C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

[Hydromancerx]

The Point is that Tribal Warfare in the Military Civic group does Not fit well After Banditry. And Yes the Capitals Are for Emphasis, but Not for Shouting (stupid internet rules). But take that however you will.

Banditry does not belong at Scavenging and never has. It belongs after Tribalism and actually after Sed Life. Banditry, as it's used in this mod, did not come about until well after Cities became more prolific and much later in the chain of history. Banditry also had/has a longer run than the Mod allows too. Banditry is not 1 person or animal taking something from another person or animal. Banditry is a complex organizational endeavor not petty thievery.

JosEPh

Then why do we have Thief units before Sedentary Lifestyle? Aren't they "bandits"? And by the time you got to Sedentary Lifestyle why would you want to choose Banditry if you had another civic like Tribal Warfare to choose?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Then why do we have Thief units before Sedentary Lifestyle? Aren't they "bandits"? And by the time you got to Sedentary Lifestyle why would you want to choose Banditry if you had another civic like Tribal Warfare to choose?

I would not consider them bandits. "Bandit Footpads" and "Bandit Horsemen" are bandits.

 

[AIAndy]

It already is. In fact I think we use the same code but it does not quite work with our civics set so is broken. Work on replacing it started but I don't know how far that got.

I added some code and an XML file but the code does not work yet / has some bugs still so it is not active.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Unless you want to call it "Clan Warfare" and have it at the Warfare tech.

I like this idea, I'll probably go with this.

The Point is that Tribal Warfare in the Military Civic group does Not fit well After Banditry. And Yes the Capitals Are for Emphasis, but Not for Shouting (stupid internet rules). But take that however you will.

Banditry does not belong at Scavenging and never has. It belongs after Tribalism and actually after Sed Life. Banditry, as it's used in this mod, did not come about until well after Cities became more prolific and much later in the chain of history. Banditry also had/has a longer run than the Mod allows too. Banditry is not 1 person or animal taking something from another person or animal. Banditry is a complex organizational endeavor not petty thievery.

JosEPh

You know, you might be right just this once. I think I'll have to agree with you, and banditry should really be pushed back some. Only problem is finding a good tech for it post-sedentary lifestyle, pre military training. The best I could find was Archery?

I for one want to see one set of civics last more than a version, so I'd agree with this.

Well, I have a grand "master plan" that I'm slowly working towards. It might be a couple more versions before we have a solid structure.

It already is. In fact I think we use the same code but it does not quite work with our civics set so is broken. Work on replacing it started but I don't know how far that got.

Well, this is one of those last priority things. Once I'm with the majority of civics work, only then will I move on to "Dynamic Civilization Names" or Complex Civilopedia Descriptions.

Yes, TW is a Town Watchmen BUT it is NOT a crime unit, rather, a crime fighting unit. Criminal units are units like Rogues and Assassins. It is also a Combat Class so I think you have a tag for free promotion by combat class in the civics, don't you? (If not I can try to provide you with one eventually...)

TBH, I don't know. We might, but I have no idea how to check.

 

[JosEPh_II]

You know, you might be right just this once . I think I'll have to agree with you, and banditry should really be pushed back some.

Heart don't Fail Me now!!!

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

TBH, I don't know. We might, but I have no idea how to check.

Ok... I'll take a look and let you know. If not, it's easy to make one but tough for me to do the AI on civic tags.

 

[ls612]

Well, I have a grand "master plan" that I'm slowly working towards. It might be a couple more versions before we have a solid structure.

Have you explained this plan anywhere? I just don't want to be totally in the dark about major changes to the mod, especially ones as far-reaching as new civic sets.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Have you explained this plan anywhere? I just don't want to be totally in the dark about major changes to the mod, especially ones as far-reaching as new civic sets.

Yup, first post in this thread. Although it lacks details, it shows the general plan I have for civics.

 

[Sgtslick]

Slaves should have more of a penalty imo, they're too powerful as is. Something like this.

