C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

[Alex Costa]

Slave Specialist:
Pros:
•+2 production, +1 , +1 (Base)
•+1 (Caste)
•+1 (Feudal)
•+1 XP (Combat Trial)
•+3 , +1 (Mind Control)
•+1 (Martial Law)
•+1 , +3 (Free Market)
•+1 / (Centralized Labor)
Cons:
•+2 , -1 (Egalitarian)
•+1 , -1 / (Post-Labor)
•+1 (Democracy or Republic)
•+3 , -1 (Socialized Labor)

Sounds good however won't that make people avoid Socialized Labor?

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Sounds good however won't that make people avoid Socialized Labor?

Not if you have Emancipation in all your cities.

 

[CiverDan]

Question late Ancient/early classical game, switched from Junta to Sovereignity or magistrates and immediatey picked up +3 unhappy from "no taxation from representation" Rather crippling at this point in the game? what triggers that?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Question late Ancient/early classical game, switched from Junta to Sovereignity or magistrates and immediatey picked up +3 unhappy from "no taxation from representation" Rather crippling at this point in the game? what triggers that?

1st off, what version are you using? This is critical info as the Civics are in transformation mode. Do you use the SVN or vanilla v27 release?

Using REV or not?

Details are a Must Have.

Thanks
JosEPh

 

[BlueGenie]

I don't know about the Barbs but the AI on Deity doesn't like the Anarchy +1 unhappy per 10% tax. In effect that cripples the AI. I did try different things and one thing I found that helps a bit was to change the Handicap info, adding to both Health and Happy bonuses to the lower difficulties, to where Noble got 4/6.

In total my changes were:

Spoiler :

Settler and Chieftain: 5/7
Warlord and Noble: 4/6
Prince and Monarch: 3/5
Emperor, Immortal, and Deity: 2/4 (this is because we can not go lower due to the penalties in the start Civics. It's really too low already for certain Traits as it is.)

Best of course would be a combination of the two, increased health/happy for difficulty and change of the +unhappy for taxation. If possible what I was thinking is set a limit to where up to 30% taxation does not change the happy but every 10% after that does. Other than that I don't know how else to fix the AI's trouble with the taxation penalty in the early game except removing or setting by every 30% the taxation unhappy.

Cheers

 

[JosEPh_II]

Tried pointing out that taxation in 20 and 10% increments would cause AI to fail. But meh, lost in the shuffle again. Just like War Weariness >20%.

JosEPh

 

[BlueGenie]

*laugh* Sorry I wasn't here to support your cause then Joe but at least I'm here and verifying your point now. *wink*

Cheers

 

[ls612]

Tried pointing out that taxation in 20 and 10% increments would cause AI to fail. But meh, lost in the shuffle again. Just like War Weariness >20%.

JosEPh

Anarchy is the start civic, yes? Then that penalty may be appropriate, so long as it doesn't cripple growth (which it hasn't from my experience, the AI is really good at expanding in the Prehistoric and Ancient era).

 

[strategyonly]

Anarchy is the start civic, yes? Then that penalty may be appropriate, so long as it doesn't cripple growth (which it hasn't from my experience, the AI is really good at expanding in the Prehistoric and Ancient era).

And kicking butt after the Classical Era also, by 5 fold.

 

[ls612]

And kicking butt after the Classical Era also, by 5 fold.

Yeah, I've seen your game, you may want to play on a lower AI difficulty.

Also, after I get the Tech Commerce tags working I'm going to be making a new tag to allow alternate city limits, so as to try and address the issues laid out in my document about C2C balance.

 

[strategyonly]

Yeah, I've seen your game, you may want to play on a lower AI difficulty.

ahaha Nice try, i am only playing on Noble

Well that informs me then to play WITH Flexible Difficulty ON, i didnt have it on this game, wanted to see what would happen, guess i guessed wrong.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Anarchy is the start civic, yes? Then that penalty may be appropriate, so long as it doesn't cripple growth (which it hasn't from my experience, the AI is really good at expanding in the Prehistoric and Ancient era).

Early era Civics are not the ones that add the at +20% tax increments. Nor do the early 50% Distance from capital cost bother the AI it's the hanging on to these Civics past the Ancient that cripples the AI.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing though.

JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

it's the hanging on to these Civics past the Ancient that cripples the AI.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing though.JosEPh

I think you might have a point there?

 

[CiverDan]

I was using svn 4392. Determined it was from increasing my tax rate. Have since updated to latest svn. Looking at current civics, havent played through a game with them though. Early on the huge distance/no. of cities maintenance is really a non-issue with city limits on since you can't realistically build too many cities without making everyone unhappy. If the AI won't leave those civics when they can expand then its a problem.

 

[ls612]

Early era Civics are not the ones that add the at +20% tax increments. Nor do the early 50% Distance from capital cost bother the AI it's the hanging on to these Civics past the Ancient that cripples the AI.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing though.

JosEPh

I thought you were talking about the Anarchism civic, which is the start civic for Government. What were you talking about?

 

[Sgtslick]

I really am liking the civics at the moment, just fantastic work CIVPlayer8! I had just one little question/complaint there doesn't seem to be enough of a motive to change to written tradition over oral tradition. For +5% research you have to pay civic maintenance and.. can't remember was it +10% maintenance for distance or something. I probably should have written this when the game was open, it gives +15% build time to libraries and stuff doesn't it? I think this should be boosted to 35% and maybe even something like a +1 per city or something idk. I instinctively changed in my game then had a closer look and thought, fck that

 

[Tgls]

Just a thought on how the slave specialist should work:

When a slave is settled in a city, it would increase the city’s population by one, and place a slave specialist in the city (Like great people giving specialists). The slave specialist would give the penalties and bonuses listed above (Possibly remove the base anger/unhealthiness as it is represented by the population), and act as a limiter on the population, by not allowing the newly settled population to act as a specialists; the slave would only be able to work tiles or as the surplus population specialist. When using population to hurry production, it would remove slave specialists from the city first, and if only slave population was removed the unhappiness penalty would not be as severe. When the emancipation building is built within the city, all of the slave specialists are removed, allowing the former slave population to act as scientists/artists/etc.

It may be unclear what I mean by slave population, so I will give an example. If a city has a population of five and two slave specialists, the slave population would be two and free population would be three. If there were four scientist slots open in the city, there could only be three scientists, but there could be five citizens (The surplus population specialist).

 

[JosEPh_II]

I agree with Sgtskick about the difference between Oral and Written. I used to use Written but when i checked the difference in the Finance screen I went back to Oral. Written is too weak with too much baggage.

Still learning about the "slave" thing without having the Slavery Civic. Captured a Neander and got a Military Slave and thought What??!! I would have upgraded it to a Stone axe but didn't have the money so I "settled" it in the Capital for the +1 and +3 . The +1 and +1 was annoying but still manageable.

JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

Still learning about the "slave" thing without having the Slavery Civic. Captured a Neander and got a Military Slave and thought What??!! I would have upgraded it to a Stone axe but didn't have the money so I "settled" it in the Capital for the +1 and +3 . The +1 and +1 was annoying but still manageable.

JosEPh

Dont get to used to it, because DH informed me that he is going to re-do the slavery stuff completely. Since we are taking it out as a Civic.

I also like the (i guess new) Rev part whereas it gives YOU the player units from the countries that are under attack to you from them, this i REALLY like, i have no idea where that came from??

 

[BlueGenie]

I also like the (i guess new) Rev part whereas it gives YOU the player units from the countries that are under attack to you from them, this i REALLY like, i have no idea where that came from??

That has been there a while. A long while. At least since V17.

Cheers