C2C Balance Thread

[JosEPh_II]

My cities were population 150+ and still growing. Crime and disease are a natural consequence of additional population, so I had to devote an armada of units to stopping this from becoming overwhelming. Yes on the letting the AI manage my cities. On that note, the autobuilder doesn't recognize certain buildings, like the pollution scrubbers and asteroid gatherer, among several others. Perhaps I should compile a list. Also submerged towns don't autobuild either. Lots of manual engagement. I prefer to manage my empires from a distance, once I get them up and running. Plus there is a special benefit to letting the AI builder do it's work, as once you research a tech, if they were just producing research or wealth or something, they will automatically construct those buildings on the first turn. I didn't know you could do that with the purchasing buildings thing. I'll have to utilize that next time there are a bunch of wonders to build. Production is so high in my cities that they just complete all the regular buildings in one turn.

1. what era are you in now.
2. How many AI on what size map to start game
3. Game Options used at set up
4. I turn the AI off so I can set my Specialists How I Want them, I do not like the way the AI uses Engineers to the max when my priests Artists, etc. can make Good input to my growing Empire

 

[JosEPh_II]

Definitely subjective . I prefer to see how massive I can get my cities and experience the entirety of the tech tree. I chose the most broken leader available (basil) and an currently aiming for population 400 cities. The only thing that would make Basil even more broken is if expansionist was replaced with progressive. Industrious, progressive, and populist is hands down the most powerful combination in the late game. There is actually still an AI in my game, that is vastly inferior to me, that I am just letting survive for reasons I don't really understand. It would be better if I just conquered him and played past the win condition, as he refuses to give me the only opium on the map, for reasons that I find utterly stupid (I'm winning too hard).

I do not know if the Game mechanics can handle a 400 pop city or Cities! Yikes!
Traits I also do not test the game with anything but basic Traits.
What Difficulty leel are you playing?

 

[JosEPh_II]

You don't say, lol.
My point is that you don't really need other AI civs, if you gameplay goal is Tech Tree Exploration.
In fact, having active alive rivals is a BAD idea in such a case.
First, additional AIs slow down your turn time waiting, which then multiplies by thousands of turns and becomes real time HOURS.
Second, they aren't providing anything besides Continental Cultures that you couldn't achieve on your own - and probably do it faster and more focused.
Third, I was totally serious that it's a weird decision to postpone the map wipe until you are using stuff like Tanks - you are literally wasting your TIME there.
Fourth, you can always leave ONE rival AI to be the testing guinea pig for end-tech-tree warfare and similar stuff, but there's no reason to leave MORE than that.
Of course, again, this is subjective, but I think that my approach is simply more EFFICIENT, lol.

I wish I could get to Tanks! I have not had a game reach that era in over 6 Plus years!
I do not play on Game with more than 4000 turns, most are 1K or 2K with an occasional 500turn for Testing.
Are you still Playing on the easiest level? Where the AI is Handicapped?

 

[Somebody613]

Are you still Playing on the easiest level? Where the AI is Handicapped?

Ahem: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-40-civs-yes-barbs-nightmare-eternity.691157/

 

[Evalis]

1. what era are you in now.
2. How many AI on what size map to start game
3. Game Options used at set up
4. I turn the AI off so I can set my Specialists How I Want them, I do not like the way the AI uses Engineers to the max when my priests Artists, etc. can make Good input to my growing Empire

I'm in the information era.
It was a duel map (continents) with more resources and only 1 opponent, which I have since killed off and am playing past the win condition. I took the advice of Somebody613 and it reduces my turn times.
It was settler difficulty as I had no idea how this game would play - that was perhaps a mistake as it resulted in zero challenge.
My cities are currently at 150 population and have reached the critical point of infinite growth with trade routes. The largest city is at 208.
The issue is the populist trait (+60% food from traderoutes). It's listed as a negative trait, but it's better than any of the positive traits available.
This should probably be +5-10% to food from trade routes to keep it as a negative. It would still be good, but not horribly broken as you do lose out on 30% commerce from trades.

The other most powerful trait is industrious, as it gives a whopping +35% production from trade routes. However, it really doesn't have a broken loop involved with it, and I would rather see the other positive traits improved to match it's power, rather than nerf this value. Although I understand if for programming purposes it was simply easier to reduce this to 10%

With 20 cities at population 150 and growing every 5 turns, I couldn't imagine manually assigning specialists - that would drive me insane.

The reason I said that progressive would be better than expansionist is that at massive city sizes the +1% to science from engineers would be truly monstrous. On it's own it isn't really overpowered, just with the combination of populist.

 

[JosEPh_II]

This is area that was not fully tested iirc for pepper2000 modmod inclusion into C2C. Pepper2000 used Hydro's +5 scale on all areas. For Civics it was way too much and would cause the game to have a rollover (exceed numerical limits) eventually.

I do not know if raxxo went thru any of this either. As after my initial reductions for the Civics area, anything past Atomic Era I gave to raxxo to modify down.

Imo the latter eras that Pepper2000 made were never fully tested. Everyone was to busy and too happy to have 5 new Eras in the Mod included. And I could never get a normal or Blitz game into those Eras Before a major code change was made.

If some coder IMHO would make it possible to start a Game of C2C in any of the last 5 Eras, or any Era for that matter, then proper testing could be done.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If some coder IMHO would make it possible to start a Game of C2C in any of the last 5 Eras, or any Era for that matter, then proper testing could be done.

Maybe it would be easier to determine where we have problems if we do by actually attempting to and if there's a repeatable crash that comes from it, save that game. I don't think it's not possible, just that sometimes there ends up being some kind of conflict to evaluate why a conflict came up. We have a shortage of coders but playtesters not as much.

BTW, Calvitix, long time player and translator here has stepped into the ring to do some coding and has learned how to quickly find the numerous bugs throughout the dog and property control unit AI problems which ultimately are big flaws in the whole AI ordering of stack composition issues. He's attacking the problem with some very intense and impressive degree of skill and its hugely impressive to see him go at it. Some recent updates to the SVN that include his work up to now are already in place and he's getting an understanding of the real issues and attacking these core problems that have stymied the whole mod development for years. VERY powerful coding and mathematical analysis and quick tools for reporting and charting - truly professional level application of skills here so we should all thank him obtrusively for his incredible contributions the last weeks. Quite a bit to conquer and he's doing it fast.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Thank You Calvitix! Much Appreciated for your hard work on this Mod!