C2C Advanced Civics 2.0

[CIVPlayer8]

Hmm, you might've missed something if you are getting that invisible power civic. And yes, I did reduce the civicInfos to almost nothing. The reason for this is to get rid of no longer needed civics, such as President and Parliament. I don't know about requiring SVN, I thought you could run it without SVN. Anywho, make sure you follow the directions in the opening post, if you did and your still getting errors, tell me. Also... I had no idea of this mods instability. My own computer crashes quite often, but that is because I have a bad computer. Maybe the errors are caused by the errors in the XML, or maybe it's your computer as well? That's all the advice I can give. I'm still relatively new at this modding thing. Good luck

 

[MarisellaB]

I have some futuristic civic ideas, would you like some help?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Recently installed this and besides getting some error messages when booting up (something about conflicts or not finding leaderheads, I'm not sure) it worked fine for the most part. The default civic for Power seemed to have no entry or name or information besides enabling construction of the Field of the Cloth of Gold Gold. Nothing went wrong for some time but some turns the game just aborts without so much as a warning message. Nothing, it just ended.

I went through the files to see what might have gone wrong. I was suspicious of one before I started - CIV4CivicInfos is broken. I knew I should have been more suspicious when I noticed that the file was 6kbs compared to the original file's 566kb. I've switched back to the original file and whilst the unnamed default civic for Power is still set (hey, turns out it was Nobility), I no longer get the initial messages at the start about missing files or whatever.

And then it wordlessly crashed anyway when I tried to move a unit. Or sometimes half way through changing turns - as is, its finding new reasons to crash just about every turn.

I really like the idea of this mod, applying ever increasing complexity and choice which, for me, is part of what made RoM and C2C so darn intriguing but since installing it, the game has gotten ever more unstable for me. Is there anything I can do?

Edit: Am I supposed to have the SVN installed? As is, I'm seeing things in the tech tree I hadn't seen before and I don't know much about the SVN.

You would have done better to copy the one from the module folder and renamed it. Copy Assets/Modules/Civplayer8/Advanced Civics/CP8_CIV4CivicInfos.xml to Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4CivicInfos.xml. then edit the file and make sure that the gameinfo schema has the same name as the one in the gameinfo folder. That gets rid of all the problems with how things show up in the civics screens.

@CivPlayer8 I would set up your modmod compressed file so that all it requires is for it to be copied in. I'll provide a bit more detail soon.

Also your XML code refers to CIVIC_BANDITS even though there is no CIVIC_BANDITS eg

				<CivicAttitudeChange>
					<CivicType>CIVIC_BANDITS</CivicType>
					<iAttitudeChange>-2</iAttitudeChange>
					<Description>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_ATTITUDE_DOOM</Description>
				</CivicAttitudeChange>

 

[CIVPlayer8]

I have some futuristic civic ideas, would you like some help?

Well of course! I'm always looking for new ideas, ESPECIALLY those for the future.

You would have done better to copy the one from the module folder and renamed it. Copy Assets/Modules/Civplayer8/Advanced Civics/CP8_CIV4CivicInfos.xml to Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4CivicInfos.xml. then edit the file and make sure that the gameinfo schema has the same name as the one in the gameinfo folder. That gets rid of all the problems with how things show up in the civics screens.

@Dancing Hoskuld, that would be great! I'll look into it right after I finish my current project. Oops, sorry about the banditry error. I'll fix it come next update.

 

[strategyonly]

Well of course! I'm always looking for new ideas, ESPECIALLY those for the future.

@Dancing Hoskuld, that would be great! I'll look into it right after I finish my current project. Oops, sorry about the banditry error. I'll fix it come next update.

@DH,

PM me how how this modmod is going, somethings look good , some not so much . .? Tell me what you think, thx.

 

[Samael]

I've switched to using the file suggested and I'm getting the pop-up error messages that I didn't get when I used the original file in it's place.

