Bz2 - 5CC Overdrive

Back to the 5CC Mine
IT: I stop those mining workers. That said, I push the big blinking button.
T1: Edrine: Knight->Knight. Americans start Copern.
T2: Babs and Arabia sign MA against Aztecs. Istanbul: Knight->Knight. Same with Bursa. Salmanaca builds Leos. Prepare for the Cop. Cascade.
T3: Iznik: Knight -> Knight (Just a question: Should we be building Uni's? We may end up doing our own research eventually). Persepolis snaps the Cascade and builds Copern. Wait.. Its not dead yet. Babs start Bachs.
T4: Edrine: Knight -> Knight.
T5: Hmm.. Our peace treaty and dye deal with the Zulu has expired. (Next turn is the Dye deal) Dare we? Irq and Persia sign Peace Treaty. Istanbul: Knight -> Knight. I unfortify a batch of Knights in all cities. Uskudar: Courthouse -> Knight. I also upgrade all Swords and Warriors to Med Inf. Total cost: 340g. All upgraded but that one Elite sword in the Saltpeter camp. I wait for next turn
T6: Its next turn! Time to let loose the Genocidal Penguin! We formally declare with the Zulu and begin to attack.
4/4 K v F 3/3 I. K wins, no damage. 4/4 K v F 3/3 I. 2 damage. Wins. Raizes city (I hate doing this, but its 5CC). Tula is gone. We take 1 slave.
4/4 K v F 3/3 I. K wins, no damage, Raizes Ngome. We take 2 slaves. Another 2 are captured. I activate aprox 20 Med Inf. I buy a MA against Zulu w/ Arabia for WM, 21gpt and 240g. We take another 2 slaves.
IBT: Longbow v Knight: K is Redlined, retreats. Med Inf V Knight- See Longbow.
T7: Edrine: Knight -> Knight. WW kicks in and has Iznik riot. I raise Lux to 10. 4/4 K v F 3/3 I. Wins, but redlined. See last Knight. Takes Taltelolco and 2 prisoners. 4/4 K v 4/4 MI. K dies, does 2 damage. And Im back. A few "Hail Sids" and "Our Sorens" and Im off to tempt the RNG god and attack Ishwanda. 4/4 K redlines against 4/4 pike. retreats. Pike doesnt change, though, so I launch another K. K redlines. I send the remaining 4/4 K to go pillage the Iron supply.
IBT: Arabia and Aztecs sign Peace. We loose 2 redlined Ks to Med Infs and a 3rd Unit is redlined.
T8: Order restored in Iznik. Iznik builds Knight. 4/4 Med Inf v 4/4 Longbow. Wins, no damage. 4/4 Med Inf v 3/3 horse. Wins, 2 damage.
IBT: Varuious Menagere of Zulu units destroy Redlined unints.
T9: Istanbul and Bursa build knights. 4/4 M Inf v 3/3 I. Wins, 2 damage. 2/4 M Inf v 3/3 I. Looses. 4/4 K v 2/4 Archer. Wins, 2 damage, promoted. 4/4 K v 3/3 I. Wins, no damage. 4/4 K v 3/3 I, wins, no damage, promoted, autoraizes Swazi. 4/4 K v 3/3 I. Wins, no damage. 4/4 K v 3/3 I. Wins, 1 damage. Tenochtitlan raized. (I really hate Razing...) 4 slaves taken. 2/4 K v 3/3 I. Looses.
IBT: We loose our Elite Knight to a 4/4 horse.
T10: Uskadur builds Knight. 4/4 M Inf v 3/3 I. Wins, no damage. 4/4 Med Inf v 2/4 Longbow. Wins, 2 damage. Captures and raizes Calixtlahuaca along with 3 slaves (One being Aztec). Knight pillages Zulu Iron. Shaka will talk, but he wont give us everything and we have a MA with Arabia. 3/4 K v 3/3 I. Looses. 4/4 K v 1/3 I. Wins. Captures and Raizes Tzintzuntzen. Takes 1 slave. That ends things here.
To the next: Watch out for WW. Most likely shouldnt have signed that MA with Arabia. How bad would our rep be if we took Shaka's 3 techs for peace?

Uploads isnt working right now.. so ill try to get it up later
 
@civgeneral: I have no problem in your joining. Let's hear from other too about this. Do you have any experience in playing a 5CC?

@Earp: workers mining a grasssland that we can never work! :blush: Why do I always do that?
 
I see it, but unfortunately it will take me my full 24 hours to play. I should post about this time 24 hours from now. Sorry about the delay!
 
I took a brief look at the save. I think Zulu is hammered pretty well. However, I think we need to honor our treaty. IMHO, we do not need to attack him anymore. We can just regroup, sit back and build our military to hammer Baby next. Abu the beard will do the job for us as far as Shaka is concerned. After 20 turns we can extract whatever tech from Shaka and declare peace.

