C&C universe civs

[PPQ_Purple]

Since my partner in this is being silent here is an update to hold the world over.

For those times when you just can't be satisfied with vanilla BTS effects.

 

[<Nexus>]

Don't worry, I am not all gone

I've been thinking and have come up with some suggestions for city names. Here they are in no particular order:

Spoiler :

Enoch,
Nod,
Temple Prime,
Hand of Nod,
Fist of Nod,
Pyramid of Nod / (alternatively Nod Pyramid),
Temple of Nod,
Obelisk of Light,
Temple of Divination (alternatively Pyramid of Divination),
Temple of Ascension (alternatively Pyramid of Ascension),
Cabal,
Genesis Pit

I think it is too much "of Nod". In general I do like the speaking names but I'd avoid "something of something" names. I'm thinking about something like this:
Enoch
Scorpionden
Confessionhill
Stingshrine
Daggerflame
Abaddon
Faithpyre
Firewell
Slavikburg
Hereticsfall
Dessertrose
Caliban
Devilstongue
Montauk
Ascensionpoint
Oxannapolis
Marcionsgate
Ichoria

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Honestly I don't like 99% of those as they just sound randomly made up.

I also don't like those named after characters for the same reason you don't like the idea of taking names from existing civs. It implies that the Tiberium Sun continuity exists and is done when the game might be in an era millennia before it could be. Also because I can't see Kane ever naming bases like that.

 

[<Nexus>]

Honestly I don't like 99% of those as they just sound randomly made up.

Like real life city names

I also don't like those named after characters

My goal was to have names that are Nod related.

It implies that the Tiberium Sun continuity exists and is done when the game might be in an era millennia before it could be.

I have no problem with that. It is true about all Civs in the game: America can start in the ancient era, Babilon can survive to the modern era, etc.

Also because I can't see Kane ever naming bases like that.

I found no evidence of Kane naming any bases ever
But maybe I missed something.

So the problem is that Nod never had any cities that it could truly call it's own. In Civ terms: Nod never settled any city, only conquered or culture flipped.
So having a city list is very problematic.
I thought that there is place here for artistic freedom, creative imagination.

An other solution is that we make no list at all and let the game randomly pick names from the lists of Civs that are not present in the actual game. In this way Nod would always end up with different names but often with core cities of other Civs (and GDI) like London, Paris, Washington, etc.II mean it is technically possible but I don't think this is a good solution either.

It would be really nice if others would also join our little brainstorming and give some input on it. This one vs one is not leading us far right now

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I found no evidence of Kane naming any bases ever
But maybe I missed something.

It's a thematic remark. Kane is very much a charismatic self centered egomaniac with a messiah complex. He is not the sort of person that would name cities for his generals. Can you imagine Stalin naming cities after his generals?

As for the rest my reply is simple. Real city names weren't trying to fit a theme. They just randomly happened. We are. And honestly I think we are both failing.

Everything we did so far, but especially that last list you made just feels... off to me. I just find them to be cheesy and really forced. Especially those few named after characters. Those really just felt like too much. The rest... I think we can work with, sort of. Basically hear me out here and you'll see what I mean.

Long story short I did a lot of thinking. And I think I know why we are going wrong and what we should do to rectify that.

Put simply I really think that the direction we should be heading in with this is trying to get into Nod's head, so to speak. How would the Brotherhood of Nod name cities if it founded them? And honestly I think that to do that we might be better served drawing from the Nod mythology and theme rather than existing base names or people.

Basically think of SMAC city names. I assume you have played Alpha Centaury. If not, stop everything and play that game. It's the only one in the Civ series better than CIV4. Anyway, Nod as a faction has a lot more in common to SMAC factions than it does to any culture, religion or state from our history. And so I think we might do best to try and mimic that sort of naming style.

And in that game each faction had a bunch of names all influenced by their ideology and core theme rather than any significant person or place.
Like the Hive didn't call it's cities "Yangtown". Instead they had "Worker's Nest" and "Discipline Tubes", stuff that invoke the image of a human hive. Equally the Gaians called their cities things that invoke an ecological utopia such as "Gaia's High Garden" and "Children of Earth".