Tag: CIVIC_PARLIAMENT in INfo class was incorrect
Current XML file is: modules\Custom Leaderheads\Van der Donck\Van_der_Donck_CIV4LeaderHeadsInfos.xml

then a similar one about CIVIC_BANDITS. This is what I had before and the game still goes on to boot up. I can still load my game, though it asks if modifiers should be recalculated (to which I click yes). Once again, Nobility is missing from Power - its there and the slot is at the bottom now, but the name and most of its effects are totally missing and now my current Power Civic is Junta. The order of civics now makes sense, at least - Militia is actually at the top of Soldiers instead of in the middle. No matter what I do though, it seems the mod just hates Nobility for me.

This doesn't change a thing about the fact its crashing without any warning, not even a complaint to say it was out of memory. The game just disappears. Until stability improves, I'm afraid I'm going to probably play without it. Kinda wish it was an option of the main game so that it might receive full support because I'm way interested in this. I've reverted to my C2C back up... and I've got nothing but warning messages before it's starting so I think something might have gone terribly wrong on my end. I think I might have to go from scratch and try the modmod again. I've been using C2C v23, to the best of my knowledge but I redownloaded it now in one file (which has definitely changed from the last time I downloaded it so I don't know). I'll see how it goes.

As an aside, I really like it, which is why I'm kinda going nuts about trying to get it to work, but I think it could maybe do with a few tweaks here and there. Particularly to new options of Military. I can't see a good reason to use Formation, say, over Tribal Warfare. A slight increase in Melee Unit building isn't worth a 15% decrease in every other kind of production for units, especially when that change creates anarchy and costs money through upkeep. So I've got a suggestion: how about the military civics give XP or unique promotions to certain kinds of units? Formation might means that all Melee Units train with Shock I, say, or only melee units begin with a little extra XP, Cavalry might grant Flanking promotions to all new trained Cavalry. Alternatively, if its possible, the civics could grant a promotion to all units of a certain type whilst active - a unique promotion to prevent it overlapping with promotions already purchased - maybe something that grants a flat bonus or increases XP gain for those units by 50%. Or perhaps a decrease in maintenance cost for units of a certain type. For example, Cavalry could represent Hordes - instead of a production bonus, the cost of supporting Cavalry could be decreased and Cavalry could obtain additional gold from pillaging.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There are three XML problems with this at the moment none really affect anything for testing purposes. One is an event the other two look like leader stuff.

This doesn't change a thing about the fact its crashing without any warning, not even a complaint to say it was out of memory. The game just disappears.

Disappearing with out warning is usually a graphics problem. Post a save from just before it happens along with the mini dump file in the Bts folder.

Kinda wish it was an option of the main game so that it might receive full support because I'm way interested in this.

It wont until the main modders agree that it is a good fit with C2C and that means we need to test it besides doing our usual stuff and fixing bugs. It all takes time.

@CivPlayer8 I am a bit worried about the fact that some of the choices have descriptions that go "over the page" and make it difficult to see what the real effect is. (see the first two pics.)

The third pic shows the problem in the power civic group. There appears to be an undefined option.

So far I can't see the point of the Military civic, and slavery just does not fit well in any civics including the old one. I really think we may need another civic to cover all the differing aspects of that.

Tomorrow I hope to get time to look at the interactions between civics and the individual civic options a bit more closely. The coinage one needs something because going from no coinage to metals made to big an impact - I went from strugling to loaded.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

I've switched to using the file suggested and I'm getting the pop-up error messages that I didn't get when I used the original file in it's place.

Did you try re installing it with the instructions in opening post?

The order of civics now makes sense, at least - Militia is actually at the top of Soldiers instead of in the middle. No matter what I do though, it seems the mod just hates Nobility for me.

I have no idea how to fix the order of the civics Actually, my modmod aimed to eliminate some civics, one of them being Nobility. Re installing might help, but I might replace current installation method with a better one, so I'd hold off on re installing.