As for our Iron deal with Iro - we can get Astronomy from him for that.
 
Originally posted by betazed
@civgeneral: Do you have any experience in playing a 5CC?
Click to expand...

I have some Experience in playing a 5CC (since most of my Early Games ended up like a 5CC Style game)
 
Stuck_As_a_Mac, why did you upgrade the MDI before the Cavalry? I usually upgrade all of my horsemen to cavalry first, and I am interested to hear your reasoning behind this. I think I know why you did it, but I am not sure. Do the rest of you all upgrade MDI before cavalry?

If you chop down a forest that is outside of a city’s tiles, do the ten shields still go to the nearest city?

I see that the BG was mined. Did the workers finish the mine before you could stop them?

I guess my advice about bringing the Arabs into the war was :smoke: I did not think we would be able to raze so many Zulu cities so quickly and be ready for peace after only five turns.

IMO, we should press the Zulu war a little further and take some of his core cities. Most of the cities we have taken so far were former Aztec cities or jungle cities with minimal production. So far, I do not think we have hurt Shaka very severely and we still have about 15 turns left in our alliance with Arabia. Abu Bakr does not appear to have done much in the war.

I think we should finish off the Aztecs while we have troops in the vicinity in the North. We do not want them to re-settle their former cities that we just razed. I think I saw an Aztec archer in our territory. They might declare war on us if we ask them to leave our territory.

We need to build colonies and roads to the dyes and gems in the north with our new slaves asap.

I think we should add workers to some of our cities to get them up to 12 asap.

I think we should attack Babylon as soon as we have about 10 cavalry built/upgraded and at least one musket defending each city. I think we will have enough troops to fight both wars. We only have five cities to defend. We should probably avoid signing alliances against Babylon so that we can end the war before 20 turns are over.

I think we should begin to build universities after we finish the Zulu, Aztec and Babylonian wars. We should be able to pointy stick research our next few techs from the Zulus and Babylonians.

And finally, I don't mind adding another player.
 
Hi everyone.

I'm about halfway done with my turns, but I need to ask some advice. I think we may want to cancel that alliance with the Arabs afterall. The thing is, the Iroquois have their own iron now, so we have lost one of the only ways we had to get techs. The AI has gone up 5 techs, and the Zulu will give us four of them for peace right now. In addition, we are paying the Arabs 21gpt for this deal!

Some problems - it would hurt our reputation. I am not sure how bad - would this make us simply unable to sign more MA's in the futrue, but not affect resource trading? Does anyone know?

It's important because also during my turn the Babylonians settled right on top of our saltpeter source. While we can always take it back, we should consider the possibilty that we may need to trade for saltpeter sometime.

Please all, let me know what you think. After I get a good feel for what others want I'll finish my turns.
 
Can you tell me what are the 4 techs that the zulus will give us? If it is useless techs then I do not know. However, if it is useful techs like ToG, Military Tradition etc, then it might be worth it.
 
IMO, we should not break the deal. I think it will make it extremely difficult to sign MAs in the future(not that we'll want to) and make other civs not want to sign gpt deals with us. We can catch up in techs after we pound the Babs a little and take the four from the Zulu at the end of the alliance.
 
Saorry about any typos - I didn't have a chance to proofread.

Turn 0 – 530 AD – Checking things over – As mentioned we have 16 turns left on our alliance with the Arabs against the Zulu. I intend to honor it. We have 3 turns left on our iron deal with the Iros. Our forces seem really spread out up north. MM Bursa to grow to size 12 faster. Iznik will riot this turn! 21% WW… Change production to Colosseum.

BT – Arabia and Babylon sign alliance against Persia. Zulu longbow retreats one of our knights. Edrine Knight -> Knight ->

Turn 1 – 540 A.D. - An elite loses to a regular Impi. Great, just great.

BT The settler flood has started towards the open lands. I was afraid of that. Lose our supply of gems and Spices.

Turn 2 – 550 A.D. – Movement of troops. Our forces are so spread out, I’m not sure what to do with them. Out iron deal expires next turn.

BT – An aggressive Babylonian settle ment takes away our SP. Argh!!!!! The AI is settling all over the place now, with a Zulu settlement taking a nearby horse and a Aztec settlement taking the gems to the north. Istanbul Knight->Knight.

Turn 3 – 560 A.D. The Iron deal with the Iroquios expires, but in the meantime they acquired iron! Yep they have a source right neat Niagara Falls. We lose two luxuries, and we now have nothing to trade them. This was a horrible turn – lost our saltpeter and our iron trade all at once. I sure wish the AI would build some freaking harbors! I join 3 workers to Uskudar – it is size 12 now. Unfortunately it cannot support that population due to WW, I have to make 2 of them entertainers until the cathedral completes. I rush the cathedral. The AI is up 5 complete techs now. No trades are available, anywhere. I sure wish we could end the war and get some tech. We build a colony on one of the dyes and hook it up.

