C2C Balance Thread

Is it ok to start the game in the ancient era?
Developers do not support Non Prehistoric starts.
Strictly speaking, Ancient Era start should be functional, but you will encounter oddities and balance issues, and the AI will preform worse (problems getting worse the later era you start in). Better solution if you're looking to start again is with a higher gamespeed; Prehistoric Era is all about hunting animals (at the moment), so that's roughly the expected gameplay element of that era rather than just clicking end turn.
 
Is it ok to start the game in the ancient era? (I'm quite sick of clicking next turn in the prehistoric one)
Stop Playing on game speeds longer than 8000 turns (ie Snail, Eon, or Eternity) and you won't have that problem. In fact play Normal (2000 turns) or Long (4000t), you will have plenty to do each turn. UNLESS you are playing on a Duel map where there is only you and 1 AI.
 
Strictly speaking, Ancient Era start should be functional, but you will encounter oddities and balance issues, and the AI will preform worse (problems getting worse the later era you start in). Better solution if you're looking to start again is with a higher gamespeed; Prehistoric Era is all about hunting animals (at the moment), so that's roughly the expected gameplay element of that era rather than just clicking end turn.
Bad advice. Longer/ (higher) Game Speeds even if you hunt like crazy will cause the build que to be empty. Faster Game speeds do not have this problem. Eternity is Not the Recommended Game Speed nor is Snail anymore either. Normal, Long, Epic, and Marathon give much better game play. Unless you want to play Pit's UEM scenario. But even Blitz at 1000 turns will always give you something to do each turn.
 
Stop Playing on game speeds longer than 8000 turns (ie Snail, Eon, or Eternity) and you won't have that problem. In fact play Normal (2000 turns) or Long (4000t), you will have plenty to do each turn. UNLESS you are playing on a Duel map where there is only you and 1 AI.

I played on marathon. Those other game speeds you mention are ridiculous. Might go down a notch
 
Howdy,
I wonder what choices I need to make at start to not have those might level-ups. I believe this makes the game to cheesy.
 
Howdy,
I wonder what choices I need to make at start to not have those might level-ups. I believe this makes the game to cheesy.
What "might level ups"? Details please.
 
Well, I should know - they're my favorite second half of the combo with "Merged units", lol.
Fairly useless otherwise, because adding [1 STR] to a Solo unit with [7 STR] is fairly mild.
[7 STR] => [8 STR]. (+14%)
But adding [1 STR] to a Merged unit with initial base [3 STR] is a huge boost, lol.
[3 * 1.5 = 4.5 STR] => [4 * 1.5 = 6 STR]. (+33%)
Quite a difference, ya know.
 
Howdy,
I wonder what choices I need to make at start to not have those might level-ups. I believe this makes the game to cheesy.
You can turn them off by removing them in the xml or commenting them out. Or just turn off Size Matters I guess. Another way to limit them a lot would be more xp for promotions or give them a higher level prerequisite. Quality up promos are a LOT more influential and past str 10 or so, +10% combat means more.
 
So the populist 'negative' trait is completely broken. +60% food from trade can create a loop to infinitely feed your cities. To explain, once you hit around 200 population, your base trade value is around 15, and with 20 trade routes (easily doable with techs and civics) that means 300 base trade. With civics and buildings you can get that food trade bonus up to 100%. However for each size increase of your city beyond 110 or so, you gain a +1% increase to trade value, meaning you get 3 extra food per population point growth which is enough to feed a citizen. Populist should have a 25% food from trade bonus at best, and it would still be quite good.

Furthermore, I find that merchants have been seriously neglected. There are no wonders or civics that really affect them, and the financial trait with 1 extra commerce per merchant is worse than the 1% bonus to gold from philosophical from artists. Not to mention there is a wonder that increases the commerce bonus of artists to 2, meaning there is very little reason to actually assign merchants to a city unless you are aiming for a great person to establish a corporation. Speaking of which, I couldn't find any techs that provide a great merchant (either that or they happened so rarely I didn't notice).

It should also be noted that gold isn't that great as a resource. Sure you can hurry production, but production in cities becomes so rampant it's difficult to compete with using gold for that purpose and you can only hurry one building at a time. There should be some way to dump a ton of gold into a city at once and make it construct multiple buildings, like production can, or perhaps there should be a toggle to double production at a cost of 2x the gold for each production.

Finally, engineers are simply too good. Even when I tell the city to focus on research, it still picks engineers over scientists.