Changes coming to Slaves:
Slave Specialist:
Pros:
•+1 , +3 commerce (Free Market) [ An extra +1 or two ]
Cons:
•+2 , -1 (Egalitarian) [+3 sounds better]
•+1 (Democracy or Republic) [+3 sounds better]

 

[Flinx]

May you show some prominent examples for slave riots which justify to worsen them as promised?

I agree that the slave won't be to happy inhis situation.
But since they are not in charge and get punished really hard the thaught of a riot is a calm one.

 

[strategyonly]

Slaves should have more of a penalty imo, they're too powerful as is. Something like this.

Why so harsh?? You know without slaves "back in the day" this world wont be the way it is??

 

[Sgtslick]

Why so harsh?? You know without slaves "back in the day" this world wont be the way it is??

Yes I agree but penalties aren't a bad thing for the game. Having harsh penalties actually adds to the strategy by forcing tough decisions.

 

[Flinx]

Yes I agree but penalties aren't a bad thing for the game. Having harsh penalties actually adds to the strategy by forcing tough decisions.

I'd like rather to see to nerf the benefits of the slave specialists than raising the penalties.
Being a slave and not motivated to do the work does not add to productivity.

 

[strategyonly]

Yes I agree but penalties aren't a bad thing for the game. Having harsh penalties actually adds to the strategy by forcing tough decisions.

I hear ya, its just hard sometimes It is Just a Game.

 

[ls612]

Slaves should have more of a penalty imo, they're too powerful as is. Something like this.

NOTE: Slaves give Crime as well, which is not documeted in those stats.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Slaves should have more of a penalty imo, they're too powerful as is. Something like this.

Thing is, the coding doesn't allow for me adding extra and in for specialists yet. Also, TBird, did you ever get a code out for buildings to affect specialists yields in that city?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I don't see much way that those tags won't be available by this weekend. So far everything seems to be working fine and it's just going to take a bit of time to merge it all in and commit.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Slaves should have more of a penalty imo, they're too powerful as is. Something like this.

In our game, we're finding crime and disease completely unmanageable if the slaves are allowed to be set as the auto-specialist assignment wishes to. They're only barely worth the pains in the arse they bring to the city in crime, unhealth, unhappiness and disease. I disagree that they are too strong as full use of them without going in and purposefully eliminating as many as you can from the specialist lists every round is absolutely lethal to your economy and growth.

 

[Sgtslick]

If you have a city with settled great generals and all the +xp for military and build all your town watchmen out of it, crime is ok. You just need a good enough economy to sustain all the units.


It does piss me off that you are forced to micro manage your cities in this way now, like you were saying thunderbrd. Its particularly annoying because the AI loves them so much it practically starves the cities. Also you pretty much have to go through your cities every turn to make sure they dont' switch back (which they tend to do), its almost worth not getting the slavery thing coz its such a pain in the ass. I wonder if its changed with Koshling making the AI aware of the negative crime on the specialists now.

 

[Thunderbrd]

We'll be testing that later.

I'm able to stay on top of CRIME with very well promoted TW (to the tune of over 10 of them in my capital and I'm still in the Ancient Age) but the disease level is completely uncontrollable since the healers don't have access to any similar promos. Right now that doesn't mean much but it is something to address before we have some very serious disease effects in play.

Also, I noticed that the settled slave (which I love having a lot of) is giving +1 Crime and +2 Disease... not sure why the +2 instead of +1 on Disease there.

Anyhow, I'm not criticizing the system just saying we will really be needing the improved specialist weighting being discussed elsewhere. We've needed it for a long time but now with slaves in play its a must. I definitely feel that slaves are just about right on their stat settings though... a challenging double edged sword.

@Koshling: If you see this... wouldn't the GP pts from the normal specialists count for a lot? THAT is the main reason I would not, as a player, allow my capital to set too many slaves even if I COULD manage the crime and disease levels appropriately and the slaves bring more production and gold than any other option. Losing out on GPs over this choice is ok in most cities but not where I'm trying to pop them out. How much is the AI taking that into consideration here?