Alright, here is the big post with some ideas. This isn't all of them so stay tuned:
As said before. I really enjoy the base dynamic and development of CIV4 aside from the fact that the game usually ends before the modern era and than it's just cleanup. So I intend to replicate that but changed. I also don't want this to be a C&C scenario but an actual mod where anything can happen. Like maybe Yuri takes over America instead? So think in those terms.
Eras:
Regular CIV4 ha 7 eras. Ancient, Classical, Medieval, Renaissance, Industrial, Modern and Future. In my experience the gameplay of those works out like this:
- Ancient: Nothing much happens. You scout a bit, maybe found a 2nd city or a 3rd if you are really quick. But there is no war and probably no diplomacy either. This is the stage where you are just discovering critical resources and stuff really.
- Classical: Some wars might happen on faster speeds and on smaller maps. Otherwise this is the era where diplomacy really starts but there is still enough space that wars don't really happen much.
- Medieval: The map is somewhat crowded now. And everyone is scrambling to settle the various resources which inevitably end up in between you and the AI. This is where most of the mid game wars and rivalries really flare up. So it's the first really massively active era.
- Renaissance: A direct continuation of Medieval. Literally more of the same.
- Industrial: Things have mostly consolidated at this point. Empires are big. Vassals are a thing if you have them enabled. The game is usually decided by this point if you are going for quick victory conditions like Cultural.
- Modern: Things rarely get to this point but it's just more of the same. Unless something is seriously done to shake things up it's honestly boring. Which is a shame since this is where you get all the cool toys.
- Future: This era is a token. It's like 3-4 techs and 2 units.
Feel free to correct my assessment of these as it is based only on my personal experience and nothing else. And I play only slowly and on huge maps and I am not a very good player either.
Anyway, because I really enjoy this gameplay progression (except for the modern era) I want to replicate it in this mod. I also want to put the most fun bits in the part of the game where most stuff happens. So under those assumptions I would create the following eras as direct equivalents.
Note that the names are working versions and that the years are only listed here as a rough outline for you, the reader, to figure out what I intend to unlock in terms of technologies, weapons,civics etc. in each age.
- Starting era: ? - WW1 start in 1914. This replaces the short ancient era.
You unlock the same techs as in the base game but re flavored. So instead of "animal husbandry" you have "Industrial Cattle Farming". The lore being that it's the late industrial revolution and you are presiding over transition to modern industrial societies. So in that case unlocking the "pasture" improvement represents a switch from the historical small family farm with some cows into an actual industrial factory farm with thousands of cows fit to feed an industrial civilization.
- WW1 Era: 1914 - 1930. This is the era when you scout the map, spam cities, pop goodie huts etc. It's also the era where you unlock most of the base stuff you'll use to later unlock RA toys.
At the start of this era you will unlock machineguns, the first turrets (see turrets section), the first production buildings (see the production buildings section) and than by the end of it you will have tanks, fighters and most of the things you need to start WW2 but no RA specific techs.
I might also include some of my own made up flare and flavor later on to spice this era up. But that's post beta content.
- Red Alert 1 era: 1940 - 1960. In my experience most wars and stuff don't really happen before the medieval era. So that's where I'd put all the cool toys.
Canonically RA1 starts at some point in the mid to late 40's. But a specific date is newer given. The idea with this era is to let the player slowly progress through the in game tech tree as seen by what is unlocked in the missions and when. For example, early techs in this era will unlock unlocking light, medium and heavy tanks and anti tank infantry with rocket launchers. By the middle of it you'll get jet fighters and helicopters. And one of the very last techs in the era unlock the mammoth tank.
- Red Alert 2 era: 1960 - 1980.
RA2 is my favorite of all the games and the one I know best. Like I can and have beaten the game on Brutal under par time in a single sitting several times now, including last Saturday. Canonically the game is set in the 70's. It's also canonically not canonical in the Tiberium universe. But I like it so it's going in.
In regular CIV this is the era where you transition from old style units to gunpowder units. And it so happens that in the C&C universe this is when really cool things like Tesla troopers and tanks and all the really cool stuff starts appearing. So expect lots of that. For example the Tesla tank is going to be the Russian UU that replaces modern tanks.
Also, in post-beta this is the era when you will be able to spawn Yuri. To see what I mean by Spawn check out the Mercurials and Infernals from FFH.
- First Tiberium War era: 1990 - 2020.
Post beta. But think hell terrain from FFH with Nod spawning like the Infernals. Only you can switch to them and play as Kane.
The goal here is to use the Tiberium mechanics to massively shake up the game at this point. Everything just flat out changes to the point that if you were going for a victory condition of any sort you better complete it BEFORE it hits because you'll have your progress reset by its effects as everyone pivots toward dealing with Tiberium one way or the other.
