of the city's available production going to one or the other is determined by these choices. Civic selections CAN make all buildings Public or Private but we can make these options less advantageous by making some buildings build faster or differ in effect if built Publicly or Privately. For example, a given building might tend to cost money if built publicly (taxes to support) or bring in money if built privately (brings in taxable income). Buildings might tend to be BETTER if built privately in many cases, making the private queue desirable to get buildings developed through BUT the lack of control can make inspiring the people to build what you want them to a bit strategic itself.

 

[strategyonly]

Adding building category tag like unit combat class will solve problem

In city screen you should be able to filter by category. It was proposed long time ago.

While we are wishing for fishes - how about a zoom function on the build area of the city screen which brings up a full window version! It would contain colapsable sections for units/buildings/wonders (national, great, projects, processes). Still have the filters and in addition show some important information off to the side like properties that are causing problems.

Good idea DH.

I'd like to add to the list Hydro proposed (later I'll come back with some opinions on those):self.

I thought that AIAndy's build stuff was supposed to fix this? But i personally have tried it and can NOT figure out to work it either, so i take it everyone else is having the same problems, not knowing how to use it, doesn't do much good in C2C, if nobody knows how to use it???