As an aside, I really like it, which is why I'm kinda going nuts about trying to get it to work, but I think it could maybe do with a few tweaks here and there. Particularly to new options of Military. I can't see a good reason to use Formation, say, over Tribal Warfare. A slight increase in Melee Unit building isn't worth a 15% decrease in every other kind of production for units, especially when that change creates anarchy and costs money through upkeep. So I've got a suggestion: how about the military civics give XP or unique promotions to certain kinds of units? Formation might means that all Melee Units train with Shock I, say, or only melee units begin with a little extra XP, Cavalry might grant Flanking promotions to all new trained Cavalry. Alternatively, if its possible, the civics could grant a promotion to all units of a certain type whilst active - a unique promotion to prevent it overlapping with promotions already purchased - maybe something that grants a flat bonus or increases XP gain for those units by 50%. Or perhaps a decrease in maintenance cost for units of a certain type. For example, Cavalry could represent Hordes - instead of a production bonus, the cost of supporting Cavalry could be decreased and Cavalry could obtain additional gold from pillaging.

I'm glad you like it, I made it for myself and figured others might like it as well. You're right about the military civics, Tribal Warfare is too OP, and Formation could use a small boost. Hehheh, whats funny is I had the same idea! I'm just finishing up where each military civic has their own unique promotion, and whats even more is my promotion for Formation is "Shock 1", and my promotion for "Cavalry" is "Flanking 1". Funny how we had the same idea. I don't thin a civic can reduce upkeep costs of a certain type.

@CivPlayer8 I am a bit worried about the fact that some of the choices have descriptions that go "over the page" and make it difficult to see what the real effect is. (see the first two pics.)

Hmm... *Sighs* Yeah, I'll just have to take away some of the effects.

The third pic shows the problem in the power civic group. There appears to be an undefined option.

I've been thinking a lot about your extract install method, and I'm going to go with it, hopefully clearing up many errors.

So far I can't see the point of the Military civic, and slavery just does not fit well in any civics including the old one. I really think we may need another civic to cover all the differing aspects of that.

Working on some "Tactics" buildings unique to Military civics, might add some flavor to them. As for the slavery issue, why no just make it an ordinance?

The coinage one needs something because going from no coinage to metals made to big an impact - I went from strugling to loaded.

You were struggling money-wise in the prehistoric era? Metals will be nerfed, along with coinage, especially coinage!

 

[anunknownman]

i just wanna say this modmod has in my opinion one big flaw: unhappiness
the civics you made just give to much unhappuness which makes ruling large empires almost impossible (btw, im playing with the revolutions turned on, so i get a ton of rebels).

hope you intend on fixing it soon...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

1) New installing method - just copy over your Caveman2Cosmos/Assets folder replacing all files. See attached, I tidied things up a little bit.

2) You don't need a MLF file in your folder if you want them loaded in the order displayed in windows.

3) Folder names are best without spaces in them. If you do and you have certain art you wil end up with pink icons in hover over because BULL (iirc) can't handle spaces in folder names.

4) To avoid complications latter you should have a unique name for all your schema files. If you don't and the C2C ones are updated then you may cause other modules and the core files to come up with XML errors because the engine uses your C2C_ schema files rather than the core ones.

5) If you are updating a value in a building or unit (and others) you don't need all the XML just the bit you change. WoC handles this. Note it wont work for setting the value back to its default. It is not recommended in core areas as it makes maintenance harder or at least more work.

6) Same goes if you are adding to a list.

7) If you are changing a list or setting a value back to default you will need to use the bForceOverwrite tag and have the full definition.

8) Game text files only include your new stuff.

To "fix" some of the current XML will require changing core files. Some can be done in a friendly way like the one for the event. the others I am not so sure of.

The strange civic is occurring because of the two civic infos files in your module area. I need to look at them in a bit more depth to see what we can do to remove the problem.

Problem - with city limits on there is now a hard coded maximum number of cities I can have and it is less that I reckon I should be able to build. I have a ctiy limit of 9 due to civics!

i just wanna say this modmod has in my opinion one big flaw: unhappiness
the civics you made just give to much unhappuness which makes ruling large empires almost impossible (btw, im playing with the revolutions turned on, so i get a ton of rebels).

hope you intend on fixing it soon...

Not a flaw but a design feature May need some slight tweaking.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

i just wanna say this modmod has in my opinion one big flaw: unhappiness
the civics you made just give to much unhappuness which makes ruling large empires almost impossible (btw, im playing with the revolutions turned on, so i get a ton of rebels).