I think that really we should try and and look at Nod holistically and try to come up with names in that style that fit the prophecy and mythology of Nod. Basically look at their slogans and ideology and try to come up with something that evokes that.

Now that is admittedly easier said than done. And we will probably have to fill the ranks out with names from our previous lists. But I really think this should be the focus for at least the first several cities.

It would be really nice if others would also join our little brainstorming and give some input on it. This one vs one is not leading us far right now

YES, yes it would.


PS. A small note. If you are naming cities after characters from a Slavic ethnic background such as Slavic or Oxana you should probably not go for the Germanic -burg but the Slavic -grad suffix. That's the standard one used in Slavic languages for this role. Example: Stalingrad, Leningrad, Petrovgrad etc.

 

[<Nexus>]

It's a thematic remark. Kane is very much a charismatic self centered egomaniac with a messiah complex. He is not the sort of person that would name cities for his generals. Can you imagine Stalin naming cities after his generals?

Okay, you are right. I just tried to use those names, so that any Tiberian player would be familiar with them. I didn't consider, who is actually naming the cities.
Actually, it could be reasoned, that some cities are founded not by Kane but by his generals... But it's okay. I can let it go easily.

Put simply I really think that the direction we should be heading in with this is trying to get into Nod's head, so to speak. How would the Brotherhood of Nod name cities if it founded them? And honestly I think that to do that we might be better served drawing from the Nod mythology and theme rather than existing base names or people.

Well... that's exactly what I've been trying.

Scorpionden - Scorpion, Nod
Confessionhill - Confessor unit
Stingshrine - Sting of the scorpion
Daggerflame - Dagger = war; flame ~ flamethrower unit, and also purgatory
Abaddon - biblical reference: doom, destruction
Faithpyre - religion + fire
Firewell - fire
Slavikburg
Hereticsfall - Heretics will fall. Period.
Dessertrose - Ermmm... okay, this one just sounded nice
Caliban - I didn't want to include Cabal but a name that's form is a reminder of it
Devilstongue - need to explain?
Montauk - or this one?
Ascensionpoint - Kane's ascension
Oxannapolis
Marcionsgate

I think that really we should try and and look at Nod holistically and try to come up with names in that style that fit the prophecy and mythology of Nod. Basically look at their slogans and ideology and try to come up with something that evokes that.

Now that is admittedly easier said than done. And we will probably have to fill the ranks out with names from our previous lists. But I really think this should be the focus for at least the first several cities.

Okay, let's try that.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Anyway, while we try that here is something to hold us over. ETA on the finished model with all texture highlights to be done probably this weekend.

Spoiler :

 

[<Nexus>]

Okay, I tried to become a "Nod head" and this time imagine how Kane would name bases in the modern/trans-human era (instead of imagining an ancient organisations archaic naming for it cities).
This is all could come up so far:

• Peace Keep
• Unity Hold
• Purpose Camp
• Vision Field
• Prophet's Mark
• Powerpeace
• Divination Trail
• Shadow Council

I hope it's good for a start.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I won't be available until next week to think about this. In the meantime if anyone third wants to chime in we'd welcome it.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

To take a break from city names for a moment how good are you at leaderhead AI? Because I was thinking just what would Kane as a leader be. And what I've got is:

Likes:

• Spreading his own religion
• Research
• Espionage
• Beating up or vassalising weaker civs

Dislikes:

• Tech trading (Kane hoards alien tech)
• Opposite religions (like an extra negative on top of the usual)
• Civs that are stronger than him

Also I imagine that Kane should be made to prioritize victory types such as Space Race victory simply because Kane likes aliens.

Anything to add / comment on that list? And how would that translate into AI?

 

[<Nexus>]

It's a thematic remark. Kane is very much a charismatic self centered egomaniac with a messiah complex. He is not the sort of person that would name cities for his generals. Can you imagine Stalin naming cities after his generals?

I just happened to come back to this thought and I think it's not that right.

