C2C - Event Ideas

[ori]

Do you know how to do Quests? Cause i know FfH2 had alot of them, and makes for a fantastic more enhanced game? For those at certain times gets kind of boring at places in the tech tree, just a thought.

I should be able to do them, they are essentially event chains, with some complications thrown in.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Here is a new one for you.

Event - Ali Baba
Req Building: Bandit's Hideout
Req Tech: Trade
Req Era: Classical or Earlier

You find a large cave full gold, gems and valuable items. It must be the legendary cash of Ali Baba.

1. Loot it all! (Get X amount of gold and loose Bandit's Hideout)
2. Take a little of it at a time (+1 from Bandit's Hideout)
3. Take the magic lamp! [Requires Oil Lamps tech] (Leads to Event - Magic Lamp?)

Event - Magic Lamp?
Req Event: 3rd choice in Event - Ali Baba.

You take the "magic" lamp from Ali Baba's stash only to realize its just a normal lamp.

1. Sell Lamp (Get X amount of gold for the lamp)
2. Keep the Lamp as Souvenir (+1 to Palace)
3. Rub the Lamp anyways. (Leads to Event - Rub Lamp)

Event - Rub Lamp
Req Event: 3rd choice in Event - Magic Lamp?

You rub the lamp and an item falls out.

1. You find some gems inside! (Get X amount of gold)
2. You find a map inside! (Reveals unknown tiles on the map) [Req Cartography]
3. You find a scroll inside! (Gives 1 Free tech) [Requires Writing]

 

[ori]

the two event chains seem dooable I'll see where I get to during the week - I won't alter anything until after the new release though. I am also still struggling with getting the fire events to work in a proper manner, any ideas on what to add/change in respect to them?

 

[Hydromancerx]

the two event chains seem dooable I'll see where I get to during the week - I won't alter anything until after the new release though. I am also still struggling with getting the fire events to work in a proper manner, any ideas on what to add/change in respect to them?

I can't seem to find the post explaining what the fire events did. Could you refresh my memory on what the fire events do?

 

[DRJ]

Had some more thoughts about the features I liked to see implemented in the upcoming version and this was the outcome of my brainstorming, I hope all readers of this will also post what they think of the matter and how they would like to see it balanced, If it's possible to implement like I imagined -or a related way with the similar outcome of course.

@Koshling could you maybe make an educated guess how much % additional turntime the related features would consume, if implemented? i guess about +2% maximum but honestly it's a blind guess, I have no idea ;-)


To simulate constant tectonics (like a folding of tectonic plates leads to whole mountain ranges appearing) the events have to be "remembered" - Koshling wrote about this yesterday. It still has to be improved, he explained. Once that's in place, the chance for a hill tile to become a mountain near another new mountain could be higher, and other also "old" mountain ranges would disapear as a whole.
The expansion of mountain ranges could also be stopped by "remembered events" like if lets say 10 tiles in a total of 25 have been triggered, the chance for more to trigger will not increase anymore but decrease significantly.

Regarding GEM + Ice Ages: all of the historically accurate tectonic/climate changes would have to be scripted to each tile/turn in the end, while in the meantime - and on a normal random maps, of course - the (half-random) event/quests described below would have to work:


Feature Tectonics


Event Erosion

0,1% chance per turn for each mountain tile that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 mountains

then the (triggered) mountain tile will turn to hill

...screenshot of a typical tectonic active area that would be the optimal outcome

Spoiler :

Event Birth of Mountains

0,1% chance per turn for each hill tile that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 hill

then the (triggered) hill tile will turn to mountain



->>Lots of more tectonic events possible - any ideas?

EDIT: What you guys think about Vulcanoes appearing in the sea (emerging islands),
higher earthquake risk in rising mountain ranges regions etc?



------------------------------



Feature Ice Ages / Warmth Periods


-> Prehistoric starting date 300.000 BC

3 (or 4?) Iceages

-> last Ice Age ends around 10.000 BC


How to implement?

Game option?