- Second Tiberium War era: 2020 - end of game
All the cool things from Tiberium Sun.
Thoughts on Tiberium:
I won't discuss Tiberium much here. Because that's something for when I get the base game working. Think of it and Yuri as Expansion Packs / DLC in modern terms.
But in short I intend the game to end at the end of Tiberium Sun. This is partially since I don't know or care for the later games and partially because there are only so many turns to deal with in a CIV game. If I did include those later games it would mean adding a further 3-4 eras into the game and that would just drag things out way too much. Vanilla games are already more or less decided by the time you reach the industrial and modern eras after all. So unfortunately no Scrin and no later games. At least not in the initial version.
The good part of that though is that I can tailor the GDI and Nod play style and ideology and stuff off of what I know which is what you can see in the first 3 Tiberium games (Command and Conquer, Tiberian Sun and Renegade) with GDI having an emphasis on getting rid of Tiberium and Nod having an emphasis on terraforming the world into a Tiberium planet and using Divination to adapt humanity to it. The whole thing is going to reflect Alpha Centaury in its gameplay with the pro-planet vs anti planet sort of mechanic. And that is just cool.
So in super short terms, you reach the end of Red Alert 2 and if you haven't won the game by than the game just turns into Alpha Centaury and you go "Oh ***" the planet is trying to kill me now". And Nod spawns and suddenly 2/3 of the world is in one of two defensive pacts and everything is thrown into disarray and the game just changes and you have to adapt.
Regular Buildings:
I want to keep most of the original CIV4 balance in place in terms of buildings and stuff. So most of the regular CIV4 buildings will stay the same only renamed and reflavored. For example instead of building an
Aqueduct you'd be building
Waterworks. I will however need help with the following things:
- How to name and rename the buildings. The Aqueduct is easy but I already renamed the Forge into Factory so what do I call the Factory now?
- How to reflavor or add things to the tech tree to justify keeping the progression? You can't well be researching Mathematics in 1920 or unlocking libraries in 1970. But you can't front load everything either.
- How to integrate all this into the rest of the game and tech tree.
The workload here is huge because we need to work out these answers for each individual building and than integrate all of that into a broader tech tree. And it all has to work both in terms of realistic history and C&C flavor. It along with civics is my greatest stumbling block so far.
Production Buildings:
In order to keep with the flavor of Command and Conquer I intend to add production buildings that are required in a city before it can produce certain unit types. The mechanic here is exactly the same as how in the base game you need monasteries to produce missionaries. And it is going to replicate the C&C base building mechanic as well as act as a gatekeeping mechanic to stop the player and AI from spamming too many units. I got the idea from the vanilla Drydock.
Each of these buildings will each be required to unlock a certain category of units and come with a bonus to
. However they will each come with a penalty as well by adding
. The idea here is to make them a tradeoff so that you don't want to just spam build them in every city as soon as they unlock. Instead you will have to specialize cities and think carefully where you put what. Do you really want to have every city able to produce tanks? Probably not.
The buildings planned and the era they are unlocked in are roughly as follows:
Barracks - Unlocked automatically at the start of the game and acts like the regular CIV barracks. The only difference is that it's also required for late game (RA2 and later) advanced infantry units.
War Factory - Unlocked in the late WW1 era with early tanks. Adds
when building units and 2 x
. Required to build all vehicles.
Airfield - Unlocked in the late WW1 era at the same time when you get aircraft. It acts as the regular CIV airfield. Required to build all aircraft other than the airship.
Arsenal - Unlocked at the middle of the WW1 era with your first artillery unit. Adds
when building units and 2 x
. Required to build artillery units and superheavy units like the Mammoth Tank. This is going to be the Battle Lab equivalent.
Naval Shipyard - Unlocked at the middle of the WW1 era with first heavy warships. Acts like the vanilla Drydock which already adds
and
. Required to build all naval units other than early transports which are your galley equivalents.
??? - secret for now.
Unit Classes:
I have a rough idea of the unit trees that I want to have and how I want them to upgrade through the ages. I can't really post everything here in a reasonable manner so I'll just outline the base concepts:
Infantry - Your basic infantry unit unlocked at the start of the game. It's cheap, has 1
and respectable but meh
. Overall think warrior. It's claim to fame and role overall will be that it is a decent defensive unit and the only one that has absolutely no building or resource requirements. And of course that it is the cheapest combat unit of all. So even in the very late game you will be building units from this line in your new cities or if you need to spam out units fast.