Spoiler :

"Tiberium is named after the Tiber river in Italy where it was first discovered." "Discovered by the Brotherhood, that is. And I named it after Tiberius Julius Caesar." - Kane commenting on a EVA

What is the relationship between Kane and Tiberius? Were they contemporaries? Allies? Was Kane his adviser, like he was for Stalin? Even his master?
Kane is very different from Stalin. Stalin wanted praise and worship. For Kane obedience was enough.
So I think it is possible for Kane to name bases or cities after other people. Especially if that person was useful tool for him. It's just fitting that a religious leader honors other exemplary persons of the faith by naming things after them. It's like saying: "Look at them! Follow their faith! And die for our course! "
I don't say that C&C characters are the best choice. Maybe we could use great conquerors like Tiberius.
It's still just brainstorming. Trying to get into Kane's head.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

True I guess. Although if we do include them I'd say put them near the end of the list of cities. I am actually working on a list that combines what I think is best from the whole thread with some commentary of mine. It will be up by the end of the week assuming I am not completely drained by work.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

And my long overdue post.

Vanilla Civs seem to have between 30 and 60 city names, depending on the civ. I think we should aim for at least 30.

I went through this whole thread and come up with my thoughts and a list that combines what I think is the best of all our proposals.
Feel free to disagree of course.

1. Nod - The idea of calling the capital Nod is really growing on me.

2. Prophet's Mark - I would nominate this for city slot #2. It just fits perfectly to be the 1st city founded after the capital. Great idea of yours.

3. Heretics Fall - I like your idea with this one. I just prefer it when the words are separate as it sounds cleaner. It also makes the names sound more like SMAC bases. As in like a name that was deliberately given as opposed to organically spawned from local language. Thus giving Nod that artificial feel that an ancient organization ruled over by a charismatic eternal prophet should have.

4. Confession Hill

5. Shadow Council

6. Enoch - I think we should have it simply because it's a fun Biblical reference to Kane. We shouldn't overdo it but one or two are fine. And having it around here is I think a nice place because it both implies Kane is using Biblical.references him self but also that he is referencing and not actually being "Kane the Biblical".

7. Temple Prime - This is the canonical name for the Nod HQ. So it has to be in there somewhere. And it sounds cool.

8. Ascension Point or maybe Ascension Hill or Ascension Mound, something like that. Maybe even Ascension Tower. Either way good idea.

9. Divination Trail - I really like this one.

10. Scorpionden / Scorpion Den - Again, one I really like. And with this one honestly we can go either way.

11. Obelisk of Light - I really think the name and weapon is just too cool not to add to the list. But I'd put it in the bottom of the first third of names. Basically one of those names near where the list tapers off.

Now, we need to fill out the remaining 20 or so names. And at this point I say just add all the others like Devilstongue, Montauk, etc. as well as cities named after characters. Since they are this far down the list I feel they are more filler than anything. Just make sure to use the appropriate suffixes depending on the origin of the character.

I mean, I've newer really built 30 cities my self anyway so those down from 15 or something are in my mind basically filler. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[<Nexus>]

I start from the end:

I mean, I've newer really built 30 cities my self anyway so those down from 15 or something are in my mind basically filler. Maybe I am wrong.

I think I'm the same. Having a 40+ cities empire is really huge and half of them are not your own but conquered cities. At least that's my experience.

Now, we need to fill out the remaining 20 or so names. And at this point I say just add all the others like Devilstongue, Montauk, etc. as well as cities named after characters. Since they are this far down the list I feel they are more filler than anything. Just make sure to use the appropriate suffixes depending on the origin of the character.

Okay, than we need to sort them and set their order. Do you want to do it or should I do it?

6. Enoch - I think we should have it simply because it's a fun Biblical reference to Kane. We shouldn't overdo it but one or two are fine. And having it around here is I think a nice place because it both implies Kane is using Biblical.references him self but also that he is referencing and not actually being "Kane the Biblical".

We can make it even more " referential " by using it as Enoch's Cave or Enoch's Gate etc.

Temple Prime and Obelisk of Light for me are still unique buildings. The first replacing Palace and the second... err... something.
We can leave them in the list if you insist. In worst case I'll remove them from CoM version only. I have a plan for CoM to give all civs more unique content. If I do, than I'll certainly use use Temple Prime as a Palace replacement. But that's a different topic

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Okay, than we need to sort them and set their order. Do you want to do it or should I do it?

The ones I listed with numbers are in the order I suggest they should be. The stuff afterward is in my view more or less filler so you can do whatever.

We can make it even more " referential " by using it as Enoch's Cave or Enoch's Gate etc.