->


Ice Ages maybe coded like for Player invisible Quests/Events?


If certain turn range (like for example turn 100-150 [adjusted by gamespeed]) & chance that quest "ice age 1" is triggered.

Quest length and Quest effects last for X turns. After Ice Age Quest 1 "failed", Warmth Period 1 Quest is triggered.

Next Quest "Ice age 2" is triggered when "Warmth period 1" Quest ends etc. pp.

Players wouldn't directly know when Ice Ages end or Warmth periods start (as the quests could have a little randomizing turn range) and would have to adept to the changing landscapes.

--->To simulate Little Ice Ages effects during warmth periods, maybe some of the Ice Age events could be included in the warmth periods "Quest", just with lower % than during Ice Age?





Possible effects If Ice Age Quest (1./2./3.) triggered:


For example (lots of more possible events like this imagineable, of course the values of radius and the % all adjustable and don't have to be the same for every Event, I just made it so that the idea is understandable):


Event Creatures of the Cold

+% spawning of cold terrain animals (mamoth, cave bear, cave lion, etc.



Event Plains to Tundra

0,1% chance per turn for each plains/grassland/lush etc tile (to latitude X) that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 tundras

then the (triggered) plains/grassland/lush etc. tile will turn to tundra



Event Tundra to Permafrost

0,1% chance per turn for each plains tile (to latitude X) that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 permafrost

then the (triggered) tundra tile will turn to permafrost



Event Permafrost to Ice

0,1% chance per turn for each permafrost tile (to latitude X) that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 permafrost

then the (triggered) tundra tile will turn to ice



Event Glaciers marching forward

0,1% chance per turn for each tundra//mountain tile (to latitude X) that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 glacier (the sea ice graphic)

then the (triggered) tundra tile will turn to glacier



Event Lower Sealevel

0,1% chance per turn for each coast tile that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 coasts

then the (triggered) coast tile will turn to a flat grassland/plains/lush etc. tile

(-> possible bug: sea res on the risen tile would be on the land tile afterwards... could be avoided by excepting coast tiles with res from triggering this event...?)


-------------------------



Possible effects If Warmth Period Quest (1./2./3.) triggered:


Event Thin-Skinned is Beautiful

+% spawning of warm region animals



Event Tundra to Plains

0,1% chance per turn for each tundra tile (to latitude X) that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 Plains

then the (triggered) tundra tile will turn to plains



Event Permafrost to Tundra

0,1% chance per turn for each permafrost tile (to latitude X) that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 tundra

then the (triggered) permafrost tile will turn to tundra



Event Ice to Permafrost

0,1% chance per turn for each ice tile (to latitude X) that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 permafrost

then the (triggered) ice tile will turn to permafrost



Event Higher Sealevel

0,1% chance per turn for each flat tile that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 flat tiles and 5 coasts

then the (triggered) flat tile will turn into coast



Event Smelting Glacier

0,1% chance per turn for each glacier (sea Ice graphics) tile (to latitude YY) that this event is triggered

if in a radius of 16 tiles there are at least 5 tundras

then the (triggered) glacier tile will turn to tundra



Event Rising Earth

A flat tile that had a "smelted glacier" event on it becomes a hill XX turns (thousands of years) later



More ideas for Quests/Events regarding shifting deserts /rainfall and such during iceages/warmth periods are very welcome.

Together with the implementation of nomad camps and the shifting landscapes the prehistoric age would be very much "alive", a lot more than in previous versions... (Effects of the tectonics and ice ages/warmth periods would be much lower once prehistoric era ends, to represent the less years/turn in later eras)
and as long as multiple maps are not available yet the focus might very well lay on this, right?

 

[AIAndy]

@DRJ: The event system is not really suited for that kind of stuff.
And from a gameplay point of view any proper ice age simulation will only work in combination with a nomadic start.

 

[DRJ]

thx for the feedback but come on, couldn't it have been a little more stoked? ;-)

The event system is not really suited for that kind of stuff.