Really? I did decrease happiness, but your cities should still be very happy, especially with all the resources.

1) New installing method - just copy over your Caveman2Cosmos/Assets folder replacing all files. See attached, I tidied things up a little bit.

Thanks Dancing Hoskuld. I was actually gonna do it myself, but thanks.
Alright, I'll follow your advice for all the others.

7) If you are changing a list or setting a value back to default you will need to use the bForceOverwrite tag and have the full definition.

So if I wanted despotism to have no effect I would, in my module, create a civicinfos with bforceoverwrite activated?

To "fix" some of the current XML will require changing core files. Some can be done in a friendly way like the one for the event. the others I am not so sure of.

The strange civic is occurring because of the two civic infos files in your module area. I need to look at them in a bit more depth to see what we can do to remove the problem.

Many of the errors, including that invisible civic one, are stemming from files in the modules area. Example: Field of Cloth of Gold requires Nobility, so an invisible civic which allows Field of Gold is created.

As for that city limit, I thought they caused extra unhappiness based on city numbers, not limited the cities! I had no idea..

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

So if I wanted despotism to have no effect I would, in my module, create a civicinfos with bforceoverwrite activated?

No.

Many of the errors, including that invisible civic one, are stemming from files in the modules area. Example: Field of Cloth of Gold requires Nobility, so an invisible civic which allows Field of Gold is created.

This is where the use of force overwrite fixes things.

As for that city limit, I thought they caused extra unhappiness based on city numbers, not limited the cities! I had no idea..

It looks like having two civic options with city limits in them active means you can't have any more buildings at all! I still have to check this theory.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

So, what exactly does bForceOverwrite do?

I still have to check this theory.

Alright, remember to tell me when you find out!
And BTW, I think I have an upgraded version of your installation method, one with no errors. I'll check it and then release it.
Edit: Alright Dancing Hoskuld, I cannot for the LIFE OF ME figure out where this Alaric error is coming from. I've looked everywhere... I'm going to go ahead and release this new version, its perfect, except for that one error popping up.
Edit-Edit: Nevermind, I think I solved it...

 

[anunknownman]

Really? I did decrease happiness, but your cities should still be very happy, especially with all the resources.

well i uploaded a pic to show you exactly what i mean my empire is about to collapse any minute now!!

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Ohh! You might want to consider changing civics, heheh. It might be time for you to adopt a democracy.

 

[anunknownman]

hmmm.... guess your'e right but i can't get to it because it will cause me to found more religions which would make more revolutions, guess i'm stuck for now

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Some questions: 1. It says you only have 9 unworking citizens in that city ? Seems like it should be a lot more... 2. Why did you keep expanding in the first place? Didn't notice all your cities going bonkers?
For me personally, I like this mechanic. Large empires thousands of years ago didn't last for more than a generation or two. Well... Maybe China.

 

[MaxEd]

Not to mention the 25 happiness he can get from buildings, look at that list of options...usually that list get that long by ignoring that kind of buildings like forever...

NOTE: it says 9 unworking citizens because thats all the population that city have, thats correct...he cant have more unhappy citizens than the pop of the city, makes total sense and works that way...

NOTE2: he is probably playing on settler or something like that where you can push your civ to that point being so hard to trigger revolutions...

NOTE3: seeing that you obviously own the continent military-wise just finish cleaning it up (razing every enemy city instead of placing more gobernors) or just wait untill your tech level allows you to control so many cities...or...go for despotism and build a freaking lot of military units on every city...900 gold per turn gives you a lot of room for that...

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Ah, forgot to take a look at his population. Well, what's REALLY the problem is how that city is still managing to grow? And at a pretty fast pace also. Yeah, increase your military with despotism. And that completely inactive city has no effect on your economy, your economy is... Wow... Do you have coinage? It's kinda OP as of now..

 

[MaxEd]

The city still grows because c2c have a LOT of buildings giving food, maybe to allow cities to grow larger than in vanilla...im not sure exactly why...and yea, on lower than deity there is a freaking lot of gold even on ancient ages...