On a less specific note, the traits are completely out of whack. Some affect the long game, while others affect the early game, and some simply aren't that good at all. For example spiritualist is just a major penalty, given that the only real reason for great prophets is to construct holy cities, and the empire receives a seriously happiness malice for each non-state religion. This should instead provide a 2% gold bonus for each religion in the city. The leader is spiritualist, not fanatic. Industrious is perhaps the best trait, outside of populist, as it affects the long game with trade routes and production bonuses on high production tiles, and the early game with wonder production (should be a 20% bonus instead of 50%) along with starting bonuses to beginner quarries.

Other than that, this was very well designed. Wonderful Job!

I really found I needed to think carefully about what buildings I constructed and what techs to research, and I had to fill up all my cities with cops and medical workers once I hit those population highs.
 
This mod is still very much in beta, loool. And shall be so for YEARS to come, if they keep the pace. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's a thing, yeah.
Speaking of hurrying buildings - you CAN buy multiple buildings per turn, but it means a LOT OF CLICKING.
Just put a building at the TOP of the queue, BUY it, REMOVE it, ADD another one, BUY it, rinse-repeat until you run out of money or buildings, then add all BOUGHT buildings back on TOP.
Next turn will complete ALL of them at once and also overflow your production to the next one on the list.
But, yeah, that's a LOT OF CLICKING, unfortunately.
 
This mod is still very much in beta, loool. And shall be so for YEARS to come, if they keep the pace. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's a thing, yeah.
Speaking of hurrying buildings - you CAN buy multiple buildings per turn, but it means a LOT OF CLICKING.
Just put a building at the TOP of the queue, BUY it, REMOVE it, ADD another one, BUY it, rinse-repeat until you run out of money or buildings, then add all BOUGHT buildings back on TOP.
Next turn will complete ALL of them at once and also overflow your production to the next one on the list.
But, yeah, that's a LOT OF CLICKING, unfortunately.
Reminder This IS a 4X Strategy Game still turn based. Much clicking is part of the decision aking process of a Turn based game. U want real time gonna have to find another game to play, I guess. :P
 
So the populist 'negative' trait is completely broken. +60% food from trade can create a loop to infinitely feed your cities. To explain, once you hit around 200 population, your base trade value is around 15, and with 20 trade routes (easily doable with techs and civics) that means 300 base trade. With civics and buildings you can get that food trade bonus up to 100%. However for each size increase of your city beyond 110 or so, you gain a +1% increase to trade value, meaning you get 3 extra food per population point growth which is enough to feed a citizen. Populist should have a 25% food from trade bonus at best, and it would still be quite good.

Furthermore, I find that merchants have been seriously neglected. There are no wonders or civics that really affect them, and the financial trait with 1 extra commerce per merchant is worse than the 1% bonus to gold from philosophical from artists. Not to mention there is a wonder that increases the commerce bonus of artists to 2, meaning there is very little reason to actually assign merchants to a city unless you are aiming for a great person to establish a corporation. Speaking of which, I couldn't find any techs that provide a great merchant (either that or they happened so rarely I didn't notice).

It should also be noted that gold isn't that great as a resource. Sure you can hurry production, but production in cities becomes so rampant it's difficult to compete with using gold for that purpose and you can only hurry one building at a time. There should be some way to dump a ton of gold into a city at once and make it construct multiple buildings, like production can, or perhaps there should be a toggle to double production at a cost of 2x the gold for each production.

Finally, engineers are simply too good. Even when I tell the city to focus on research, it still picks engineers over scientists.

On a less specific note, the traits are completely out of whack. Some affect the long game, while others affect the early game, and some simply aren't that good at all. For example spiritualist is just a major penalty, given that the only real reason for great prophets is to construct holy cities, and the empire receives a seriously happiness malice for each non-state religion. This should instead provide a 2% gold bonus for each religion in the city. The leader is spiritualist, not fanatic. Industrious is perhaps the best trait, outside of populist, as it affects the long game with trade routes and production bonuses on high production tiles, and the early game with wonder production (should be a 20% bonus instead of 50%) along with starting bonuses to beginner quarries.

Other than that, this was very well designed. Wonderful Job!