BT – Our forces are getting slaughtered because they are so spread out.

Turn 4 – 570 A.D. I start irrigating some non-bonus grasslands. This will allow us to work more mountain tiles, netting us more shields. Teoithuacan Razed. I’m going to pull back and consolidate forces – The zulu will already give us all of their tech we we can (finally) declare peace some time later. All our research for the foreseeable future will need to be pointy-stick. I strongly recommend that next time we don’t do it with an alliance. We are falling way behind waiting for that alliance to end. Ugh War weariness goes up a little bit again. No trades possible (believe me I tried).

BT – Zululand and Babylon sign against the Aztecs. That should just about do it for them I imagine.

Turn 5 – 580 A.D. I think I want to cancel the treaty. More on this I think I’m going to ask the group. OK maybe not. The other team members vetoed the idea, and I can understand why. I’m afraid my turns won’t be too productive as a result, however. My main goal will be to consolidate forces for an attack on the Babylonians. WW goes up AGAIN! I switch Bursa to Colosseum, it will need it.

BT – Zulu are mounting a pretty respectable longbow attack in the south.

Turn 6 – 590 A.D. Just pulling back forces and preparing for the Zulu attack. WW is killing us. 10 turns left on the Alliance.

Turn 7 – 600 A.D. More of the same. We still have a bunch of horsemen that need upgrading, but I don’t see a need to hurry on that. The Iroquois are filling in most of the former Aztec land.

Turn 8 – 610 A.D. Babylonians are pulling a Deity RoP (unless they mean to attack??).

Turn 9 – 620 A.D. I start building a few Universities since we have a little slow phase here before the next war. The Babylonians have a LOT of Knights…

Turn 10 – 630 A.D. Nothing really. The next leader can start a war with the Babs at any time, but with all the knights they have in our lands it’s risky. As soon as the stupid alliance ends we can catch way up in tech. Most of our forces are now sitting in Bursa after my consolidation. Good Luck!


The Save
 
BZ2_630AD.JPG
 
A few more notes -

Now that our forces are consolidated, we have the option of sending our Knights in Busa after the Zulu again before the treaty expires. This probably won't gain us anything except further weakening the Zulu, but the capability of forming a pretty nice SoD is there. The other option is to start the war with the Babylonians now, but we need to be careful as they have quite a few Knights of their own running around.

The next player will notice there is a worker in the jungle N of Istanbul - this was a miss-click by me but I didn't reload to fix him. Sorry about that.
 
Ack... I hate having to do this, but I am going to have to ask for a skip between now and July 14th.
Blame my family. It was their idea to go on vacation. For me, vacation would have been coding with a laptop in the middle of my back yard.
Again, I'm REALLY sorry I have to do this, but I need a skip between now and then.
Dont worry, I will come back.
SaaM

PS- Please dont drop me
 
Looking at the save, I think we are okay as far as techs are concerned. I am pretty sure we will be caught up by the time we finish pounding the Babylonians. I think we need to build some pikes to upgrade to muskets when we reconnect saltpepper. What do you all think of building some pikes and catapults for eventual upgrade?

I plan on razing the Zulu city of Isanhiwana before granting them peace. What kind of a defense will it have? 2 muskets and a pike? Do the Zulus have cavalry running around?

I am going to let the Babylonian cavalry move a little further into our territory, away from the mountains, and then slaughter them. I plan on razing Hidana, building a colony on the saltpepper and upgrading the pikes on the first turn.

I think we need to build universities and turn back on our research after we grant peace to the poor Babylonians. I think we should research towards Sipahi.
 
Originally posted by Earp
Looking at the save, I think we are okay as far as techs are concerned. I am pretty sure we will be caught up by the time we finish pounding the Babylonians. I think we need to build some pikes to upgrade to muskets when we reconnect saltpepper. What do you all think of building some pikes and catapults for eventual upgrade?

I plan on razing the Zulu city of Isanhiwana before granting them peace. What kind of a defense will it have? 2 muskets and a pike? Do the Zulus have cavalry running around?

I am going to let the Babylonian cavalry move a little further into our territory, away from the mountains, and then slaughter them. I plan on razing Hidana, building a colony on the saltpepper and upgrading the pikes on the first turn.

I think we need to build universities and turn back on our research after we grant peace to the poor Babylonians. I think we should research towards Sipahi.
Click to expand...

Building pikes to upgrade sounds like a good idea. I was mostly building Knights to upgrade to Siphai, but we will need both. With all this upgrading, it just occurred to me that obtaining Leonardo's workshop for a turn or two could be a good strategy, albeit very dastardly. Anyone remember where it is?

The Zulus do not have Cavalry AFAIK. They don't even seem to have any Knights. I did have problems with Longbowmen using the roads to ambush our Knights out of the fog, but that was it.

Good luck!
 
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