C2C Advanced Civics 2.0

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Edit: Is there a reason this mod can not simply be added to the main C2C file?

Let's see. Hydro had a knee-jerk reaction to someone entering his territory and Dancing Hoskuld (me) thought "Oh no not more civics that do nothing!".

The question of if they go into core is a complex one especially as "core" means something different to the players and the modders..

@CIVPlayer8 have you fixed the problem with city limits? IE can only have limits on one civic group? IE you have removed limits from all non-government civics?

Since I am back sooner than expected I can get back to testing and commenting on these.

I have played fairly extensively with this modmod on v23, and I have encountered no significant balance issues. The large number of civic options it allows make for a more interesting game, and a more realistic government. A few tweaks here and there may prove necessary but I have found nothing glaringly wrong with this mod-mod.

Good to know, it will make my testing easier.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Let's see. Hydro had a knee-jerk reaction to someone entering his territory

Wait, Hydro is in charge of civics? Never knew that... And I haven't yet, but I will release a new version in 5 minutes.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Wait, Hydro is in charge of civics? Never knew that... And I haven't yet, but I will release a new version in 5 minutes.

I made Garbage, Immigration, Education, Language and Agriculture Civics plus Anarchism, Primitive, Communalism and Irrelgion supplementive civics to the existing RoM/AND ones. Eduction, Immigration and Agriculture were based off some ideas that Afforess never got around to to however. I went in and added my take on it. Note that Garbage and Education were made before C2C was made and the others were made after.

In short before the team got so big we had to play many roles in the team. I worked with mostly planning, buildings, civics and icon/buttons. Since then I have expanded out to other areas.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Hydro's Immigration civic is what I call a non-event civic since I never see need to change from its first option. Same as your military civic.

Hydro's Language and Agriculture civics contain examples of stuff I think should be part of the tech tree instead. However I don't think the right tags are available so "live with it".

Two civics that probably belong in the government area but aren't are Plutocracy and Oligarchy. They have been discussed in detail elsewhere.

.... redownloading now.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Same as your military civic.

I know, but I think I nerfed it some.

Hydro's Language and Agriculture civics contain examples of stuff I think should be part of the tech tree instead. However I don't think the right tags are available so "live with it".

Hey, have you ever seen this mod? We might be able to do something with it... Edit: We WILL be able to do something with it

Two civics that probably belong in the government area but aren't are Plutocracy and Oligarchy. They have been discussed in detail elsewhere.

Yeah, maybe we can make "Oligarchy" and "Junta" two different options.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The problem is that there are only so many types of governments but so many variations on them.

If you read Plato then you will have seen his political cycle. Despot becomes Monarchy becomes Aristocracy (land owners) becomes Oligarchy (rich) becomes Democracy (citizen) which is replaced by a despot. Never is it a plutocracy - rule by the wise.

Monarchy may be hereditary or voted on. There have been single monarchs, dual monarchs - one for internal affairs and one for external affairs (eg traditional Sparta although they also had a supreme Priestess so perhaps they were a theocracy.) I believe one place tried 4 kings for a while.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I think there was at least one native American tribe that had a War Chief and High Chief in which both had equal power but one control military and the other controlled domestic affairs.

 

[Randomness]

IIRC most of the peoples around the Great Lakes had a system similar to the one you described. Then there was the Iroquois Confederacy which was a collection of these.

When dealing with civics, we need to do what is fun to play, not what is realistic, because in reality government is too complex and messy to model or categorize.

Also, I think what you have done so far with the civics is great. The original C2C ones were pretty good, but I like the direction this modmod is heading.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

IIRC most of the peoples around the Great Lakes had a system similar to the one you described. Then there was the Iroquois Confederacy which was a collection of these.

When dealing with civics, we need to do what is fun to play, not what is realistic, because in reality government is too complex and messy to model or categorize.

Also, I think what you have done so far with the civics is great. The original C2C ones were pretty good, but I like the direction this modmod is heading.

So... Do we want to add each and every little political system out there, or just the main ones? And thanks for liking this modmod I did spend lots of time with it balancing and all. And when you say the "direction", what do you mean?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

OK I am beginning to "get" these. Oligarcy is handled by the ownership civic. I am very confused by some of the options so we will need a simple version at some stage.

You have two sets of the Mont_carlo stuff in the download. Only one is needed the other causes an error. I also got an unexplained graphics error when I tried to use this with v24. I will try and hunt out the problem today.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

You have two sets of the Mont_carlo stuff in the download. Only one is needed the other causes an error.

Are you sure? Vokarya has two different MonteCarloCivicInfos, so I made two because that invisible civic was popping up again.

I also got an unexplained graphics error when I tried to use this with v24.

Is that with this modmod?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Is that with this modmod?

Yes, but I was trying to recover some of the stuff I was working on before I had a hard disk crash so it may have been in my stuff somewhere.

 

[Sgtslick]

Is it possible to list what each civic does or put in screen shots or something? That'd be great

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Is it possible to list what each civic does or put in screen shots or something? That'd be great

Every civic? I dunno... It's kind of a lot. I'll put in some screenshots though.

 

[Sgtslick]

Don't worry about it mate, would just be 'nice' thats all
Saves installing it and going into game just to look at them and then uninstalling (if you don't like).

 

[Azurian]

Should there be a Philosophy civic?
That focuses on the mentality of academic thinkers and general philosophical viewpoint of a time?

Some choices could be Mythological, Aristotelian, Geocentricism , Heliocentrism, Political Thought,

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

OK, working on this is back too my top priority. So far I like you government, economics and currency and think they fit well with C2C. As do your changes to the economic and education civics. Although there have been some recent changes to civics you may want to include, the split in the religion civics so Prophets and Divine Cult don't occur at the same tech for one.

I am still having a bit of trouble understanding the Politics and Soldier although I am leaning towards them being useful additions. However I just don't like the Military civic mostly because I don't see a use for it.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

I am still having a bit of trouble understanding the Politics and Soldier although I am leaning towards them being useful additions. However I just don't like the Military civic mostly because I don't see a use for it.

I'm glad you like the other civics, but I agree about the Military. It's just that I didn't want to get rid of Pacifism and M.A.D., as these don't fit in well with the Soldiers category.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

here is a file of a few screen dumps from these civics.

 

[Sgtslick]

here is a file of a few screen dumps from these civics.

thanks