Why is that? Would it increase turn times too much? That's why I asked Koshling how he would estimate the turntime increase. What do you think the increase would be?

And from a gameplay point of view any proper ice age simulation will only work in combination with a nomadic start.

Sure. To quote myself:

Together with the implementation of nomad camps and the shifting landscapes the prehistoric age would be very much "alive", a lot more than in previous versions...

 

[AIAndy]

Why is that? Would it increase turn times too much? That's why I asked Koshling how he would estimate the turntime increase. What do you think the increase would be?

The turntimes are not the problem.
Local events with 0.01% chance will simply not model ice age dynamics well.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DRJ

I think those are all cool ideas. It will really make the planet seem alive.

As for "Plains to Tundra" I think other terrain should turn to Tundra such as Barren terrain.

 

[DRJ]

The turntimes are not the problem.
Local events with 0.01% chance will simply not model ice age dynamics well.

Turntimes no problem? Good to hear! Thought because so many tiles would have to be called/turn to trigger or not...

Ok... lol I posted the 0,01% chance cause as all events during Ice/Warmth/Tectonic go for 1000s of tiles of different terrains/turn so I took the very low number which of course would have to be adepted to game speed/map size.
My thinking went like this: If you have a eternity speed gigantic map of ~1000 tiles of each terrain that can be triggered, with 0,01% each turn one tile each of triggerable terrain would shift (in average: one glacier, tundra permafrost, ice would shift, making it about 5 event-effected tiles per turn [eternity has 15k turns] in half random distance to each other)

Spoiler :

DANG OF COURSE IT HAS TO BE 0,1%, NOT 0,01% FOR ONE TILE/TURN WITH ~1000 TILE OF CERTAIN TERRAIN. MATH, D'OH!

. Ok maybe that's too low for the height of the ice ages and should be increased then, but as I said in the concept post, the numbers shall be discussed, I just wanted to picture a simple mechanic as to possibly feature the Ice Ages quite 'fast & easy'.

@DRJ
I think those are all cool ideas. It will really make the planet seem alive.

Thx!

As for "Plains to Tundra" I think other terrain should turn to Tundra such as Barren terrain.

Absolutely! I was just to lazy to list all the wonderful terrains C2C features, so I left it simple to illustrate the mechanics as I pictured them how it could work.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

IIRC the tectonics map script actually sets up the plates and their direction of movement to get mountains to be built in the correct places etc. It may be a source that can be used for this. Also remember that when ice retreats the land slowly rises - e.g. Scotland is still rising.

 

[Hydromancerx]

IIRC the tectonics map script actually sets up the plates and their direction of movement to get mountains to be built in the correct places etc. It may be a source that can be used for this. Also remember that when ice retreats the land slowly rises - e.g. Scotland is still rising.

That's a good point, glaciers are heavy and will push down terrain. Likewise underground things can push up such as magma chambers oil or natural gas. The land before Mt. St. Hellens bulged before it erupted.

 

[DRJ]

IIRC the tectonics map script actually sets up the plates and their direction of movement to get mountains to be built in the correct places etc. It may be a source that can be used for this.

Interesting, you mean to hardcode it instead of events or to use the map script for the events?

Also remember that when ice retreats the land slowly rises - e.g. Scotland is still rising.

Yes, thats why I have posted the "Smelting Glacier" Event and the follow-up "Rising Land" Event in the Warmth Period. Are you sure you read my concept? - I have to admit it was quite long ;-)

That's a good point, glaciers are heavy and will push down terrain. Likewise underground things can push up such as magma chambers oil or natural gas. The land before Mt. St. Hellens bulged before it erupted.

Yes, res shall be part of this too, like when a volcano erodes, sometimes obsidian can be found.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Glaciers also should heavily erode mountains and hills they "touch", thus leaving huge valleys or even lakes where they were when it warms up. I mean look at the great lakes.