Motorized Infantry - Unlocked in the early RA1 era or late WW1 era. Same stats as infantry but with 1 extra
. So it is strictly better but it costs slightly more
and it requires both the war factory and/or (not decided yet) the barracks to construct as well as access to oil. In the RA2 era it upgrades to mechanized infantry and gets AA interception chance (since that is what RA2 transport vehicles do).
Cavalry - This is the recon line. The original cavalry unit is unlocked in the 1st era and requires no buildings and horse as a resource. It upgrades into various vehicles in the later eras. I am undecided between them becoming
light tanks or
recon vehicles. But it ends with things like the nod buggy. Either way think scout and explorer basically. The vehicle versions will require oil and a war factory to construct.
Tank - The tank line is your city attack unit line. They are the only units that can get City Raider promotions and they get a bonus vs turrets. So the reason you build these is explicitly to break cities and forts with infantry and motorized infantry being your main combat units for a stack. A role which becomes extra important once you understand how I intend turrets to work.
The first tank is unlocked in the WW1 era and has 1x
. And in the RA1 era it upgrades to 2x
. In the RA2 era you get the next upgrade called modern tank with the Tank Destroyer and Tesla Tank being UU's. And than in the 2nd Tiberium era you get the last upgrade which gives you things like the Prism Tanks, Stealth Tanks and the GDI walkers.
All tanks require the war factory and access to oil to construct.
Heavy Infantry / Anti Tank - First unlocked in the RA1 era this line starts with standard rocket soldiers and than it upgrades into proper heavy infantry like Tesla Troopers in the RA2 era finally ending in the Tiberium eras with Cyborgs and Wolverines. Units from this line do the same role as regular vanilla anti tank units. They all require the barracks to construct.
Anti Air - Same as vanilla anti air. This line starts in the RA1 era with a rocket trooper and continues on like this through the RA2 era. In the tiberium era it upgrades to AA vehicles.
The infantry units require barracks and the vehicles require a war factory and access to oil. And yes, this does indeed mean you will be able to build the old units in later eras if you have different production buildings in your cities. It might sound like a bad idea but when you think about it AA is AA and all you are sacrificing is some
. And they cost fewer
.
Paratroopers - Same as vanilla paratroopers. They are unlocked in the RA1 era and upgrade through the eras to remain relevant in terms of
. Late era paratroopers are flavored as GDI drop troopers. They require the barracks to build.
Marines - These start off as vanilla marines and upgrade into racketeers. The later are basically the infantry equivalent of helicopters. As in they act like CIV4 helicopters but without the bonus vs tanks. They can capture cities however so I think that's a good trade. All units from this like require the barracks to construct.
Artillery - The artillery line is something I am unsure of in terms of flavor but I am sure in terms of mechanics. The later are basically CIV4 artillery but with an added ranged attack with range 1 because that's something I always thought artillery should have. You get your first artillery unit in the WW1 era and they upgrade through the line into just more mobile artillery units. They require the Arsenal to construct, even the vehicle versions. The later will require oil though.
Super Tank / Mammoth Tank - The most powerful ground units in the game with both high damage and an AA interception chance. Otherwise they are basically really huge tanks with more
. So the same things apply like no defensive bonuses and stuff.This line is likely only going to have two steps the first being the OG mammoth from RA1 (with the Apocalypse and Overlord being UU's) and the second being the Mammoth II from Tiberium Sun and its lore appropriate UU equivalents.
These units will be intentionally overpowered but balanced by the fact you will only be able to build a limited amount of them per civ (same mechanics as missionaries and executives) and that they will require both the war factory and arsenal to build. The 1st upgrade will require either oil or uranium (not decided yet) and the 2nd Tiberium to construct.
Turret - Turrets are basically what they were in the games. That being powerful but immobile defensive units meant to protect cities and forts. If anyone is familiar with the FFH Leash mechanics you'll know what I mean here. If not, look it up because that's what I intend to use once I get to DLL work. But basically these units will be powerful but defense only units. And the only way to reliably crack them will be to either bring overwhelming numbers, bomb them with artillery and air power until weak or bring tanks.
The line will start with a pillbox in the WW1 era and advance through Tesla and laser towers later on. The later will get a ranged attack and possible even collateral damage to make them even nastier.
Finally I also intend to eventually add the RifE mechanic of having a turret spawn when ever you build a fort improvement. I also intend to make them cost extra upkeep to balance them and make it so that you don't just want to spam turrets. Again a RifE mechanic. But these two will be post-beta additions.
In fact, just look at the RifE fort commanders and you'll get what I want to do here. It's basically a strait copy of those with some reflavoring and improvements.
I also have ideas for sea and air units but I don't want to post everything right now because it would be overwhelming.
This should do it for now. We'll get to civics, religion and other things at a later date. Now it's up to you guys to comment.