I really found I needed to think carefully about what buildings I constructed and what techs to research, and I had to fill up all my cities with cops and medical workers once I hit those population highs.
Are you letting the AI mange your city? You can turn that off. It helps. You can Hurry more than 1 building at a time. See post by Somebody613.
Finally, If you keep Crime in the negative and sickness there too, then the need to "fill up city with LE & Medic" is not necessary. You DO have to watch for Criminal Units though, Before they get into your cities on this note.
 
Are you letting the AI mange your city? You can turn that off. It helps. You can Hurry more than 1 building at a time. See post by Somebody613.
Finally, If you keep Crime in the negative and sickness there too, then the need to "fill up city with LE & Medic" is not necessary. You DO have to watch for Criminal Units though, Before they get into your cities on this note.
My cities were population 150+ and still growing. Crime and disease are a natural consequence of additional population, so I had to devote an armada of units to stopping this from becoming overwhelming. Yes on the letting the AI manage my cities. On that note, the autobuilder doesn't recognize certain buildings, like the pollution scrubbers and asteroid gatherer, among several others. Perhaps I should compile a list. Also submerged towns don't autobuild either. Lots of manual engagement. I prefer to manage my empires from a distance, once I get them up and running. Plus there is a special benefit to letting the AI builder do it's work, as once you research a tech, if they were just producing research or wealth or something, they will automatically construct those buildings on the first turn. I didn't know you could do that with the purchasing buildings thing. I'll have to utilize that next time there are a bunch of wonders to build. Production is so high in my cities that they just complete all the regular buildings in one turn.
 
My cities were population 150+ and still growing. Crime and disease are a natural consequence of additional population, so I had to devote an armada of units to stopping this from becoming overwhelming. Yes on the letting the AI manage my cities. On that note, the autobuilder doesn't recognize certain buildings, like the pollution scrubbers and asteroid gatherer, among several others. Perhaps I should compile a list. Also submerged towns don't autobuild either. Lots of manual engagement. I prefer to manage my empires from a distance, once I get them up and running. Plus there is a special benefit to letting the AI builder do it's work, as once you research a tech, if they were just producing research or wealth or something, they will automatically construct those buildings on the first turn. I didn't know you could do that with the purchasing buildings thing. I'll have to utilize that next time there are a bunch of wonders to build. Production is so high in my cities that they just complete all the regular buildings in one turn.
I totally hate how under-developed AUTO-anything is in C2C as of yet.
Probably why I can't play really long games, because it translates into incessant micro-management of dozens of cities OR just putting those cities on Research and forgetting about them.
On the other hand, I don't support the type of gameplay that leaves you with numerous opponents even by the middle of the tech tree.
In my game-player opinion, you either WIN the game around the time of gunpowder units - or you LOST it to the chore of simply managing everything.
And by WIN, I mean "conquered everyone by either eating them or vassalizing them".
If you still have 10 strong independent opponents by the time you roll out tanks... I consider this to be a LOST game, lol.
The only exception would be if there's an impassable ocean between you, so you need high-tech ships to even get to them.
But as far as your own continent goes - see above: you either WIN, or you LOSE by not-winning.
"Wasting time" is not what I consider an "allowed option", lol.
Well, that's how I play, of course - it's strictly subjective.
 
Definitely subjective :D. I prefer to see how massive I can get my cities and experience the entirety of the tech tree. I chose the most broken leader available (basil) and an currently aiming for population 400 cities. The only thing that would make Basil even more broken is if expansionist was replaced with progressive. Industrious, progressive, and populist is hands down the most powerful combination in the late game. There is actually still an AI in my game, that is vastly inferior to me, that I am just letting survive for reasons I don't really understand. It would be better if I just conquered him and played past the win condition, as he refuses to give me the only opium on the map, for reasons that I find utterly stupid (I'm winning too hard).
 
Definitely subjective :D.
You don't say, lol.
My point is that you don't really need other AI civs, if you gameplay goal is Tech Tree Exploration.
In fact, having active alive rivals is a BAD idea in such a case.
First, additional AIs slow down your turn time waiting, which then multiplies by thousands of turns and becomes real time HOURS.
Second, they aren't providing anything besides Continental Cultures that you couldn't achieve on your own - and probably do it faster and more focused.
Third, I was totally serious that it's a weird decision to postpone the map wipe until you are using stuff like Tanks - you are literally wasting your TIME there.
Fourth, you can always leave ONE rival AI to be the testing guinea pig for end-tech-tree warfare and similar stuff, but there's no reason to leave MORE than that.
Of course, again, this is subjective, but I think that my approach is simply more EFFICIENT, lol.
 
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