C-IV Warlords SGOTM 04 Maintenance Thread

[da_Vinci]

New Question: If we find ourselves in the situation where Gandhi is suddenly at peace with us, will we be able to DOW him immediately, or will we have to wait 10 turns?

In worst case.. just contact me and I will put you back in war immediately

Might not be the worst case, might be the typical case should peace break out with Gandhi. The SGOTM 1 perm peace to perm war event suggests to me that what is locked is not the war state, but the ability to negotiate the war state. If that is true, then if peace breaks out with Gandhi, we may not be able to ever declare war on him.

Which might mean that all peace events will need to be fixed by Gyathaar, in which case perhaps we need a game rule such as "if peace should break out beween the human and Gandhi, immediately save and upload and PM Gyathaar to restore the war state. Perform no game actions in a peace state with Gandhi."

@AlanH: the inner pedant comment lives on only because it is so true of all of us, not because I want to poke you in particular with it. (well, except for that initial PM ) I think that a robust inner pedant is a requirement in the personality that likes to play Civ.

dV

 

[Gyathaar]

Might not be the worst case, might be the typical case should peace break out with Gandhi. The SGOTM 1 perm peace to perm war event suggests to me that what is locked is not the war state, but the ability to negotiate the war state. If that is true, then if peace breaks out with Gandhi, we may not be able to ever declare war on him.

Only way you can end up in peace with Ghandi is if he becomes the vassal of another civ. When that happens you can not declare on Ghandi, but you can declare on his Master...

However, there are 2 ways you could be prevented from declaring on the master due to the 10 turns of grace period after a peace deal:

1) Ghandi is a vassal of another civ, and you deliberately make peace with the Master... This is something that you should NOT do.

2) You just made peace with a civ, and then Ghandi capitulate to this civ before 10 turns has passed... this would be the case where I would have to manually put you at war.

 

[LowtherCastle]

In worst case.. just contact me and I will put you back in war immediately

In other words, AlanH's Game Rules really oughta wanna explicitly state, in addition to the above:

No trading of any kind with Gandhi other than a simple DOW as needed.

 

[LowtherCastle]

1) Ghandi is a vassal of another civ, and you deliberately make peace with the Master... This is something that you should NOT do.

But it may be our game interests to declare peace with the AI, aside from wanting peace with Gandhi. In that case, I assume we should make peace with him and then immediately send you a save for alterations, right?

(This is hilarious. Not sure you knew what you were getting into on this one, Gyathaar... )

 

[AlanH]

In other words, AlanH's Game Rules really oughta wanna explicitly state, in addition to the above:

No trading of any kind with Gandhi other than a simple DOW as needed.

I think it's explicit enough as I stated it. " ... you must immediately declare war on Gandhi or his master if you ever find that you are at peace with him". "Immediately" leaves no opportunity to trade with him!

 

[da_Vinci]

But it may be our game interests to declare peace with the AI, aside from wanting peace with Gandhi. In that case, I assume we should make peace with him and then immediately send you a save for alterations, right?

(This is hilarious. Not sure you knew what you were getting into on this one, Gyathaar... )

Can you be at war with a vassal but at peace with his master? If we make peace with the master (and thus peace with Gandhi), maybe Gyathaar can't fix that (as a war only with Gandhi)? So then making peace with Gandhi, and making peace with Gandhi's master are both forbidden? Perhaps ought to be, if Gyathaar can't reset war with Gandhi without resetting war with master.

So if Gandhi ends up vassal to a civ we are at war with, then in effect we are also at perm war with the master civ, until Gandhi is no longer a vassal? And does Gandhi becoming vassal automatically put us at war with the master? Or does that depend on peaceful or capitulation route to vassaling?

Where is the aspirin?

dV

 

[Gyathaar]

The vassal always has the same state of war and peace as the Master.. so in order to always be at war with Ghandi, you have to never make peace with a potential master of Ghandi

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I think both Alan & Gyathaar have made it quite clear.

We are at war with Ghandhi. Period. If by some chance you are not at war then you declare war immediately. No trades, no gifts,no nothing. If you can't declare immediately because of game mechanics then you PM Gyathaar to manually fix your save so that you are at war.

Let's just concentrate on the game please.

EDIT: Crosspost with Gyathaar's clarification.

 

[pigswill]

The argument while interesting in a pedantic legalistic sense is probably not that big an issue. If Gandhi is so weak that he either gets conquered or vassalises voluntarily he's probably not going to be building a spaceship before the 21st century!

 

[AlanH]

I am only concerned that players should not spend all their valuable playing time looking for short cuts to victory that go against the spirit of the game as designed. If a team happens to find a new and unknown bug in the Warlords implementation of permanent war, I don't really think that would be a fair way to determine the awards.

 

[DeafDolphin]

IMO, if you're a good player, you don't need shortcuts or cheats. Trying to find loopholes is what bad players do. :\

And before anyone takes offense, this is a general statement, not directed at any one person.

 

[DaviddesJ]

I think it will be very difficult to let Gandhi win, without the option to make peace, give him some techs, then declare after 10 turns.

I hope you're right. I'm looking forward to seeing all of you suckers lose!

 

[LowtherCastle]

The vassal always has the same state of war and peace as the Master.. so in order to always be at war with Ghandi, you have to never make peace with a potential master of Ghandi

Right. Of course.

Sorry, I didn't think that one through properly.

 

[Big Pig]

I'm looking forward to seeing all of you suckers lose!

Ummm - that's the point of this variant isn't it?

 

[BLubmuz]

I hope you're right. I'm looking forward to seeing all of you suckers lose!

There's surely a feeling between us...

dunno how SG4 will go, but i can bet we'll get a laurel grom SG3

"let's stop this endless war and declare peace?"

anyway the laurels go to the faster loser

 

[da_Vinci]

I have noticed that the "all" check box on the team summaries in progress and results only affects the first 7 teams on the list ... perhaps a leftover from the split lists in SGOTM 3?

dV

 

[AlanH]

I have noticed that the "all" check box on the team summaries in progress and results only affects the first 7 teams on the list

Pleased to see someone attempting to use the facilities. Fixed it.

perhaps a leftover from the split lists in SGOTM 3?

Actually, no. It was the ghost of the non-playing Mac team disrupting the Javascript array

 

[da_Vinci]

Actually, no. It was the ghost of the non-playing Mac team disrupting the Javascript array

Hmmm ... I thought Macs were supposed to solve problems, not cause them ...

dV

 

[AlanH]

Quite right. No problem with the Macs, just too few Mac players.

 

[Gosha190]

Is it possible to show Gandhi progress diagrams for each team in an additional window as for team's progress?