 

[DRJ]

Yes, eroding mountains near lots of glacier*, another possible event

*could that be a new type of terrain like "forest on hill" "glacier on mountain/hill/barren/..."? The sea ice graphics would do well maybe although I have no idea how it would look merged with land tiles. Btw I really would like to see another new graphic: upper volcano (magma) +volcano smoke merged with forest hill plains
for the burning forest hill ranges... is there a thread for graphic requests?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Interesting, you mean to hardcode it instead of events or to use the map script for the events?

Not necessarily is could just be a set of properties on the plot, rising at 2% a year for example.

Yes, thats why I have posted the "Smelting Glacier" Event and the follow-up "Rising Land" Event in the Warmth Period. Are you sure you read my concept? - I have to admit it was quite long ;-)

And I am allergic to something so I keep sneezing so I did probably miss it.

 

[DRJ]

Not necessarily is could just be a set of properties on the plot, rising at 2% a year for example.

Yes, but how could the % properties on the plot be adjusted to the changes ice ages and warmth periods bring after certain amounts of turns? I guess you have a way better way to realize that in mind than what my simple non-coder brain tried to showcase via the event/quest examples.

And I am allergic to something so I keep sneezing so I did probably miss it.

As we germans tend to say: Gesundheit! And yes, I know how you feel, I am allergic in springtime, too. Not necessarily to everything springtime offers, though.

 

[Koshling]

The new properties system would be a better foundation for this since it allows values to propagate between toes, which would provide for local modeling and spreading via some sort of customized propagators. Ideally the property system to model some underlying forces, coupled With property-triggered events to translate them to substantive effects.

Turn times wouldn't be an issue.

Implementation ally it might be quite complex however.

My personal view is:

• Tectonics are not sensible to model in the game (except in map generation) because the operational time scale is wrong (millions of years vs thousands for the game)
• Ice age modeling does make sense, and as mentioned above I think the property system could be used in interesting ways for climate modelling
• things like pollution spread might also be modeled in a similar manner

 

[DRJ]

The new properties system would be a better foundation for this since it allows values to propagate between toes, which would provide for local modeling and spreading via some sort of customized propagators. Ideally the property system to model some underlying forces, coupled With property-triggered events to translate them to substantive effects.

Quote of the day^^ Gonna read it another 10 times to get a glimpse of how you think, but gosh, it's good to know that such coding is possible and I am really thankful for your idea which I never would have been able to anticipate

Turn times wouldn't be an issue.

Nice, just thought if every tile has to be checked for several possible events in each turn, at least at gigantic maps that would add up.

Implementation ally it might be quite complex however.

As your quote of the day wonderfully shows^^

My personal view is:

• Tectonics are not sensible to model in the game (except in map generation) because the operational time scale is wrong (millions of years vs thousands for the game)

I disagree. There are very active tectonic processes during the last lets say 300000 years, think of the San-Andreas-trench - or the mediteranean which had massive earthquakes during the time of the Minoans and Hitties (and still, today) - those tectonic processes led to massive migration waves, shaping the whole eastern mediteranean (sea people) -- simulating the effects of tectonic trenches or supervulcanoes lowering of earths temperature (maybe a new value like latitude?) could be part of tectonics feature - and evener gamewise, as large empires tend to have more land that in average will be effected more frequently than the little land of small empires.
So, yes, there are tectonic processes that are happening but you're right - the rising/eroding mountains, thats not really happening in this timeframe. Nevertheless the rising of land that has been under thick ice during iceages is within the timeframe of a few thousand years.

• Ice age modeling does make sense, and as mentioned above I think the property system could be used in interesting ways for climate modelling
• things like pollution spread might also be modeled in a similar manner

I would like to help with that as much as I can. Sadly I have absolutely no idea how to code but I could do the repetetive stuff if I get an example how to (and thus learn it by doing).

 

[Hydromancerx]

• things like pollution spread might also be modeled in a similar manner

Well on my todo list I want to at some point add Air Pollution and Water Pollution to the property system. Any ideas and/or help would be great. So far all I can think of is some buildings producing either pollution and thus causing some unhealthiness effects (ex. Smog, Acid Rain, Toxic Water, etc).