I am undecided on this. Part of me just really likes the reference to the "first city on earth" bit. And the fact it's not in fact the first city he founds...

Temple Prime and Obelisk of Light for me are still unique buildings. The first replacing Palace and the second... err... something.
We can leave them in the list if you insist. In worst case I'll remove them from CoM version only. I have a plan for CoM to give all civs more unique content. If I do, than I'll certainly use use Temple Prime as a Palace replacement. But that's a different topic

I'd keep them in the regular version simply because they sound cool and we need cool sounding names to fill out the list. But obviously if your mod expands to use those names in a different capacity you should remove it from the list that goes in your mod.

I am personally operating on the basis of making the vanilla version first and than you can adapt it to your mod. Mostly because it's easier than trying to do them in parallel and because I don't know enough about your mod to be functionally competent in offering any meaningful input in regards to it.


Speaking of unique buildings I was thinking that the obvious vanilla UB would be the "Temple of Nod". Now, I am not quite sure what it's actually supposed to be. But like I was thinking something either research or espionage related. Possibly like a courthouse replacement that gives extra 25% spy points. Or maybe like +20% spy points and +10% research points since the temples were both headquarters, centers for military and spying and also secret labs for mad scientists working on Tiberium stuff.

Something like that. But the idea is vague.

 

[<Nexus>]

Here are the sounds for Nod when selecting or ordering a unit.
I used Fanatics quotes from Kane's Wrath because in Tiberian Sun units have too few select/order sounds.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Speaking of adding stuff just how do we package this once it's done? I mean, I've newer made a new complete civ to a game. Is it like a module or something?
If so, do sounds work with that?

As for sounds I've not worked with those yet so I don't know how. But how hard can it be? I'll take a look at them when I get the chance.

 

[ramzay1945]

Please pay attention to this modification.
Models from Tiberium Wars can be converted to the .nif format quite easily.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/tiberium-essence

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Please pay attention to this modification.
Models from Tiberium Wars can be converted to the .nif format quite easily.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/tiberium-essence

Thanks for your interest.

I am aware of the C&C3 situation but I honestly dislike the look and feel of any game after Firestorm. So as far as my work is concerned the continuity ends after that game.
Plus it's no challenge and thus absolutely no fun to just extract and convert units. The fun is making everything from scratch.

Plus I have most all of the units I need done or half done anyway. I just don't want to publish most of them until they are just right. Like how I won't publish my infantry until I am done with the machinegun. And yes, there is a NOD machinegun infantry unit... Wait and see what I did for that.


PS. On the subject of C&C3 I actually didn't mind the plot in those games. In fact I liked the whole alien invasion plot line. But the army and art design in those games was just wrong. NOD is supposed to be the high tech faction with cyborgs and lasers and stuff and they basically turned them into the GLA. And GDI lost all its cool toys like walkers in favor of boring tanks.

It's like the plot was written by someone who respected the original games and the actual gameplay was designed by someone who newer even played them,

 

[PPQ_Purple]

For reference, here is my current unit roster:

(Done) Tank: Tick Tank (Tiberium Sun)
(Done) Modern Armor: Stealth Tank (Tiberium Sun)
(Done) Mechanized Inf: Attack Buggy (Tiberium Sun)

(Work started) Mobile Artillery: Artillery (Tiberium Sun)
(Work started) Mobile AA: Attack Bike (Tiberium Sun)

(Done) Infantry: Light Infantry (Tiberium Sun)
(Not yet started) Marine: Cyborg (Tiberium Sun)
(Not yet started) Paratrooper: Black hand - UU Paratrooper with +75% interception chance instead of +25% due to their stealth tech. (Renegade stealth trooper)
(Done) Anti Tank: Rocket Soldier (Renegade)
(Done) SAM Infantry: Rocket Trooper (Tiberium Sun)
(Needs finishing touches) Machinegun: Wait and see

(30% done) Jet Fighter - YF-22 (Tiberium Dawn)
(Not yet started) Gunship - Harpy (Tiberium Sun)
(50% done) Stealth Bomber - Banshee (Tiberium Sun)

So I am basically 50% done and know exactly what I want to do with the rest. It's just that I am a tad drained lately so it's hard to focus on just one unit and finish it.